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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 02:22:38 PM

Title: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 02:22:38 PM
All the yapping about the offense, all the "this is a HS offense", all the "horrible play calling", y'all are missing the bigger issue IMHO.  It's always bad play calling when it doesn't work...and I'm not saying it's all good, but it's not the real issue IMHO. 

First off, the only stats that matter:  3-0 overall, 1-0 in the SEC. 

In a game where the offense appeared to be horrible and inept at times, and the play-calling questionable, we managed to rack up 424 yards of total offense.  That on just 61 offensive plays...or about 75% of the number of plays Malzahn wants to run.  Recall that a bad day on offense under the Tubs regime could easily be half that yardage, and half the points.  The worst day Newton has had so far, he still was 50% passing, and threw 2 TDs, in spite of 2 INTs, and averaged a very good 14.5 yards per attempt.  McCaleb and Dyer combined for 151 yds on 26 Att.  5.8 ypa.  That's quite solid. Cam added 68 yds on 17 Att. for 4.0 ypa.  Again, solid.  We ran the ball 47 times compared to 14 passes, which IMHO, accounts for much of the "ugliness" of the offense.  We didn't think we'd see this type of offense out of "the spread".   The WHY of that may be the root issue.  Not real trust in Cam?  No trust in our Def.?  No confidence that our OL can protect?  I find it hard to buy that Malzahn just suddenly went all conservative. 

On a night where the Clemson Off. appeared good, and ours bad, we were still more efficient.  More points 27-24, more total yards 424-414, Auburn avg'd 6.9 yards per play vs Clemson's 5.0 yards per play, better yards per attempt rushing average 4.7 to 4.0, better yards per attempt passing avg 14.5 to 6.5.    In every aspect we were better on offense despite appearances, except:  Turnovers: AU 2-Clem. 0, another big one in Penalties (not all on off.): AU 9-90 Clem. 5-50.  They had the ball nearly 10 more minutes than we did, but IMHO, that's all but meaningless.  Another biggie...3rd down efficiency:  We were just 5 of 13, and that is NOT a meaningless stat.  That's bad!  Not horrible, but not good.  The better teams will be at 45-50%, and Clemson isn't a great defense.  Fortunately, Clemson was worse at 6 of 16.  The Penalties have GOT to stop, and we've got to have better 3rd down efficiency, and of course no turnovers.  IMHO, our problem isn't scheme, or play-calling, it's executing in critical areas like on 3rd down, and lack of discipline causing penalties.  A good SEC Def. will kill us if we don't fix those two things. 

I feel...IMHO, that Chiz has told Malzahn that we can't have our defense on the field all the time like last year...even though we did last night, at least in the first half, and that is contributing a lot to what folks think is bad play calling.  I also think that, though Cam isn't horrible passing, he is more likely to throw an INT than Todd was, AND he has the ability to get a first down with his legs where Todd didn't...I think this too is contributing to appears to be conservative play calling. 

Where we are bad, is on Def. in that we allow teams to get outside on us.  I don't know much about Def. Scheme, and you can say Bynes was a monster last night, but our overall LB play isn't good, and we're getting beat to the edge over and over, whether by the run, or the little screen/flare pass.

USCe, and Lattimore will eat us alive if we don't keep him contained to the inside.  We stand a chance IF we don't let Lattimore get loose to the outside.  I fear that we can't, but hope we can. 

I submit that when we lose, and it's coming, most likely this next Sat. if things aren't fixed, it will be because our defense can't contain, not because our offense can't score or move the ball.  If we turn the ball over 2 times against SC, we'll lose by two TDs.     
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: The Prowler on September 19, 2010, 03:54:12 PM
My thoughts exactly.

On the giving up the Off Tackle runs/sweeps and the screens, watch the OLBers (first year player in Darren Bates, Eltoro and a rusty Craig Stevens) they're getting washed in by the Tackles, TEs and the Crackback WRs.  It looks to me like their eyes are too fixed in the backfield causing their heads to not be on the needed swivel.

Clemson's D, as a whole isn't great.  Their Defensive Line is great and can/will dominate games (Dequan Bowers is an absolute Stud Kat).  It also doesn't hurt when they're going up against lineman that play patty-cake on some running plays, like AJ Greene seems to do.  Prayers have been sent out to AJ, but with all due respect, he fuckin' played HORRIBLE last night and not all of it was due to Bowers, a lot of it was because of him not playing worth a damn.

We could've ran the screen to AJ Greene's side and the DE would've never seen it coming.  If anyone thinks I'm wrong...go back and watch the replay, watch the plays that were blown up in the backfield, 95% of the time, it's AJ Greene's man.  Now again, Bowers is a fuckin' stud, but it's easier to fuck shit up when you don't get blocked and the RB runs right at you.

As for Cam, he's having trouble deciding on when to loft it and when to drill it, he's not doing it quick enough and by the time he lofts it to the WR, the Safety has the jump on the ball.  Also the clock in his head is out of wack, that is due to the defensive alignment shifts, the different things they're doing to mirror our shifting offense and not being entirely comfortable in our offense.  That'll come and when it does, watch out.  Cam also likes to eyeball his receivers at times, combine that with his indecisiveness to put touch on the ball or to drill it and you're looking at INTs.

We're Undefeated, right now, with things that we still need to iron out.  We've faced adversity twice and came with wins in both of those tests.

This game was fuckin' Huge as far as momentum goes, setting up the USCe/AU game to be a very big game.  You'll be hard pressed to find voters picking Auburn over USCe, and those voters will be wrong in their pick...which will make a win over USCe that much more impressive.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Token on September 19, 2010, 04:02:48 PM
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team. 

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 04:14:11 PM
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team.

I tried to make sure that didn't come across as me saying there's nothing wrong with the offense.  It is very inconsistent.  Fact is, though, that is rarely about scheme, as much as it is about execution.   By way of example.  Bammer aint surprising anybody by running the zone play, or the play action off of it...try to stop it!  Nothing fancy about it...it's run at every level.  And, McElwane has even consulted extensively with the Nevada coach and his "gimmicky pistol/WAC Offense".  Still, they're strong offensively.   

I think Malzahn is struggling in two areas.  Trying to conform to Chiz's wishes about keeping the Defense off the field, and trying to adjust to the new type of talent we have at QB.  Much the same as Meyer is struggling to adjust to having a pure passer at QB, Malzahn is struggling with having the dual threat QB, and not having an established "carry the mail" type RB like Tate.  In a way, he may be overwhelmed by choices, and that may be causing them to waste valuable practice time finding who they are, rather than perfecting who they are.  In the end, the offense is Malzahn's baby, and he better figure out how to make it more consistent. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 04:31:27 PM
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team.
We're all just still waiting on you to let the cat out of the bag on this whole uniform deal.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 04:42:39 PM
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.

I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: The Prowler on September 19, 2010, 04:49:23 PM
Exactly, Auburn is fuckin' loaded with dynamic athletes all over the field, so much so, we're getting ourselves out of sync trying to get the ball to all of our playmakers....in short, we have to many Ballers.

It all starts up front, if you have a crack in the line, it's the same as having a crack in the Dam's wall...it better get patched STAT, or it'll get really ugly.  Big John Sullen (Sophmore) could be that patch as Roszell gets that knee completely healed and gets more comfortable in the offense.

Thanks goes out to Coach Tuberville and Co. for not bringing in a OLineman at all, or worth a fuck, after the Pugh/Ziemba/Chaz class.  Now that Greene is done, we've got a former Guard in Soph. John Sullen, a JUCO Roszell Gayden (knee surgery in the offseason) and JUCO Brandon Mosley (TE being converted to Tackle).
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Token on September 19, 2010, 04:50:16 PM
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.



I don't remember seeing Fannin run the ball last night, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Quote
I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?

Quote
Individual Passing Leaders
RK    Name    Team    COMP    ATT    PCT    YDS    AVG    TD    INT    SCK    SCK/YDS    RATING
1     Greg McElroy     Alabama    43    60    71.7    705    11.8    6    1    4    -12    200.0
2     Dan Persa     Northwestern    62    76    81.6    769    10.1    6    0    6    -43    192.6
3     Andrew Luck     Stanford    45    70    64.3    674    9.6    10    0    1    -8    192.3
4     Cameron Newton     Auburn    27    47    57.4    525    11.2    7    3    5    -34    187.7
5     Ryan Mallett     Arkansas    70    100    70.0    1081    10.8    9    2    4    -14    186.5
6     Brandon Weeden     Oklahoma State    74    101    73.3    975    9.7    11    2    3    0    186.3
7     Mike Hartline     Kentucky    54    75    72.0    680    9.1    5    0    1    -3    170.2
8     Ben Chappell     Indiana    48    65    73.8    548    8.4    5    0    1    -8    170.1
9     Ricky Stanzi     Iowa    47    74    63.5    711    9.6    6    1    9    -68    168.3

Just sayin.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 04:53:44 PM
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.

I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?
I don't remember seeing Fannin run the ball last night, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Just sayin.

Fannin never touched the ball, one more reason that assessment fails.  Another is this regarding Cam not being a good passer at all:  http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-ind-passing-efficiency.html
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 04:59:13 PM
Another thing...and again, not saying there aren't things to be fixed, but I keep hearing about "Cam up the middle", and "Dyer up the middle", and yet, this is the net result thru 3 games:

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-rushing-offense.html

Rank   Name   Games   Carries   Net   Avg.   TDs   Ydspg   Wins   Losses   Ties
1   Air Force   3   189   1197   6.33   14   399.00   2   1   0
2   Oregon   3   165   1142   6.92   12   380.67   3   0   0
3   Georgia Tech   3   171   1035   6.05   10   345.00   2   1   0
4   Nebraska   3   128   1032   8.06   15   344.00   3   0   0
5   Nevada   3   139   906   6.52   13   302.00   3   0   0
6   Michigan   3   144   859   5.97   10   286.33   3   0   0
7   Wake Forest   3   156   851   5.46   12   283.67   2   1   0
7   Army   3   176   851   4.84   11   283.67   2   1   0
9   TCU   3   143   839   5.87   14   279.67   3   0   0
10   Navy   3   176   818   4.65   7   272.67   2   1   0
11   Kansas St.   3   139   781   5.62   10   260.33   3   0   0
12   Auburn   3   142   778   5.48   5   259.33   3   0   0
13   Alabama   3   110   752   6.84   9   250.67   3   0   0
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
Fannin never touched the ball, one more reason that assessment fails.  Another is this regarding Cam not being a good passer at all:  http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-ind-passing-efficiency.html
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer. Saw quite a few throws last night where it was simply lofted up in the air downfield with the hopes that Adams would come down with it. Are you trying to tell me you are 200% confident that if AU finds a team that contains Newton in the pocket, that he can win it with his arm? I just don't think it will happen. Throw out all the stats you want. He looked human against MSU, and for the most part bad last night. I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 05:16:57 PM
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer. Saw quite a few throws last night where it was simply lofted up in the air downfield with the hopes that Adams would come down with it. Are you trying to tell me you are 200% confident that if AU finds a team that contains Newton in the pocket, that he can win it with his arm? I just don't think it will happen. Throw out all the stats you want. He looked human against MSU, and for the most part bad last night. I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.

Fail.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 05:25:40 PM
You see when Token criticizes and I criticize,  there is a similarity because I didn't attend Auburn and I wasn't spawned in the Dye, Bowden Tubs era. There is a different perspective from an old school sidewalk Auburn fan that learned football the Bryant way and a Bo Jackson era until 6 straight we are on equal footing Auburn fan.

I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm not elevating or denigrating either perspective but Auburn is a top fifteen program year in and year out and the results show that we need to learn how to FINISH. Hell, last night we forgot how to start! And that is the major difference between us and our neighbor to the northwest. They have a history of FINISHING while we have a history of being very competitive.

It doesn't change how I feel about Auburn. I've seen Sullivan bomb. I've seen the great Bo Jackson take himself out of a game. I've seen Miss.St. beat us three times , IN AUBURN! I went thru eleven straight. UT Coach Bill Battle punted to Shug's team on third down, numerous times in an effort to rub it in. My point is this: We have the opportunity on the big stage to perform and we get cold feet or opening jitters.This team has twenty four seniors, the most of any Auburn team ever.

 It might be unrealistic, but I was expecting better results with the influx of talent and if anyone reads my posts; although I am critical, I still have a positive take on our remaining schedule regardless of our shortcomings as a team because I know that every team on the schedule is beatable, pretty, ugly or otherwise.

We have squeaked by two opponents as Token mentioned but we have to learn to come out of the gates, sustain momentum, and FINISH! I don't give a rat's ass about which team wins the statistics "battle". I'm just an ordinary fan, and a bottom line guy.

I'm no expert or coach,  only I have seen us do more with less in the past. And IMO, the offense needs to keep striving for full throttle while the defense needs to make the necessary adjustments instead of dragging both down. The offense isn't broke unless we try to fix it.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 05:30:06 PM
What you said was:

Quote
but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all

After being shown that's wholly inaccurate, you respond in very childlike form with:
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer.

 I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.


I would, on the whole, agree with "isn't that great of a passer".

I don't agree with passing being lofted up with a prayer.  But have your take if you want. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 05:51:29 PM
Cam Newton is the most dynamic dual threat college quarterback to ever play in this state. He has an extremely strong arm and a very good touch on the ball. He is not your standard  dropback passer and I'm pretty sure DC's only wish our big QB was more one dimensional.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 05:56:27 PM
Cam Newton is potentially the most dynamic dual threat college quarterback to ever play in this state. He has an extremely strong arm and a very good fair touch on the ball. He is not your standard  dropback passer and I'm pretty sure DC's only wish our big QB was more one dimensional.

FTFY
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: The Prowler on September 19, 2010, 06:08:47 PM
keep talking shit SPuat fans, just remember what you've said, then after the Iron Bowl, we'll rehash it all out.  Y'all just need to worry about Arkansas' RBs, remember they roll 17 Deep at that position.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 06:28:06 PM
FTFY
Yeah, I normally stray from absolutes and superlatives when describing individuals. I stand corrected but I like our chances with him.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 06:34:44 PM
Yeah, I normally stray from absolutes and superlatives when describing individuals. I stand corrected but I like our chances with him.

He has a lot of upside.  He's been better than I thought thus far.  Its hard to get in to such absolutes and superlatives 3 games in to his Auburn career though.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
He has a lot of upside.  He's been better than I thought thus far.  Its hard to get in to such absolutes and superlatives 3 games in to his Auburn career though.
Replay is on now if interested.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 06:41:17 PM
Replay is on now if interested.

Watching....growing more disgusted with our LB play.  DEs not so hot at times either. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on September 19, 2010, 06:43:01 PM
Geez, you'd think Cam was only playing in his third full speed college football ga....oh wait...nevermind.

Give him a little time on the learning curve.  In fact, enjoy the winning stat line as he continues to improve, or learn.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 07:01:31 PM
Geez, you'd think Cam was only playing in his third full speed college football ga....oh wait...nevermind.

Give him a little time on the learning curve.  In fact, enjoy the winning stat line as he continues to improve, or learn.
I thought one of the great things about him was going to be that he was Tebow's backup at one time, so he had to be uber elite? And since he took his JUCO team to their NC, he kept that eliteness? Bottom line, there were very lofty expectations put on him by some AU fans before he ever took his first snap for AU. I think the jury is still out. Some people told some of you there would be a learning curve, and that the majority of the time a new starting QB won't take a team to the promised land, because of that curve. Especially in the SEC. I know Chizad decided to mock one of those people (Kaos), and he is showing that in his signature. I'm not going to hold you to what Chizad or others might have said, but I'm pretty sure you were all in the Cam-wagon this summer. Seems some folks are backing up a little now and realizing the curve.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 07:02:55 PM
Geez, you'd think Cam was only playing in his third full speed college football ga....oh wait...nevermind.

Give him a little time on the learning curve.  In fact, enjoy the winning stat line as he continues to improve, or learn.
And he got after some folks on the sideline which I note because we haven't had a guy this firey  actually displaying  his frustrations so openly. I think it's a good sign as long as he doesn't have to do it each Saturday.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 07:09:37 PM
I thought one of the great things about him was going to be that he was Tebow's backup at one time, so he had to be uber elite? And since he took his JUCO team to their NC, he kept that eliteness? Bottom line, there were very lofty expectations put on him by some AU fans before he ever took his first snap for AU. I think the jury is still out. Some people told some of you there would be a learning curve, and that the majority of the time a new starting QB won't take a team to the promised land, because of that curve. Especially in the SEC. I know Chizad decided to mock one of those people (Kaos), and he is showing that in his signature. I'm not going to hold you to what Chizad or others might have said, but I'm pretty sure you were all in the Cam-wagon this summer. Seems some folks are backing up a little now and realizing the curve.

If one were reading your post, having not seen any games, they'd think he's been a complete and total flop.  Neither extreme is the case, and he shows signs of the greatness more than he shows signs of being a complete flop.  In fact, Id say if he never improved, he'd be a better than avg QB.   
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 07:10:02 PM
keep talking shit SPuat fans, just remember what you've said, then after the Iron Bowl, we'll rehash it all out.  Y'all just need to worry about Arkansas' RBs, remember they roll 17 Deep at that position.
If you haven't noticed, Alabama hasn't had any problem kicking the piss out of Arkansas the past few years.

Hey, I hear Arkansas is going to be wearing some alternate uniforms on Saturday. What do your inside sources say?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
There's a curve but I doubt many OC's would turn this guy away  based on his entire body of work thus far.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on September 19, 2010, 07:20:20 PM
If you haven't noticed, Alabama hasn't had any problem kicking the piss out of Arkansas the past few years.

Hey, I hear Arkansas is going to be wearing some alternate uniforms on Saturday. What do your inside sources say?

Let me say that I believe Alabama will win the game. 

Now... With that said, it's a better and more confident Arkansas team this year.  What you did versus teams in the last few years doesn't mean SHIT.  Nothing.  Nada. 

Secondly, I think Prowler's RB statement was said tongue in cheek in reference to some of our hog friend's recruiting assertions when it comes to their depth at QB and RB's.

You're (Alabama that is, shit knows you won't be anywhere to be found at the game) not sneaking up on anyone, and will get their best effort.  I think it'll be a good ball game and you'll have to score plenty to secure it.  Petrino and Mallet are competent enough (in my opinion) to move the ball to some degree.

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 19, 2010, 07:35:58 PM
Let me say that I believe Alabama will win the game. 

Now... With that said, it's a better and more confident Arkansas team this year.  What you did versus teams in the last few years doesn't mean SHIT.  Nothing.  Nada. 

Secondly, I think Prowler's RB statement was said tongue in cheek in reference to some of our hog friend's recruiting assertions when it comes to their depth at QB and RB's.

You're (Alabama that is, shit knows you won't be anywhere to be found at the game) not sneaking up on anyone, and will get their best effort.  I think it'll be a good ball game and you'll have to score plenty to secure it.  Petrino and Mallet are competent enough (in my opinion) to move the ball to some degree.
I think the matchup goes beyond a "competent Mallett/Petrino" sort of thing. I don't know if you have watched the two previous meetings, but it has been utter annihilation. I think scheme-wise, we have their number. We simply do the right things at the right times, and we seem to score plenty on them anyway. You just poo-pooing away what we have done to Arky the past two years makes total sense when talking about this year in this case.
 
And no, I won't be driving to Arkansas for the game.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 07:45:28 PM
There was an effort last week to try and compare Lattimore to Dyer by our Arky friend. This week is devoted to Newton There must be a pattern here but I don't share their superior powers of observation. I'm working with a curve, give me a break.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: 280TIGER on September 19, 2010, 08:55:33 PM
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer. Saw quite a few throws last night where it was simply lofted up in the air downfield with the hopes that Adams would come down with it. Are you trying to tell me you are 200% confident that if AU finds a team that contains Newton in the pocket, that he can win it with his arm? I just don't think it will happen. Throw out all the stats you want. He looked human against MSU, and for the most part bad last night. I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.

Man, bammers sure are worried about Cam.  That is all the white-trash nation can talk about today is Cam this, Cam that.  Too bad they are all slinging burgers or doing road work, cause they all sound like they would have been excellent coaches.  Maybe they are jealous of Cam's size and agility, or maybe it is because they know their wives want to suck his big horse dick?  Who knows...

Seems like they would be more worried about a coach that ridicules them for booing the visiting team, but chooses to throw 50 yard bombs on first down when his team is up 30 or 40 points on a high school team, in a high school stadium.  Nothin' like that rammer jammer class...  Can't wait for a Prothro incident to happen in this situation and watch the fallout.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 09:05:43 PM
Very poignant post 280.
Keep 'em comin'
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Token on September 19, 2010, 09:34:12 PM
Man, bammers sure are worried about Cam.  That is all the white-trash nation can talk about today is Cam this, Cam that.  Too bad they are all slinging burgers or doing road work, cause they all sound like they would have been excellent coaches.  Maybe they are jealous of Cam's size and agility, or maybe it is because they know their wives want to suck his big horse dick?  Who knows...

Seems like they would be more worried about a coach that ridicules them for booing the visiting team, but chooses to throw 50 yard bombs on first down when his team is up 30 or 40 points on a high school team, in a high school stadium.  Nothin' like that rammer jammer class...  Can't wait for a Prothro incident to happen in this situation and watch the fallout.

Let me guess how you know he has a big horse dick.  You gave a book of sticky notes to the team physician?

And someone doesn't remember Cam connecting on a 40 yard touchdown pass against Arkansas State halfway through the 3rd quarter.   
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: DnATL on September 19, 2010, 09:46:48 PM
Let me guess how you know he has a big horse dick.  You gave a book of sticky notes to the team physician?
forget little notes - he can make a whole trapper keeper sticky
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 09:52:38 PM
forget little notes - he can make a whole trapper keeper sticky
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/johnofbham/assorted/thz29483524.gif)


Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Pell City Tiger on September 19, 2010, 10:02:26 PM
Let me guess how you know he has a big horse dick.  You gave a book of sticky notes to the team physician.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g242/glenn1964/ohsnap.gif)
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on September 19, 2010, 10:11:44 PM
I'll weigh- in with my armchair analysis.

What bothers me, is where were the swing passes? the bubble screens?  Shit, where are the slant patterns, the hooks.  It seems to me that we don't throw anything short and let our talented playmakers do their thing.  We did the swing passes and screens against MSU, but they were non existent against Clemson.  I don't think I have seen a slant pattern all season long, what about a ten yard up and in rout?

It just seems to me that the play calling is run....run...40 yard bomb.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: 280TIGER on September 19, 2010, 10:23:02 PM
Let me guess how you know he has a big horse dick.  You gave a book of sticky notes to the team physician?

And someone doesn't remember Cam connecting on a 40 yard touchdown pass against Arkansas State halfway through the 3rd quarter.

However you want to justify it...  Just don't boo San Jose State next time, aaaiiittt....
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 19, 2010, 10:25:19 PM
This is my opinion and I'm sticking with it dammit.

http://www.tigersx.com/forum/war_damn_eagle/thoughts_week_3_10618.0.html
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on September 19, 2010, 10:31:08 PM
I think the matchup goes beyond a "competent Mallett/Petrino" sort of thing. I don't know if you have watched the two previous meetings, but it has been utter annihilation. I think scheme-wise, we have their number. We simply do the right things at the right times, and we seem to score plenty on them anyway. You just poo-pooing away what we have done to Arky the past two years makes total sense when talking about this year in this case.

"poo-pooing" away?  What?  Okay.  So what are you saying?  That you're getting the band back together for one more game?  Call back the 2009 team.  We got another one to play in Fayetteville.

Gotcha.   

I'm not dismissing anything.  I even said that I believe Alabama will win the game... However, it's a new year and I think that Petrino and Mallet have proven to be better than average.  If that's proven incorrect, and they look utterly unprepared for the total awesomeness that you have pre-ordained because of years past, then I guess you can thump your chest from behind the keyboard I guess.
 
Quote
And no, I won't be driving to Arkansas for the game.

No shit.  You won't drive across you're own fucking city to watch a game.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 19, 2010, 10:38:29 PM
I'll weigh- in with my armchair analysis.

What bothers me, is where were the swing passes? the bubble screens?  Shit, where are the slant patterns, the hooks.  It seems to me that we don't throw anything short and let our talented playmakers do their thing.  We did the swing passes and screens against MSU, but they were non existent against Clemson.  I don't think I have seen a slant pattern all season long, what about a ten yard up and in rout?

It just seems to me that the play calling is run....run...40 yard bomb.

You're right, we don't run much "quick game".  It's really not a big part of the repertoire.  Screens...true screens, are not a big part either.  Malzahn has a version of Stick he occasionally runs (a staple in Air Raid/Leach/Franklin offenses, and in fact one of the hip trendy pass plays these days at all levels of football), and a slant/flat combo I've seen a few times this season.   The screens you see, are most often bubbles run as part of the veer option...used instead of a pitch option.  Practice time, or the lack of dictates that you can only do so much.  And you need to be doing things that compliment each other, not a hodgepodge.  We are a run to set up the P/A pass team.  P/A passing, timing wise is necessarily the deeper routes, or crossing routes that take some time to develop.  Short passing plays just aren't part of what he does, or chooses to spend practice time on.  You can only get GOOD at so many things with the time they have.  The NFL and unlimited practice times, means you can have a completely different personality each week.  Can't do that in college.  I had the same complaint last year too BTW...but that's why it is.   
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AUChizad on September 19, 2010, 10:39:01 PM
I thought one of the great things about him was going to be that he was Tebow's backup at one time, so he had to be uber elite? And since he took his JUCO team to their NC, he kept that eliteness? Bottom line, there were very lofty expectations put on him by some AU fans before he ever took his first snap for AU. I think the jury is still out. Some people told some of you there would be a learning curve, and that the majority of the time a new starting QB won't take a team to the promised land, because of that curve. Especially in the SEC. I know Chizad decided to mock one of those people (Kaos), and he is showing that in his signature. I'm not going to hold you to what Chizad or others might have said, but I'm pretty sure you were all in the Cam-wagon this summer. Seems some folks are backing up a little now and realizing the curve.
You are such a sopping douche.

First of all, all of those advantages of Cam's you're referencing were brought ip in the context of pointing out that many are crowning Brantley the king of the SEC and placing him on the Heisman watch list, while maintaining that Newton is "untested". This even came with a disclaimer that this by no means Cam was going to be the greatest of all time, just that both could equally have been busts or badasses, but Cam should have the edge if anything. I don't know about you, but I'd take Newton over Brantley seven days of the week, and twice on Saturday.

This also was not meant to support any claim that Auburn is a shoe-in to win a National Championship because Cam is on the roster. Kaos, if you want to bring him up, was 100% certain that Auburn would have a losing season last year, and then regress this year. To suggest the mere possibility of any other scenario was pure ignorance.

As it stands, Auburn is 3-0. Cam is far from a bust.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: jmar on September 19, 2010, 10:47:24 PM
I'll weigh- in with my armchair analysis.

What bothers me, is where were the swing passes? the bubble screens?  poop, where are the slant patterns, the hooks.  It seems to me that we don't throw anything short and let our talented playmakers do their thing.  We did the swing passes and screens against MSU, but they were non existent against Clemson.  I don't think I have seen a slant pattern all season long, what about a ten yard up and in rout?

It just seems to me that the play calling is run....run...40 yard bomb.
I'll weigh- in with my armchair analysis.

What bothers me, is where were the swing passes? the bubble screens?  poop, where are the slant patterns, the hooks.  It seems to me that we don't throw anything short and let our talented playmakers do their thing.  We did the swing passes and screens against MSU, but they were non existent against Clemson.  I don't think I have seen a slant pattern all season long, what about a ten yard up and in rout?

It just seems to me that the play calling is run....run...40 yard bomb.
Apparently, that's how we roll.
I'm sorry but we have a blueprint here and a standard that doesn't include questioning our resident genius.
That wiill be all.
Thank you  for coming.


Seriously though. this bothers me as well.
It's great to go vertical but I want some variety.
And our QB needs short to intermediate passes to get some rythym.  Learned that from Dr. Lou. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 19, 2010, 10:49:42 PM
Cam

I just wanted to say, I saw several of your "Yes We Cam" boards right behind the ROTC section all night.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 07:10:48 AM
"poo-pooing" away?  What?  Okay.  So what are you saying?  That you're getting the band back together for one more game?  Call back the 2009 team.  We got another one to play in Fayetteville.

Gotcha.   

I'm not dismissing anything.  I even said that I believe Alabama will win the game... However, it's a new year and I think that Petrino and Mallet have proven to be better than average.  If that's proven incorrect, and they look utterly unprepared for the total awesomeness that you have pre-ordained because of years past, then I guess you can thump your chest from behind the keyboard I guess.
 
No shit.  You won't drive across you're own fucking city to watch a game.
All I'm saying is the past two seasons, we have kicked the piss out of Arkansas, no matter who we have on the field. And that's with emptying out the benches starting after halftime. There is a reason for it. If you had watched the manner in which it was done the past two times times, it goes beyond the matchup on the field. I think we have them figured out scheme-wise, and I think we prepare well for them. I mean, when AU was running up the streak on Alabama, you guys felt pretty fucking confident that it was going to be a yearly thing right around game 3, did you not? Some teams just traditionally beat each other teams. I think, for the forseeable future, Arkansas will fall into that category for Alabama. That's just my opinion, though. I don't really get into the habit of just throwing an "Alabama is going to beat the piss out of this or that team" very often, but I think a pattern may form.

Oh, and last I checked, BDS is on the other end of the state from me.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Saniflush on September 20, 2010, 07:14:35 AM
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team.


We have some unholy ass rapings coming our way in the near future if shit does not change.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 07:26:19 AM
You are such a sopping douche.

First of all, all of those advantages of Cam's you're referencing were brought ip in the context of pointing out that many are crowning Brantley the king of the SEC and placing him on the Heisman watch list, while maintaining that Newton is "untested". This even came with a disclaimer that this by no means Cam was going to be the greatest of all time, just that both could equally have been busts or badasses, but Cam should have the edge if anything. I don't know about you, but I'd take Newton over Brantley seven days of the week, and twice on Saturday.
And like most here said, placing the crown on any new starting QB is just stupid. I haven't really seen Brantley play, so I couldn't tell you. Cam has alot of room for improvement. And that's fine; he IS a new starting QB in the SEC. He has plenty of time to improve. Even though I think there are some glaring issues, that doesn't mean they can't or won't be fixed. But in all fairness, you were one of the ones that seem to have crowned Newton pre-season, so I can't see why you would get upset at others crowning Brantley as something he's not.

Bottom line is if Newton doesn't start improving, and quick, shit is going to hit the fan later in the season. Run, run, run, lob it halfway down the field isn't going to work in every game.

Quote
This also was not meant to support any claim that Auburn is a shoe-in to win a National Championship because Cam is on the roster. Kaos, if you want to bring him up, was 100% certain that Auburn would have a losing season last year, and then regress this year. To suggest the mere possibility of any other scenario was pure ignorance.

As it stands, Auburn is 3-0. Cam is far from a bust.
Kaos' simple point was to be cautious, because breaking in a new starting QB in the SEC usually doesn't go all that well. It certainly doesn't usually produce a championship season. I believe a point was made that it has been a long time since a new starting QB has came into the SEC and just lit the world on fire. I think even longer since a JUCO QB has came in and done it, but that could possibly just be because you don't see many JUCO QBs transfering in? Not sure.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AUChizad on September 20, 2010, 08:19:52 AM
Kaos' simple point was to be cautious, because breaking in a new starting QB in the SEC usually doesn't go all that well. It certainly doesn't usually produce a championship season. I believe a point was made that it has been a long time since a new starting QB has came into the SEC and just lit the world on fire. I think even longer since a JUCO QB has came in and done it, but that could possibly just be because you don't see many JUCO QBs transfering in? Not sure.
How has your QB worked out for you? How was his first season?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 08:36:43 AM
How has your QB worked out for you? How was his first season?
Totally the exception, and not the rule. That shit just does not happen year in and year out in the SEC. For that matter, I don't think McElroy "lit the world on fire" either. He did well relative to new starting QBs in the SEC, and had a great supporting cast around him. Having a Heisman winner in the backfield doesn't really hurt, nor does having a back behind that guy that could be mentioned in the same conversation.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Saniflush on September 20, 2010, 08:40:34 AM
How has your QB worked out for you? How was his first season?

McElroy HAD to win one game for them last year.  The Auburn game.  To my knowledge we were the only ones that took away their running game the entire year. 

We are up to this point asking Newton to do a hell of a lot more than McElroy was asked to do last year.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 08:50:17 AM
McElroy HAD to win one game for them last year.  The Auburn game.  To my knowledge we were the only ones that took away their running game the entire year. 

We are up to this point asking Newton to do a hell of a lot more than McElroy was asked to do last year.
For that matter, it helps when you're throwing it to a guy who will likely go in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft after this season, and protected by a very good OL. Again, that's where your supporting cast comes into play. When you have alot of weapons, they can make a middle of the road guy look like a worldbeater. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on September 20, 2010, 09:03:05 AM
All I'm saying is the past two seasons, we have kicked the piss out of Arkansas, no matter who we have on the field. And that's with emptying out the benches starting after halftime. There is a reason for it. If you had watched the manner in which it was done the past two times times, it goes beyond the matchup on the field. I think we have them figured out scheme-wise, and I think we prepare well for them. I mean, when AU was running up the streak on Alabama, you guys felt pretty fucking confident that it was going to be a yearly thing right around game 3, did you not? Some teams just traditionally beat each other teams. I think, for the forseeable future, Arkansas will fall into that category for Alabama. That's just my opinion, though. I don't really get into the habit of just throwing an "Alabama is going to beat the piss out of this or that team" very often, but I think a pattern may form.

This does nothing to help your cause.  I understand what you're trying say, but using a three, or even our six game streak to justify your feelings are a stretch because of the rarity of those streaks versus teams that are in the same league as you.   

Quote
Oh, and last I checked, BDS is on the other end of the state from me.

I know you had to check a map.  Lord knows you wouldn't know otherwise.  Also, to drive from one end of the state to another to support your team isn't some sort of impossible dream.  It happens... a lot.  I'm driving across two to support Auburn.  I'll do it for a third time next weekend ....this season.   I understand work schedules, it's not a slight on you.  I just CAN, fortunately.   However, you should make the fucking trip once for yourself. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 09:16:12 AM
However, you should make the fucking trip once for yourself.
Oh, I will eventually. I've been to the stadium before, just never for a game. It's just not really near the top of my priority list. I hate being around a huge crowd too, so it's not like I'm exactly chomping at the bit to get up there either.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AUChizad on September 20, 2010, 09:48:03 AM
Totally the exception, and not the rule. That shit just does not happen year in and year out in the SEC. For that matter, I don't think McElroy "lit the world on fire" either. He did well relative to new starting QBs in the SEC, and had a great supporting cast around him. Having a Heisman winner in the backfield doesn't really hurt, nor does having a back behind that guy that could be mentioned in the same conversation.
It's like I know what you're going to say before you say it.

Of course, bammer is the exception to every rule. Saw that one coming a mile away.

I don't think anyone was trying to seriously contend that Cam would "set the world on fire", i.e. carry the team all by himself and be in Heisman contention. In fact, I'm pretty surprised that it's actually shaping up that way. I expected our offense as a whole to do a lot more clicking than they are. I expected Dyer to be a bit more badassed than he has thus far proven to be. I expected our experienced line to make it easier on Newton. All most people were expecting from Newton was to be an improvement at the QB position over Todd, and expect relative stability everywhere else. I think so far that is the case for the most part.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 10:19:11 AM
It's like I know what you're going to say before you say it.

Of course, bammer is the exception to every rule. Saw that one coming a mile away.

I don't think anyone was trying to seriously contend that Cam would "set the world on fire", i.e. carry the team all by himself and be in Heisman contention. In fact, I'm pretty surprised that it's actually shaping up that way. I expected our offense as a whole to do a lot more clicking than they are. I expected Dyer to be a bit more badassed than he has thus far proven to be. I expected our experienced line to make it easier on Newton. All most people were expecting from Newton was to be an improvement at the QB position over Todd, and expect relative stability everywhere else. I think so far that is the case for the most part.
How else do you want me to describe McElroy last year? His success last year was an exception to the normal rule of a new starting QB usually doesn't do so well his first season in the SEC. I guess since me saying he was an exception to the previously stated rule is nothing more than being a  :bamahomer: , then you tell me what is an acceptable answer. I really don't know what you're looking for here. New starting QBs just don't usually do well their first year. McElroy did....he proved it over the course of the season. How is that not an exception to the rule? It has nothing to do with it being an exception JUST because it's Alabama; it was just the luck of the draw that it happened at Alabama.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 10:20:08 AM
I said before the season that I thought there would be some face-palm moments with Cam until he got his feet under him.  I also admit that I thought with the senior dominated line and more weapons at his disposal, he would lead this offense to record numbers.  My thoughts were that Malzahn's system can make just about any half way accurate QB look incredible and I think we saw it with Todd last year.  I still believe he's going to get better and better as the season progresses as long as he learns to go through his progressions and not lock in on one receiver.

Not trying to sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about with the "Going through progressions" thing.  Just trying to say he appears to be focusing on one target when numerous times, it appears that there are guys wide open around him.  That will come with time I suppose.  I would imagine that's something Corch GM drills him on.  But then, the next D1 college football game I Corch will be my first.

On the other side of the ball, The Chin said (For the 2nd game out of 3) that they were scheming on the run.  Had no idea what Clemson would run and had to adjust.  If that's the case, then kudos to them for seemingly making the adjustments..EXCEPT...on the screens.  Clemson could have run 82 straight screen passes and I don't think that defense would have ever figured it out.  However, I do have to ask...did they think Clemson was going to run a totally different offense than last year?  Did they have a new OC?  Is Malzahn running anything different witht he exception of the QB running more? 

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
On the other side of the ball, The Chin said (For the 2nd game out of 3) that they were scheming on the run.  Had no idea what Clemson would run and had to adjust.  If that's the case, then kudos to them for seemingly making the adjustments..EXCEPT...on the screens.  Clemson could have run 82 straight screen passes and I don't think that defense would have ever figured it out.  However, I do have to ask...did they think Clemson was going to run a totally different offense than last year?  Did they have a new OC?  Is Malzahn running anything different witht he exception of the QB running more?
I didn't really understand the having to guess what they would do on offense either. I'm sure Clemson didn't have to pull out anything special to beat their first two opponents this season, but there should be film from last season laying around somewhere. As long as Dabo is the coach, the offense really isn't going to change a whole lot. I know Napier is their OC, but Dabo pretty much calls the plays.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 10:31:42 AM
I would love to see the stats on the number of screens Clemson ran Saturday night.  Have no idea why they ever ran anything else.  With the exception of Antoine Carter batting one up in the air (Then suddenly becoming a paraplegic and crumpling to the ground) it looked like they never had a clue on recognizing it.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: wesfau2 on September 20, 2010, 11:16:43 AM
Here are my thoughts on the game:

1) ACC refs suck.  Horribly.

2) We actually fucking HUDDLED UP!?!?!  Fuck me.

3) Our LBs were owned all night.  Bynes had a decent night, but he outsides were wide open.  They looked like the keystone kops at some points, running into each other.

4) Cam has poor touch on the short balls.  Constantly overthrowing the short out/flat routes.

5) The Clemson RBs are very good.  Ellington and Harper will make lots of teams look poor this year.  That layout catch of Harper's was fucking BEAUTIFUL.

6) What a hard-hitting game.  Without the physicality of our defense, we lose this one.  The Clemson receivers were scared to be hit late in the game, and that contributed to some crucial drops.  Also, after McNeil stuck him in the back, Parker was a completely different QB.

7) Great rally for our team.  It was great to see Cam leading them on the sideline and taking charge.  24 unanswered is a strong rally from the poor start.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on September 20, 2010, 11:18:55 AM
Here are my thoughts on the game:

1) ACC refs suck.  Horribly.

Actually gotta disagree with you here, outside of the pass interference.  I thought they called a pretty decent game.

Everything else though
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AUChizad on September 20, 2010, 11:43:41 AM
Actually gotta disagree with you here, outside of the pass interference.  I thought they called a pretty decent game.

Everything else though
Both PI's in that one drive, especially the second one, was enough to fuck up their entire credibility.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: wesfau2 on September 20, 2010, 11:45:50 AM
Both PI's in that one drive, especially the second one, was enough to fuck up their entire credibility.

Indeed.

They got the illegal snap call on the FG correct...that was their only saving grace, as the official initially signaled offsides.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 11:47:52 AM
They did badly miss a blatant face mask on Dyer, I believe. He was literally spun around backwards and tackeld by the face mask. 

Did anyone at the game want to run down on the field and donkey punch the back judge who ran in and stopped the game like 27 times.  I guess there were play clock issues or something but the refs were momentum killers for both sides all night.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 20, 2010, 11:52:46 AM
The Clemson RB's are pretty good. That Ellington kid is an excellent RB. Parker is a good QB and probably would have tore us up a bit more if McNeil hadn't of stuck him. I def agree, that was a heck of a comeback.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 20, 2010, 11:57:34 AM
They did badly miss a blatant face mask on Dyer, I believe. He was literally spun around backwards and tackeld by the face mask. 

It was a horse collar tackle but all the same they missed the shit out of it. This ACC seemed to be trying real hard to help the Clemson out.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Tiger Wench on September 20, 2010, 12:00:48 PM
Actually gotta disagree with you here, outside of the pass interference.  I thought they called a pretty decent game.
They fucked Clemson on the interception that should have been a touchback but was placed on the 1 yd line.  Even Herbie and Brent called that wrong.  They also missed an off sides on Auburn on the crucial third down in the 4th Q.

Granted, both of those went in Auburn's favor, so I was glad the refs sucked... but if we are talking about overall suckitude, we have to include those.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Tiger Wench on September 20, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
Here are my thoughts on the game:

7) Great rally for our team.  It was great to see Cam leading them on the sideline and taking charge.  24 unanswered is a strong rally from the poor start.

I didn't want to be labeled a sunshine pumper because there was a lot of bad stuff in this game, but this raht hyar was the one saving grace to me.  Cam, on the sidelines, pumped up, rallying the team, acting like the  goshdamn LEADER of this team.  Can't say that I recollect Chris Todd doing this.  Jason "Let's go win this game" Campbell was the last guy that lead this team, and that makes a difference.  That was an inspired team in the second half.  Coming back from a 17 point deficit was not something this team would have done last year, or GOD FORBID two years ago.  Not only did they do it, they BELIEVED they could do it.  And they did.  Chiz said at halftime that we'd see what they were made of, and we did.  I know that guts and grit will will not be enough against some teams if the level of execution does not improve, but at least there is something to look back and remember - we can come back.  We've done it.  We are never out of it.

From that perspective, could not be more proud.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 20, 2010, 12:13:43 PM
From that perspective, could not be more proud.

You aint kidding. This is the one thing that I took most out of this game. That was AUsome!

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: CCTAU on September 20, 2010, 12:25:20 PM
I felt Cam was confused the whole night. It seems the coaches wanted him to play his game differently from a run perspective and that seemed to have messed with his continuity. Leave the guy alone and he gets the first down late in the game instead of diving and then calling a timeout only to have Dyer stopped. Let Cam play his game and take what you get. When he finally learns how to read a defense and throw the ball with a natural instinct, then worry about his running style. That crap almost lost us the game. No way Clemson stops him from getting those 2 extra yards.

And please don't throw passing stats up right now. Darvin Adams created just about all of those. HE is earning his money this year. In the spring game, I saw Caudle eat up the short passing game, so I know we have one. If we don't start using it, we will get crushed by USCe. (and others)
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 12:38:30 PM
Don't know if they showed it on TV or not, but at the break between the 3rd and 4th quarters, the entire team ran out on to the field and then sprinted down toward the student section end of the field and got the fans in a frenzy.  Definitely a Trooper move.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: RWS on September 20, 2010, 12:44:06 PM
And please don't throw passing stats up right now. Darvin Adams created just about all of those. HE is earning his money this year. In the spring game, I saw Caudle eat up the short passing game, so I know we have one. If we don't start using it, we will get crushed by USCe. (and others)
This was sort of my point from earlier. When your QB completes 7 passes for 203 yards with 2 INTs, then one receiver caught 5 of those 7, that sounds like you're just jump balling it to the tallest receiver on the field. Especially watching the way the ball has been thrown the past two games. I can understand him throwing a little high since he's pretty tall, but when you're chunking it down field 30-40 yards, that safety is going to make you pay if you aren't accurate with it.

I know the A-Day game shouldn't be the measuring stick, but Caudle looked impressive and fairly sharp. I thought he looked better than Newton, and that's where my "Cam can't be the most talented QB on AU's roster" comment came from.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: War Eagle!!! on September 20, 2010, 12:48:38 PM
I wish I could remember what the fuck everyone is talking about...
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AWK on September 20, 2010, 12:59:42 PM
I wish I could remember what the fuck everyone is talking about...
I have the same problem.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: wesfau2 on September 20, 2010, 02:00:53 PM
One other thing I forgot to mention:

I was fucking confused by our last possession of the first half.  1:20 on the clock, two timeouts and we...run the clock out.  What about our "quick strike" offense?  Why not try to put some points on the board.

I understand that turnovers can happen, and that everything ended well for us, but damn, I wanted to see some aggression.

Or maybe that was the end of the game...shit, I can't remember.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: AUChizad on September 20, 2010, 02:08:37 PM
One other thing I forgot to mention:

I was fucking confused by our last possession of the first half.  1:20 on the clock, two timeouts and we...run the clock out.  What about our "quick strike" offense?  Why not try to put some points on the board.

I understand that turnovers can happen, and that everything ended well for us, but damn, I wanted to see some aggression.

Or maybe that was the end of the game...shit, I can't remember.
It was the end of the game, but I was definitely pissed about the same thing.

1:20 was ample time for us to drive down the field and put this one away, provided we had our shit together. Didn't show a lot of confidence in our offense.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 02:10:07 PM
One other thing I forgot to mention:

I was fucking confused by our last possession of the first half.  1:20 on the clock, two timeouts and we...run the clock out.  What about our "quick strike" offense?  Why not try to put some points on the board.

I understand that turnovers can happen, and that everything ended well for us, but damn, I wanted to see some aggression.

Or maybe that was the end of the game...shit, I can't remember.

I think it was the end because we kicked a FG just before half.  Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  At least take one shot at pickng up some decent yardage with a screen or something like that.  If not successful, go ahead and run it out. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on September 20, 2010, 02:49:18 PM
The way our offense was playing that game, I think it was the right move.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: wesfau2 on September 20, 2010, 02:54:36 PM
The way our offense was playing that game, I think it was the right move.

I can certainly buy some of that, but the 2nd half was the polar opposite of the first half.  We actually moved the ball in the 2nd.  It just frustrated me to see that time wasted without ANY effort to win the game.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on September 20, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
I certainly think Byrum would have given a solid effort.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Snaggletiger on September 20, 2010, 03:01:04 PM
I can certainly buy some of that, but the 2nd half was the polar opposite of the first half.  We actually moved the ball in the 2nd.  It just frustrated me to see that time wasted without ANY effort to win the game.

I would like to have seen one shot at something not too outrageous on first down.  Something like a screen or a swing pass.  If you get 10-15 and a first down, then open it up a little more.  If not successful, then run it out.  I certainly didn't want Cam throwing it down the field.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: wesfau2 on September 20, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
I would like to have seen one shot at something not too outrageous on first down.  Something like a screen or a swing pass.  If you get 10-15 and a first down, then open it up a little more.  If not successful, then run it out.  I certainly didn't want Cam throwing it down the field.

This guy gets it.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on September 20, 2010, 03:05:25 PM
Yeah but you forget we were at our own 13 yard line.  If you go 3 and out or turn the ball over you set them up to have a chance to win.  At least in overtime, you get your shot on a shortened field.  You should at least be able to score 3.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on September 20, 2010, 09:28:56 PM
Yeah but you forget we were at our own 13 yard line.  If you go 3 and out or turn the ball over you set them up to have a chance to win.  At least in overtime, you get your shot on a shortened field.  You should at least be able to score 3.

Disagree.  Had we gone for it and gone for the win, I know for a fact based on all the hue and cry last week, everybody would be applauding the aggression even if it had cost us the game. 
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Thrilla on September 20, 2010, 10:47:28 PM
The cousinfucker also knows as Token brings up an interesting point with this quote:

Quote
Individual Passing Leaders
RK    Name    Team    COMP    ATT    PCT    YDS    AVG    TD    INT    SCK    SCK/YDS    RATING
1     Greg McElroy     Alabama    43    60    71.7    705    11.8    6    1    4    -12    200.0
2     Dan Persa     Northwestern    62    76    81.6    769    10.1    6    0    6    -43    192.6
3     Andrew Luck     Stanford    45    70    64.3    674    9.6    10    0    1    -8    192.3
4     Cameron Newton     Auburn    27    47    57.4    525    11.2    7    3    5    -34    187.7
5     Ryan Mallett     Arkansas    70    100    70.0    1081    10.8    9    2    4    -14    186.5
6     Brandon Weeden     Oklahoma State    74    101    73.3    975    9.7    11    2    3    0    186.3
7     Mike Hartline     Kentucky    54    75    72.0    680    9.1    5    0    1    -3    170.2
8     Ben Chappell     Indiana    48    65    73.8    548    8.4    5    0    1    -8    170.1
9     Ricky Stanzi     Iowa    47    74    63.5    711    9.6    6    1    9    -68    168.3

Newton's pass attempts are the lowest thus far after 3 games played amongst these top 9 QB's.  Malzahn needs to get this kid some more reps and run his offense with (gasp) more urgency...it seems a bit slower (plays per game) than last year.  As Wes so eloquently put:


2) We actually fucking HUDDLED UP!?!?!  Fuck me.


More reps=more pass attempts=more experience and success from Newton.  You'll see our running game become more successful as well as defenses will adjust for the pass.  Newton is already a leader on the sidelines, but if we don't get him some more reps at leading our O on the field


We have some unholy ass rapings coming our way in the near future if shit does not change.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Token on September 20, 2010, 11:30:45 PM
The cousinfucker also knows as Token brings up an interesting point with this quote:

Hey Charlie,

Fuck you.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Tiger Six on September 21, 2010, 12:47:41 PM
Exactly, Auburn is phukin' loaded with dynamic athletes all over the field, so much so, we're getting ourselves out of sync trying to get the ball to all of our playmakers....in short, we have to many Ballers.


Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Courtney Taylor, Jason Campbell, Ben Obamanu and Devin Aromashadu laugh at your assertion.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Jumbo on September 21, 2010, 01:57:46 PM
Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Courtney Taylor, Jason Campbell, Ben Obamanu and Devin Aromashadu laugh at your assertion.
Unless they dont.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Tiger Six on September 21, 2010, 03:37:16 PM
Unless they dont.

Well played, my friend. 

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on September 21, 2010, 04:31:07 PM
Well played, my friend.
You got some free time today I see....Recess?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Tiger Six on September 22, 2010, 09:34:14 AM
Still dealing with Joint Commission fallout, but getting better.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on October 01, 2010, 09:13:58 AM
I present exhibit A as to why I am glad we didn't try to push the ball against Clemson and took it into overtime.

See last nights game Oklahoma State vs. Texas A&M
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on October 01, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
I present exhibit A as to why I am glad we didn't try to push the ball against Clemson and took it into overtime.

See last nights game Oklahoma State vs. Texas A&M

I watched that game. Very sloppy game with lots of turnovers but was still interested to watch. So how many players end up having trainers come to them on the field, 10? Suzanne was watching with me and she said the funniest things. I mean straight out of left field, but true; she said, " Damn, what are you pussies, play some ball."
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Saniflush on October 01, 2010, 09:48:04 AM
I watched that game. Very sloppy game with lots of turnovers but was still interested to watch. So how many players end up having trainers come to them on the field, 10? Suzanne was watching with me and she said the funniest things. I mean straight out of left field, but true; she said, " Damn, what are you pussies, play some ball."

She got a sister?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on October 01, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
I present exhibit A as to why I am glad we didn't try to push the ball against Clemson and took it into overtime.

See last nights game Oklahoma State vs. Texas A&M

It's a great plan to be aggressive, until it's not.   
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: GH2001 on October 01, 2010, 11:05:28 AM
I like to think we are not aTm.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on October 01, 2010, 11:10:40 AM
I like to think we are not aTm.
We aren't.  However, my point was that when you try to push the ball mistakes can happen.  ie A&M had the momentum (they had scored the last 2 tds) but that interception allowed OKS to return it to the 40 with 33 secs left make a short pass...field goal...made....game over. 

Game is over we won, no one knows what would have happened, JMO that I thought it would have been hard to push the ball from our own 13 down the field in 1:15. I am glad we went to overtime and glad we won.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: GH2001 on October 01, 2010, 11:16:44 AM
We aren't.  However, my point was that when you try to push the ball mistakes can happen.  ie A&M had the momentum (they had scored the last 2 tds) but that interception allowed OKS to return it to the 40 with 33 secs left make a short pass...field goal...made....game over. 

Game is over we won, no one knows what would have happened, JMO that I thought it would have been hard to push the ball from our own 13 down the field in 1:15. I am glad we went to overtime and glad we won.

I'm kinda in between here. I didn't want us to lay down and run the clock out, but I also didn't want to chunk it downfield recklessly as Johnson did last night. I was thinking bubble screens, outside runs maybe - just use short chunks to TRY and get to the 35 yard line to give Byrum a chance. We had 1.5 mins and 2 Timeouts. We didn't have to chunk it like aTm was trying to. That was just stupid on their part. They (Clemson) were giving us the underneath. Take the 7 yards and get out of bounds one play at a time.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: Godfather on October 01, 2010, 11:24:29 AM
I'm kinda in between here. I didn't want us to lay down and run the clock out, but I also didn't want to chunk it downfield recklessly as Johnson did last night. I was thinking bubble screens, outside runs maybe - just use short chunks to TRY and get to the 35 yard line to give Byrum a chance. We had 1.5 mins and 2 Timeouts. We didn't have to chunk it like aTm was trying to. That was just stupid on their part. They (Clemson) were giving us the underneath. Take the 7 yards and get out of bounds one play at a time.

I agree had we been maybe 20 yards further down field say our own 33 yard line.  I just think at home you are better off going to overtime.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on October 01, 2010, 11:25:34 AM
I like to think we are not aTm.

Seriously, what has that got to do with it?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on October 01, 2010, 11:29:28 AM
Seriously, what has that got to do with it?

On other boards that translates to "I like to think we are not shit"; of which I totally disagree.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on October 01, 2010, 11:30:24 AM
I'm kinda in between here. I didn't want us to lay down and run the clock out, but I also didn't want to chunk it downfield recklessly as Johnson did last night. I was thinking bubble screens, outside runs maybe - just use short chunks to TRY and get to the 35 yard line to give Byrum a chance. We had 1.5 mins and 2 Timeouts. We didn't have to chunk it like aTm was trying to. That was just stupid on their part. They (Clemson) were giving us the underneath. Take the 7 yards and get out of bounds one play at a time.
Here's my thoughts...you're either going to take your shot, or your not calling "less conservative" plays in an effort to make it appear you're trying to move the ball for a winning score, when you're really not...the players know, the other team knows....and it's no different from just taking a knew 99% of the time.   Either fucking man up and let the chips fall where they may, or pack it up and play for OT.  There's no REAL in between in my book.  There's also a lot to be said for knowing your team, how they've played, how the defense is, the offense it in the red zone...LOTS of factors for a coach to consider, many of which he must just instinctively know about his team and their current situation.   A good argument can be made, like the one you made, for aTm going for broke...but today, the better argurment is speculation on what might have been had they taken that offensive momentum in to a short field in OT.

Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on October 01, 2010, 11:31:26 AM
On other boards that translates to "I like to think we are not shit"; of which I totally disagree.

I agree too...what's that got to do with it?
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: GH2001 on October 01, 2010, 11:31:37 AM
Seriously, what has that got to do with it?

Mainly - Johnson is not Newton as far as being erratic. And I like to think Malzahn is a more opportunistic play caller than Sherman. That was a FUBAR last night.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: GH2001 on October 01, 2010, 11:32:59 AM
I agree too...what's that got to do with it?
Both of you and the other boards were wrong - see above post.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on October 01, 2010, 11:35:13 AM
My comment was merely directed at the use of aTm; which means shit.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: JR4AU on October 01, 2010, 11:38:04 AM
Both of you and the other boards were wrong - see above post.

I assumed your point was that "we're Auburn, we should man up, aTm isn't and shouldn't".  Now, if your talking team, knowledge of team and players...you have a very valid point.  I still say, when you ere on the side of caution and conservative, you can more easily justify it in either event, and I think it works out better more often.    Later in the season, with more confidence in Cam, like we have just one more game later, maybe you consider manning up.  They didn't have that confidence vs MSU or Clemson, AND as it turns out, it worked out in our favor.  JMHO.  YMMV.
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: GH2001 on October 01, 2010, 11:38:42 AM
My comment was merely directed at the use of aTm; which means shit.

Or Texas A&M..... :thumsup:
(http://www.chriscreamer.com/images/logos/34/866/full/4659.gif)


Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: djsimp on October 01, 2010, 11:42:20 AM
Or Texas A&M..... :thumsup:
(http://www.chriscreamer.com/images/logos/34/866/full/4659.gif)

Yes, yes I got ya. Just  :poke:
Title: Re: I submit to you....
Post by: DnATL on October 02, 2010, 09:20:20 PM
My comment was merely directed at the use of aTm; which means shit.
There is also another use of atm, one which causes AWK to have bad breath