ESPN Recruiting Rankings

[GH2001]

Gonna have to disagree there.  Tubs and Co. recruited that group on the 2003-2005 teams.  I think all but maybe one or 2 of the offensive side of the ball on the 2004 squad made NFL rosters, and we all know about Jason, Carnell and Ronnie.   

Talking on paper, pure talent. A lot of Tubs' guys over achieved - and thats ok too.

[JR4AU]

Talking on paper, pure talent. A lot of Tubs' guys over achieved - and thats ok too.

Most of those guys on the 2004 team were highly recruited big names, not diamond in the rough over-acheivers. 

Fact is, when they were new, hungry, and trying to impress, that was as a fine recruiting staff as there was, but they had a lot of quit in them.

[GH2001]

Most of those guys on the 2004 team were highly recruited big names, not diamond in the rough over-acheivers. 

Fact is, when they were new, hungry, and trying to impress, that was as a fine recruiting staff as there was, but they had a lot of quit in them.

I think Kaos said it right when he would say that after 2003/jetgate, Tubs had them over a barrel at that point. Plus it may have taken some fight out of him. Who knows. But he was paid good money to NOT quit and the fans supported him. And they quit on us anyway.

[JR4AU]

I think Kaos said it right when he would say that after 2003/jetgate, Tubs had them over a barrel at that point. Plus it may have taken some fight out of him. Who knows. But he was paid good money to NOT quit and the fans supported him. And they quit on us anyway.

Yep, well most fans supported him.  At any rate, he, and his staff were paid a full, and good salary to move the Auburn program ahead.  From 2004 on, they went backwards due to complacency.

[jmar]

Dye brought AU exposure similar to that of Dooley/Walker years.

Dye inherited a defensive roster similar to what Chizik did from Tubs.

Tubs took the Bowden/ Oliver roster and put up some fine classes.

Jetgate! Not sure how that effects the psyche of one in that kind of position.

Complacent?  Recruiting wise, yes. Too many projects. 

Indifference towards air-raid. Yes!     Good idea? Yes.    Poor timing? Yes.

Time to go!  Nice knowing you, thank you for your service.     

[GH2001]

Jetgate! Not sure how that effects the psyche of one in that kind of position.

  

See jmar - now you're gonna make me defend Tubs. Imagine your boss secretly trying to get rid of you and going to find your replacement before he has actually fired you. Then - everyone finds out and you find out. At that point you are asked if you want to stay in your job, knowing they just tried to rid of you and the only reason you still have a job is because it leaked out, otherwise you would be unemployed. How can that NOT affect one's psyche. I think it was in his head the rest of his time in Auburn.

[wesfau2]

ee Mark Richt for reference.  His 2 SEC Titles have become a distant memory, and his 2008 campaign of 10-3 was a major disappointment from the #1 pre-season pick, then last year's 8 win mark won't do at all.  It's obvious his talent has fallen off somewhat, and probably is a product of just getting tired, complacent, and needing a break, which we don't allow SEC coaches.   

Uh...here's why I say Richt is notorious for squandering talent. 

UGA's Rivals Recruiting Class Rankings:

2002 - #3
2003 - #6
2004 - #6
2005 - #10
2006 - #4
2007 - #9
2008 - #7
2009 - #6

His classes dipped from 03-05, sharply increased in '06, and have been steadily improving since '07.  Nary a class outside the top 10 in 8 years...and still can't do anything with the kids.

[Snaggletiger]

Uh...here's why I say Richt is notorious for squandering talent. 

UGA's Rivals Recruiting Class Rankings:

2002 - #3
2003 - #6
2004 - #6
2005 - #10
2006 - #4
2007 - #9
2008 - #7
2009 - #6

His classes dipped from 03-05, sharply increased in '06, and have been steadily improving since '07.  Nary a class outside the top 10 in 8 years...and still can't do anything with the kids.

This X10.  Very few programs can match that level of consistency in recruiting. Sometimes, these ranking systems are off base and I'm the first to say that there is no way in hell a service can accurately evaluate each one of the thousands upon thousands of kids playing H.S. ball.  But I've also said that if you consistently get the highly rated kids, you'll have enough talent to take it to the top despite the few who don't pan out.  Top 10 recruiting classes for 8 straight years means you have as much or more top shelf talent as anyone in D1 football.  You should expect results.  You should demand it.   

[jmar]

See jmar - now you're gonna make me defend Tubs. Imagine your boss secretly trying to get rid of you and going to find your replacement before he has actually fired you. Then - everyone finds out and you find out. At that point you are asked if you want to stay in your job, knowing they just tried to rid of you and the only reason you still have a job is because it leaked out, otherwise you would be unemployed. How can that NOT affect one's psyche. I think it was in his head the rest of his time in Auburn.

Exactly! Jesus who can overcome that?   He did have 'em over a barrel as Kaos stated, but don't you have to sleep with one eye open after that?
Look, I'm a homer in a normal sense but not to the point where I glaze over the ugly truth. This cut-throat mentality had to cease one way of the other for AU to flourish.
 In the '70's, the position of power was AD and Head Coach. Then you could work some magic. Might have slowed some eventual progress at AU, football-wise to some degree. Who knows?
And yes Tub's last three recruiting years sucked.

[GH2001]

Uh...here's why I say Richt is notorious for squandering talent. 

UGA's Rivals Recruiting Class Rankings:

2002 - #3
2003 - #6
2004 - #6
2005 - #10
2006 - #4
2007 - #9
2008 - #7
2009 - #6

His classes dipped from 03-05, sharply increased in '06, and have been steadily improving since '07.  Nary a class outside the top 10 in 8 years...and still can't do anything with the kids.

THIS THIS and oh yeah - THIS.

Has UGA consistently finished in the top 10?

[JR4AU]

Squandering talent, and having it drop off are two different issues.  One is coaching, the other recruiting. 

Year, record/sec, bowl, coaches and ap final poll


2001  8–4/5–3 T–3rd (East) L Music City 25 22
2002  13–1/7–1 1st (East) W Sugar † 3 3
2003  11–3/6–2 T–1st (East) W Capital One 6 7
2004  10–2/6–2 2nd (East) W Outback 6 7
2005  10–3/6–2 1st (East) L Sugar † 10 10
2006  9–4/4–4 T–3rd (East) W Chick-fil-A — 23
2007  11–2/6–2 T–1st (East) W Sugar † 3 2
2008  10–3/6–2 2nd (East) W Capital One 10 13
2009  8–5/4–4 T–2nd (East) W Independence — —

Finished out of the top 10 three times, including year one.  In fact, his only real drop off was last year, after losing an overall #1 draft pick at QB, and a first rounder at RB.  I've always  said this, and will continue...if at Auburn, we could maintain 8 wins as a low water mark, I'd keep a coach that could do that, AND compete for the SEC and win one for every 8 win "down season".  In coaching and in football, shit happens...you can't, no coach can, maintain championship level talent and play EVERY year. 

[GH2001]

Squandering talent, and having it drop off are two different issues.  One is coaching, the other recruiting. 

Year, record/sec, bowl, coaches and ap final poll


2001  8–4/5–3 T–3rd (East) L Music City 25 22
2002  13–1/7–1 1st (East) W Sugar † 3 3
2003  11–3/6–2 T–1st (East) W Capital One 6 7
2004  10–2/6–2 2nd (East) W Outback 6 7
2005  10–3/6–2 1st (East) L Sugar † 10 10
2006  9–4/4–4 T–3rd (East) W Chick-fil-A — 23
2007  11–2/6–2 T–1st (East) W Sugar † 3 2
2008  10–3/6–2 2nd (East) W Capital One 10 13
2009  8–5/4–4 T–2nd (East) W Independence — —

Finished out of the top 10 three times, including year one.  In fact, his only real drop off was last year, after losing an overall #1 draft pick at QB, and a first rounder at RB.  I've always  said this, and will continue...if at Auburn, we could maintain 8 wins as a low water mark, I'd keep a coach that could do that, AND compete for the SEC and win one for every 8 win "down season".  In coaching and in football, poop happens...you can't, no coach can, maintain championship level talent and play EVERY year. 

With the talent we had in the same span? Hell yes....but with their talent? I would expect more.

[jmar]

With the talent we had in the same span? Hell yes....but with their talent? I would expect more.

Hence my argument for talent over schemes. Bo, Deion and others  force one to alter schemes. I rest!

[JR4AU]

Hence my argument for talent over schemes. Bo, Deion and others  force one to alter schemes. I rest!

Talent beats schemes every day, well certain exceptions like the bammer vs Utah Sugar Bowl beat down. 

I was reading Urban Meyer's book the other day, and in being questioned early on about his "spread offense" he repeats this "talent over scheme" mantra a lot. 

[jmar]

Talent beats schemes every day, well certain exceptions like the bammer vs Utah Sugar Bowl beat down. 

I was reading Urban Meyer's book the other day, and in being questioned early on about his "spread offense" he repeats this "talent over scheme" mantra a lot. 

Dammit I like you JR; you're verbose and you will argue till the cows come home. Then when I think you'll buck-up, you go all agreeable. This is home to me even though I post on several sights. The SN site is very regional, Big Ten and Pac Ten infighting and SEC hatred, but it's very sterile which is why this suits me moreso.I'm into the spirit rather than the letter. Another AU site is a bit too young for me. (I'm 51) I Like everyone here, very diverse opinions though don't know how others take me sometimes. I'm obtuse and play the weird uncle, but it's just out of boredom.

[wesfau2]

Squandering talent, and having it drop off are two different issues.  One is coaching, the other recruiting. 

Ok, so let's leave my opinion of Richt's abilities aside and focus on your statement:

It's obvious his talent has fallen off somewhat

After seeing the Rivals' rankings above, do you still maintain that UGA's talent has "fallen off"?

[JR4AU]

Ok, so let's leave my opinion of Richt's abilities aside and focus on your statement:

After seeing the Rivals' rankings above, do you still maintain that UGA's talent has "fallen off"?

If you believe that Rivals recruiting rankings are an absolute predictor of on the field talent, I'll agree it hasn't fallen off. 

[Snaggletiger]

If you believe that Rivals recruiting rankings are an absolute predictor of on the field talent, I'll agree it hasn't fallen off. 

This was the point to my post earlier. While there's no way Rivals or Scout can be accurate on every single kid, the overall rankings of a class shouldn't be very far off.  8 years of top 10 means you're fucking stacked across the board.  No two ways about it. 

[jmar]

This was the point to my post earlier. While there's no way Rivals or Scout can be accurate on every single kid, the overall rankings of a class shouldn't be very far off.  8 years of top 10 means you're phuking stacked across the board.  No two ways about it.  

Papa Bowden swears by Richt's recruiting ability and mourned his loss. Fulmer had strong classes in final rankings too, or that was the perception.

[JR4AU]

This was the point to my post earlier. While there's no way Rivals or Scout can be accurate on every single kid, the overall rankings of a class shouldn't be very far off.  8 years of top 10 means you're fucking stacked across the board.  No two ways about it. 

I agree...but one glaring deficiencey, like say at QB, can make a very average team out of them.   And sometimes team chemistry doesn't work out, like Auburn's 2003 team, and bammer's team under Dumbose that was pre-season #1 and went like 3-8.  Sometimes shit just happens.  And yes, the coach is ultimately to blame.  We can call it a difference of opionion, but I think Richt is a good coach, and unless they can land a really hot proven name, they'd be foolish to dump him for having a couple of down seasons with 8-10 wins.  JMO, YMMV, and obviously does.   It's just opinions.