Man Up--Repealing Healthcare

[Townhallsavoy]

I won't throw stones at you.  Let me just ask this...  If "little Timmy breaks an ankle playing hide and seek with his friends", will he be denied healthcare?  There is no hospital in the United States that will turn him away without providing healthcare to him.  This debate was not even about healthcare.  It was about healthcare financing and who controls it.  Everyone in America already has healthcare.  Naturally, those who can afford better healthcare get better healthcare.  The same is true of food, housing, automobiles and flat-screen televisions.  There's nothing wrong with that. 

Why is it the government's responsibility to "ensure healthcare for every American citizen"?  I guess we already cover retirement, but what about housing?  I guess we already cover food, but what about basic transportation?  Why stop at healthcare?  What makes healthcare more important than some of these other "necessities"?  Here's a hint...  It's the economics behind it along with all of the opportunities to tax and control it at multiple levels.  We're not stepping over people dying in the streets.  Those scare tactics were absolutely ridiculous. 

Then where do the stories about a family getting hit with a $100,000 hospitable bill come from? 

I'll admit that I'm not entirely educated on the healthcare situation in our country because I grew up in a household with the best healthcare coverage (mother a teacher) and now my wife and I are both teachers.  I have to go with what I see on the news.

Yet another glaring problem in our country.  Our media (both sides) is so hell bent on getting their respected parties of choice elected that they put out misinformation along with scare tactics. 

[AUChizad]

Throw stones at me - I'm all for a bill that ensures healthcare for every American citizen.  I know that there are plenty of people out there who are lazy and ignorant and decide to buy a Cadillac for Christmas instead of buying healthcare for their nine children.  However, those nine children (and that ignorant person) suffer...greatly suffer...when little Timmy breaks an ankle playing hide and seek with his friends.  Or how about the people out there who are genuinely too poor to purchase healthcare because the premiums run them 600-700 dollars a month?  They choose rent over healthcare, and I don't blame them one bit.  Also, those premiums were on a track to steadily go up over the next few decades. 

Now, as for this bill, I think it's a testimony to what is severely wrong with our country.  We have a glaring health issue in this country - from health care insurance to nutrition education to making good decisions regarding one's well being - and we use this bill, this opportunity, to continue on this stupid partisan civil war and also take advantage of the American people.  Why the hell are the words "student loans" mentioned in a health care bill?  Issues like that make this potentially great moment turn sour. 

I think Health Care reform is/was necessary. It's just this particular bill is horrendous.

Even the Republican congressmen were advocating that something be done about Health Care as it exists today (or yesterday). The tax burden this specific bill is about to put on Americans, as well as the loss of about 36,000 jobs during an economic recession will be disastrous.

[AUTiger1]

Throw stones at me - I'm all for a bill that ensures healthcare for every American citizen.  I know that there are plenty of people out there who are lazy and ignorant and decide to buy a Cadillac for Christmas instead of buying healthcare for their nine children.  However, those nine children (and that ignorant person) suffer...greatly suffer...when little Timmy breaks an ankle playing hide and seek with his friends.  Or how about the people out there who are genuinely too poor to purchase healthcare because the premiums run them 600-700 dollars a month?  They choose rent over healthcare, and I don't blame them one bit.  Also, those premiums were on a track to steadily go up over the next few decades. 

Now, as for this bill, I think it's a testimony to what is severely wrong with our country.  We have a glaring health issue in this country - from health care insurance to nutrition education to making good decisions regarding one's well being - and we use this bill, this opportunity, to continue on this stupid partisan civil war and also take advantage of the American people.  Why the hell are the words "student loans" mentioned in a health care bill?  Issues like that make this potentially great moment turn sour. 

Not throwing stones, but as a teacher you have to know about "all kids".  BCBS coverage for your kids for about $50/year at 12 continuous months.  Sorry but anyone can afford $50/year.  Those who are genuinely too poor to afford healthcare?  Medicaid was created and supposed to be for that exactly.  Yes we need reform.  I agree that we do, but not this bill.  As Chizad said, the tax burden will be disastrous and it is going to cost us money that we don't have. Don't believe the "magic math".  Remember the figures they release didn't include the 15K+ IRS (at taxpayers expense) jobs that will have to be created to make sure that everyone is paying their fair share.  Not to mention that they are going to make us pay a full ten years for this to only provide six years worth of coverage.  There is no coverage the first four years.

[CCTAU]

Throw stones at me - I'm all for a bill that ensures healthcare for every American citizen.  I know that there are plenty of people out there who are lazy and ignorant and decide to buy a Cadillac for Christmas instead of buying healthcare for their nine children.  However, those nine children (and that ignorant person) suffer...greatly suffer...when little Timmy breaks an ankle playing hide and seek with his friends.  Or how about the people out there who are genuinely too poor to purchase healthcare because the premiums run them 600-700 dollars a month?  They choose rent over healthcare, and I don't blame them one bit.  Also, those premiums were on a track to steadily go up over the next few decades. 

Now, as for this bill, I think it's a testimony to what is severely wrong with our country.  We have a glaring health issue in this country - from health care insurance to nutrition education to making good decisions regarding one's well being - and we use this bill, this opportunity, to continue on this stupid partisan civil war and also take advantage of the American people.  Why the hell are the words "student loans" mentioned in a health care bill?  Issues like that make this potentially great moment turn sour. 

So when the numbers get boiled down, about 15% of Americans can truly NOT afford health INSURANCE. And you are OK with the government implementing a plan that makes the 85% the same as the 15% in terms of health care quality? This si the same plan they had for integration in education and we went from one of the best educations in the world, to average, at best. Anytime a socialist agenda is implemented, the whole of society suffers.
And to be an educated person and NOT have educated yourself fully on this issue is puzzling. No one is crying about the broken legs, they are crying because they don't have a doctor to go to and they are not getting the same coverage as those who have worked for it. The $100,000 in debt type of thing is for major issues such as cancer and other types of catastrophic issues. Even those with insurance find themselves bitten by the small print sometimes. THIS IS the type of reform that should have been addressed. Reform could have happened in stages without this overhaul of the system. The problem with that is that the ONE would not have gotten full credit. He needed/wanted a legacy and the dims gave it to him. What the dims are saying is that the 15% is more important than the 85%. The 46% that do not pay taxes is more important than the 56% who do. The rich should give up all that they can until they are even with the poor. This is a socialist act plain and simple. And their attitude is that it has never succeeded in history before because WE have not tried it yet.

[Kaos]

If we're going to reform something how about the freaking tax code?   Feds get about 35% of my money.  State gets another 10-15%.  I pay, on average, 8% sales tax. 

58% of every dollar I earn is gone before I get it. 

The guy who slammed the plane into the building?  I get it. 

[GH2001]

If we're going to reform something how about the freaking tax code?   Feds get about 35% of my money.  State gets another 10-15%.  I pay, on average, 8% sales tax. 

58% of every dollar I earn is gone before I get it. 

The guy who slammed the plane into the building?  I get it. 

By the way - that guy was a communist who was bipolar. If he thought it was bad here, he should have tried moving somewhere where he didn't even have individual ownership rights (a bullet point of the party he loved). The guy's logic made no sense to me.

[bottomfeeder]

By the way - that guy was a communist who was bipolar. If he thought it was bad here, he should have tried moving somewhere where he didn't even have individual ownership rights (a bullet point of the party he loved). The guy's logic made no sense to me.

We don't have ownership rights here. When the federal, state or local government can come get your stuff, then those are not ownership rights. The STATE has ownership of all of the countries assets, and now, even your own body. They own you.

[GarMan]

Then where do the stories about a family getting hit with a $100,000 hospitable bill come from? 

Oh, I've got stories too, from my own family.  When something like this happens, you talk with the doctor or facility, and you work it out.  You'd be surprised what they can do from payment plans to write-offs.

Back when my grandmother was diagnosed with breast cancer (that eventually spread to her lymph nodes), $100s of thousands were racked up trying to save her life.  She had no insurance other than Medicare, and Medicare covered less than 50% of her expenses.  After little discussion, every single doctor and medical facility took write-offs for the unpaid charges.  She (her estate) had to pay NOTHING. 

In your scenario, little Timmy's parents will get a bill.  They may even be requested to sign paperwork affirming their responsibility for the charges.  In the end, they are responsible for caring for little Timmy.  If they didn't make the appropriate decisions beforehand to ensure that he had adequate health coverage, they need to be responsible now.  If they can pay the bill, they should pay it.  If they can't, they should negotiate it. 

[Kaos]

Oh, I've got stories too, from my own family.  When something like this happens, you talk with the doctor or facility, and you work it out.  You'd be surprised what they can do from payment plans to write-offs.

Back when my grandmother was diagnosed with breast cancer (that eventually spread to her lymph nodes), $100s of thousands were racked up trying to save her life.  She had no insurance other than Medicare, and Medicare covered less than 50% of her expenses.  After little discussion, every single doctor and medical facility took write-offs for the unpaid charges.  She (her estate) had to pay NOTHING. 

In your scenario, little Timmy's parents will get a bill.  They may even be requested to sign paperwork affirming their responsibility for the charges.  In the end, they are responsible for caring for little Timmy.  If they didn't make the appropriate decisions beforehand to ensure that he had adequate health coverage, they need to be responsible now.  If they can pay the bill, they should pay it.  If they can't, they should negotiate it. 

SCREW the people who can't pay.  That's not the problem.  They're always taken care of. 

The problem comes with people who CAN pay.  The hospitals, doctors, etc. will drain every penny you have.  Yeah, they can write off Aunt Bessy's care because she had no money.  Why?  Because they suck every cent from Uncle Biggum's account.  It evens out. 

When I had an accident and was out of work for six months, the hospital was well aware that I was in rehab and unable to work.  Didn't stop them from suing me, from trying to take my bank accounts, from demanding to be included in whatever settlement I was able to get from the insurance company.  They went after me because I DID have money and had the potential to get more.  When my sorry ass insurance company folded and left me holding the bag on the whole damn deal, it took me five years of wrangling and a ton of attorney's fees to wring a few paltry dollars out of the mess.  Meanwhile vagrants get their bills charged off. 

This healthcare bill is just an abomination on top of an abomination.

[GH2001]

SCREW the people who can't pay.  That's not the problem.  They're always taken care of. 

The problem comes with people who CAN pay.  The hospitals, doctors, etc. will drain every penny you have.  Yeah, they can write off Aunt Bessy's care because she had no money.  Why?  Because they suck every cent from Uncle Biggum's account.  It evens out. 

When I had an accident and was out of work for six months, the hospital was well aware that I was in rehab and unable to work.  Didn't stop them from suing me, from trying to take my bank accounts, from demanding to be included in whatever settlement I was able to get from the insurance company.  They went after me because I DID have money and had the potential to get more.  When my sorry ass insurance company folded and left me holding the bag on the whole damn deal, it took me five years of wrangling and a ton of attorney's fees to wring a few paltry dollars out of the mess.  Meanwhile vagrants get their bills charged off. 

This healthcare bill is just an abomination on top of an abomination.

This is true.

That HC bill could have been scaled back to 150 pages and most of the HC problems would have been solved.

1. Eliminate Pre-existing clauses
2. Eliminate cross state prevention clauses
3. Work to try to bring down the COST of the actual HC....which leads to
4. Tort reform. Put Ken Nugent and the rest of the ambulance chasing attorneys in their place. Dr's cant even afford to stay in business because of the cost of malpractice insurance. This is indeed the ROOT cause.

And lastly if needed - Insurance companies' business structures could be formed much like that of a charity or non-profit. Thus making profit NOT the main objective, but the actual healthcare.

But the intent of this bill was not to fix healthcare. It was to take a giant step towards controlling peoples' lives and to turn us into a European style socialist country. Its who these people are. This is a small part of their bigger overall goal. Look around and see.

[Townhallsavoy]

So when the numbers get boiled down, about 15% of Americans can truly NOT afford health INSURANCE. And you are OK with the government implementing a plan that makes the 85% the same as the 15% in terms of health care quality? This si the same plan they had for integration in education and we went from one of the best educations in the world, to average, at best. Anytime a socialist agenda is implemented, the whole of society suffers.
And to be an educated person and NOT have educated yourself fully on this issue is puzzling. No one is crying about the broken legs, they are crying because they don't have a doctor to go to and they are not getting the same coverage as those who have worked for it. The $100,000 in debt type of thing is for major issues such as cancer and other types of catastrophic issues. Even those with insurance find themselves bitten by the small print sometimes. THIS IS the type of reform that should have been addressed. Reform could have happened in stages without this overhaul of the system. The problem with that is that the ONE would not have gotten full credit. He needed/wanted a legacy and the dims gave it to him. What the dims are saying is that the 15% is more important than the 85%. The 46% that do not pay taxes is more important than the 56% who do. The rich should give up all that they can until they are even with the poor. This is a socialist act plain and simple. And their attitude is that it has never succeeded in history before because WE have not tried it yet.

You didn't read my post.  I'm 100% against this bill.  However, I don't understand the strong rhetoric from some people regarding ensuring equal healthcare opportunities for all Americans no matter what strategy used to achieve the results. 

And how could anyone fully educate themselves on this issue when the bill is two thousand fucking pages long?  I care, but I don't have the time to read all of it.  I have to rely on the news.  Fox says it's all detrimental to the country.  MSNBC says it's monumental for the country.  CNN says it's scary but gonna work but might not but could make Obama look great but might cost the Democrats seats....  Glenn Beck told me to stock up my fruit cellar, and Rachel Maddow...well, I couldn't really understand Rachel Maddow because she was speaking in some kind of language that mimicked the sound of a bull. 

I don't think any American understands what issues are out there with healthcare, and I also don't think any of the politicians have anyone's best interest in mind except for their own hence their exclusion from the fucking healthcare bill.

This country is going to shit until a new party (not the Tea Party) or new leaders step up and win the people's vote with honesty and sincerity.

[Lurking Tiger]

I won't throw stones at you.  Let me just ask this...  If "little Timmy breaks an ankle playing hide and seek with his friends", will he be denied healthcare?  There is no hospital in the United States that will turn him away without providing healthcare to him.  This debate was not even about healthcare.  It was about healthcare financing and who controls it.  Everyone in America already has healthcare.  Naturally, those who can afford better healthcare get better healthcare.  The same is true of food, housing, automobiles and flat-screen televisions.  There's nothing wrong with that. 

Why is it the government's responsibility to "ensure healthcare for every American citizen"?  I guess we already cover retirement, but what about housing?  I guess we already cover food, but what about basic transportation?  Why stop at healthcare?  What makes healthcare more important than some of these other "necessities"?  Here's a hint...  It's the economics behind it along with all of the opportunities to tax and control it at multiple levels.  We're not stepping over people dying in the streets.  Those scare tactics were absolutely ridiculous. 

This is true.

That HC bill could have been scaled back to 150 pages and most of the HC problems would have been solved.

1. Eliminate Pre-existing clauses
2. Eliminate cross state prevention clauses
3. Work to try to bring down the COST of the actual HC....which leads to
4. Tort reform. Put Ken Nugent and the rest of the ambulance chasing attorneys in their place. Dr's cant even afford to stay in business because of the cost of malpractice insurance. This is indeed the ROOT cause.

And lastly if needed - Insurance companies' business structures could be formed much like that of a charity or non-profit. Thus making profit NOT the main objective, but the actual healthcare.

But the intent of this bill was not to fix healthcare. It was to take a giant step towards controlling peoples' lives and to turn us into a European style socialist country. Its who these people are. This is a small part of their bigger overall goal. Look around and see.

That's about all that needs to be said. Lock the thread and move on.

[AWK]

I know I'm not going to get any resistance here, but this is the shadiest way to pass something so huge that directly affects so many people that I've ever seen.

The Dems just basically wiped their ass with the constitution.

When roughly 2/3rds of the U.S. population oppose something like this no matter which poll you look at, and then they just go ahead and sneak it through by means of reconciliation, deem & pass, and other absurd backdoor tactics, democracy has failed.

Um...yeah...Do you know how many times Bush used this same tactic while in office?  Multiple times.  Also, when Bush used it one time Pelosi wanted him impeached for using such an underhanded tactic.  Oh how the tables have turned.  Haha...both sides are idiots.

[AUChizad]

Um...yeah...Do you know how many times Bush used this same tactic while in office?  Multiple times.  Also, when Bush used it one time Pelosi wanted him impeached for using such an underhanded tactic.  Oh how the tables have turned.  Haha...both side are idiots.

Never said he didn't. I agree with your closing argument.

[GH2001]

Um...yeah...Do you know how many times Bush used this same tactic while in office?  Multiple times.  Also, when Bush used it one time Pelosi wanted him impeached for using such an underhanded tactic.  Oh how the tables have turned.  Haha...both side are idiots.

Nice try but I dont think you are gonna get many Bush defenders....

[CCTAU]

Nice try but I dont think you are gonna get many Bush defenders....

I'll defend him on keeping my ass safe from terrorism. But the drunken sailor defense does not fly with me.


Bush did push through a few things in this manner, but nothing as huge as this. Herman Cain said this was like Solomon and the baby. This bill is only half a baby. And half a baby is no good to anyone. We should have demanded the whole baby or nothing. Now we have worse than nothing.

[GH2001]

I'll defend him on keeping my ass safe from terrorism. But the drunken sailor defense does not fly with me.


Bush did push through a few things in this manner, but nothing as huge as this. Herman Cain said this was like Solomon and the baby. This bill is only half a baby. And half a baby is no good to anyone. We should have demanded the whole baby or nothing. Now we have worse than nothing.

I guess it was implied that the scope was Healthcare and Domestic policy pushing. I agree in that regard, but I do not condone most of what Bush did. I just can't support a Neocon.

[Kaos]

People are sooooo damn stupid. 

I saw a SoundOff in the Mobile Press Reg today.  I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like this:

We're glad for this new healthcare plan! Our daughter who is 24 and off our insurance but doesn't have very good insurance of her own found a lump. Thank God it wasn't cancer, but if it had been her treatment would have bankrupted her. Thanks to Obama, she could now get treatment and not have to pay for it.

IDIOTS.  These idiot sheep actually believe that this abomination that was just signed is going to give them no-cost medical care for life. 

[AUTiger1]

People are sooooo damn stupid. 

I saw a SoundOff in the Mobile Press Reg today.  I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like this:

We're glad for this new healthcare plan! Our daughter who is 24 and off our insurance but doesn't have very good insurance of her own found a lump. Thank God it wasn't cancer, but if it had been her treatment would have bankrupted her. Thanks to Obama, she could now get treatment and not have to pay for it.

IDIOTS.  These idiot sheep actually believe that this abomination that was just signed is going to give them no-cost medical care for life. 

That scares the shit out of me.  I actually heard one on a call to Neal Bortz this morning say "It's about time that all of you people that have been well off for all of your life give it up to those of us who have not".

Fuck this entitlement mentality that people have.  If I work hard and become "well off" then it is mine to do with what I please, not there for you to steal.  The entitlement mentality is nothing more than stealing IMO.

[Kaos]

That scares the shit out of me.  I actually heard one on a call to Neal Bortz this morning say "It's about time that all of you people that have been well off for all of your life give it up to those of us who have not".

Fuck this entitlement mentality that people have.  If I work hard and become "well off" then it is mine to do with what I please, not there for you to steal.  The entitlement mentality is nothing more than stealing IMO.

Send me a list of the things you've acquired.  If there's anything I need I'll let you know.