Religion Poll

[Kaos]

Are all those billions of people brainwashed and you alone enlightened because you reject their beliefs?

[AUChizad]

Not sure where you're going but all I was saying is that not all people who believe in a religion are indoctrinated or brainwashed. Like people tend to stick together. Same reason you have little Italy, Hell's Kitchen, Chinatown - people USUALLY will flock to where there are people of their like. Its just human nature. I dont think indoctrination is a factor most of the time.

So you believe that the majority of people in each religion are born scattered all across the globe, equally dispersed, but then they "flock" to locations where people of the same religion are highly concentrated?

[AUChizad]

Are all those billions of people brainwashed and you alone enlightened because you reject their beliefs?

From the guy with the Confederacy of Dumbass avatar.

[Aubie16]

This is the way I see this argument.  

A. Your right and there is no God, there is nothing in the afterlife, when we die...thats it.

B. I am right and God exists, there is a heaven and a hell and we get to spend an eternity with those we love sitting on rainbows.

Either way YOU are fucked!

You are forgetting there is a C.

C. Muslims are right or any other religion is right. Then you could be the one going to hell.

[Godfather]

You are forgetting there is a C.

C. Muslims are right or any other religion is right. Then you could be the one going to hell.

I disagree becuase the basic belief in all religions is there is but one God worship him.   If you look at the original teachings of the Muslim faith, it is based on Christianity.  Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet on the scale of Mohammed. That Alah is God.  Allah, God, Buddah it is but one same God.  I am a Catholic, I believe that Jesus was the son of God, do I know that Catholicism is the right religion.  I do not, I don't believe there is a thing as a "right" religion, my belief is that you should believe in something and take part in it.  Otherwise in my opinion whats the point?

[GH2001]

So you believe that the majority of people in each religion are born scattered all across the globe, equally dispersed, but then they "flock" to locations where people of the same religion are highly concentrated?

You love to put words in mouths. I never said that. I think with those places its just the culture of the region and many times the history of the country. America is a different animal in a lot of ways because its a melting pot with a short short history. I was referring to how many people flock to their own kind in regards to religion, beliefs, etc.....Maybe you should start blogging Chad so that you can vent much of this animosity you have towards any traditional belief. No one is forcing ANYTHING on you in this country. Lighten up Francis.  

[Aubie16]

I disagree becuase the basic belief in all religions is there is but one God worship him.   If you look at the original teachings of the Muslim faith, it is based on Christianity.  Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet on the scale of Mohammed. That Alah is God.  Allah, God, Buddah it is but one same God.  I am a Catholic, I believe that Jesus was the son of God, do I know that Catholicism is the right religion.  I do not, I don't believe there is a thing as a "right" religion, my belief is that you should believe in something and take part in it.  Otherwise in my opinion whats the point?

Just trying to clarify your views...Is it your belief that Muslims, Jews, and Christians will all go to heaven?

[GH2001]

Just trying to clarify your views...Is it your belief that Muslims, Jews, and Christians will all go to heaven?

People worry too much about others going to heaven these days. AND those people are exactly one of the reasons that people who don't like religion - don't like it.

[Godfather]

Just trying to clarify your views...Is it your belief that Muslims, Jews, and Christians will all go to heaven?

I do....as well as dogs.

I do not believe religious zealots that use religion as a mask to kill each other do though.
and like GH2001 said I do not concern myself with them, I worry about getting my own self into heaven.

[AUsweetheart]

  I am a Catholic

Good to know I'm not the only one going to heaven.

[Aubie16]

I do....as well as dogs.

Thanks for your honest answers. I appreciate it.

I have to assume you do not believe the bible is infallible then? Considering it quotes Jesus as saying "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)  It just seems as if your beliefs contradict what most of Christians seem to believe.

I've found reading this thread to be pretty interesting. Keep in mind these questions are from an agnostic.

[Godfather]

Thanks for your honest answers. I appreciate it.

I have to assume you do not believe the bible is infallible then? Considering it quotes Jesus as saying "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)  It just seems as if your beliefs contradict what most of Christians seem to believe.

I've found reading this thread to be pretty interesting. Keep in mind these questions are from an agnostic.

again like I said earlier regarding religion in general ...the bible was written an interpreted by man, man is fallible. I believe in my faith, I try to live according to its teachings as much as possible.  That includes not judging others including their beliefs.

[Kaos]

From the guy with the Confederacy of Dumbass avatar....

...Who can separate reality from goofing around.  

Didn't answer the question, either. 

[Kaos]

again like I said earlier regarding religion in general ...the bible was written an interpreted by man, man is fallible. I believe in my faith, I try to live according to its teachings as much as possible.  That includes not judging others including their beliefs.

Beyond that, portions of the Bible were written hundreds of years after the events described took place. 

Take, for instance, the contention that certain Biblical figures were hundreds or thousands of years old.  It's possible -- likely even -- that they were just remembered as very, very old and someone with my flair for hyperbole said "that guy was 900 years old!"  That became part of the story and lived on. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but what you're supposed to get from the Bible (at least my opinion) is the overarching theme.  If you try to bury yourselves in the details you (again my opinion) become hopelessly lost.  I know people like that.  People who can spout it line for line and will try to shout you down if you attempt to make a rational argument against, say, the six days theory.  Six days by what measure?  Six Gregorian calendar days?  I don't think so.  That's limiting God. 

[wesfau2]

There were years of critical thinking -- and several years of outright rejection -- involved in my decision.  Yes, I know everybody isn't like that.  I know that some people are Methodists because their parents and grandparents were -- just as some people are Auburn/Alabama fans for that same reason (another form of indoctrination).  But for many the choice to believe is the result of much (pardon the expression) soul searching. 

I think that you, and others that went through this process, are the very rare exception.

[Aubie16]

again like I said earlier regarding religion in general ...the bible was written an interpreted by man, man is fallible. I believe in my faith, I try to live according to its teachings as much as possible.  That includes not judging others including their beliefs.

Cool.

I appreciate everyone that is taking part in this thread. I can't believe we actually have a 5 page thread on the X without any hijacks, 2 year old arguments, or anything of that sort. Minor miracle. Maybe I SHOULD believe in a higher power, ha.

[Vandy Vol]

This is the way I see this argument.  

A. Your right and there is no God, there is nothing in the afterlife, when we die...thats it.

B. I am right and God exists, there is a heaven and a hell and we get to spend an eternity with those we love sitting on rainbows.

Either way YOU are fucked!

Assuming that the God in which you've chosen to believe is the correct God.  If you're incorrect (and due to the vast number of religions, the odds are against you), then you're in the same boat.

EDIT:  I see now where this has been asked by Aubie and responded to by a couple of people.  Nonetheless, I think that the statement is still valid.  Although most religions have their similarities, they are also often exclusive.  Sure, most believe that there is one God, but the identity of that deity differs.  The "rules" of that deity differ.  And you may choose to chalk this up to organized religion, but some religions even claim that no other religion is correct and that only X religion will be recognized as true worship of God, whose followers are the only one worthy of entering heaven.

[AUChizad]

I do....as well as dogs.

I do not believe religious zealots that use religion as a mask to kill each other do though.
and like GH2001 said I do not concern myself with them, I worry about getting my own self into heaven

So why are agnostics and atheists your only exception to this rule? Why is there a difference in Options B & C is what I'm asking.

...Who can separate reality from goofing around.  

Didn't answer the question, either.  

I'm not the only agnostic/atheist in this thread, let alone the entire world. I don't get your point. Furthermore, only one faction of those people are "right". Despite what most people here have suggested, the popular belief within all of these religions is that only "their" religion has any validity, and the rest is fairy tale nonsense...and other believers go to hell or its equivalent. At best, Christianity is "right", and that means 2/3 of the world were wrong and going to hell. Then there are many of those who believe that only their denomination is "right", so that makes even less people who are safe from the flames of hell, no matter what the truth is.

Beyond that, portions of the Bible were written hundreds of years after the events described took place.  

Take, for instance, the contention that certain Biblical figures were hundreds or thousands of years old.  It's possible -- likely even -- that they were just remembered as very, very old and someone with my flair for hyperbole said "that guy was 900 years old!"  That became part of the story and lived on.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but what you're supposed to get from the Bible (at least my opinion) is the overarching theme.  If you try to bury yourselves in the details you (again my opinion) become hopelessly lost.  I know people like that.  People who can spout it line for line and will try to shout you down if you attempt to make a rational argument against, say, the six days theory.  Six days by what measure?  Six Gregorian calendar days?  I don't think so.  That's limiting God.  

This I can understand. This I can agree with. But again, your view on this is the minority amongst Christians.

For example, even you would probably agree that one cannot be a Christian if they reject the idea of virgin birth. If they think Jesus Christ claiming to be the son of God is no different than David Koresh doing so, because they equally critical of things that take place in the present day as they are to the stories of the Bible (even the central one), then those people certainly cannot be considered Christians, can they? I guess it then becomes a matter of which parts of the Bible do you think are meant to be poetic fables with a moral, and which parts are meant to be taken literally. To me, it seems like it should be all or none, but that's just me.

[Godfather]

So why are agnostics and atheists your only exception to this rule? Why is there a difference in Options B & C is what I'm asking.

Maybe it is my misunderstanding, but if you don't believe in a higher power than I would assume you don't believe in heaven or hell.  If that's the case than why would you care about options B or C?

[AUTiger1]

In which case they were indoctrinated by members of their cultural environment at a later age. Indoctrination is not impossible at any age, only it is far easier to do so at a developmental age. Hence frenzies about tobacco companies advertising to children, etc. Either way, those cases are comparatively far far rarer, and even more rare is it that a person comes to a religion that is not the social norm amongst their peers.

I don't see how this disproves anything I said at all. Not everyone is susceptible to being indoctrinated. It is in some people's nature not to blindly accept what they are told, but rather ask questions. These questions may very well lead them away from the beliefs of their parents.

All I am saying is that not all people come to their decisions of what they choose to believe by "dogmatic brainwashing instilled at birth" i.e. I believe it b/c my parents believe it and by god that is they only way.   Weather it be Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, The flying Spaghetti Monster....etc....etc....etc, some come to their own conclusions by researching, asking questions and taking the time to study over things.

Where man fails now and throughout most of time is the ignoring of science.  There has never been any reason why science and religion/faith have to be mutually exclusive yet they are treated as such by most.

A man with much more intelligence than I once said. "Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is blind and whoever undertakes to set himself up as the judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.

I tend to agree with him.  Some things just cannot be explained no matter how much science is thrown at it.  Could it be the Providence of a supreme being?  In my mind it very well could be. 

No one can prove the existence of God, gods or a supreme beings the same as no one can disprove the existence of God, gods or supreme beings. If one can prove it either way without a shadow of a doubt and cold hard facts we would have seen it already.  Either way you have to have faith in your thinking and reasoning skills to believe in the existence or nonexistence.

I know what I believe and I accept the facts that not everyone has the same beliefs as I do.  To call it dogmatic brainwashing from birth is offensive to me as I am not a lemming.  It took me many years to come to my own conclusions.