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Are You Serious?

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2010, 04:01:25 PM »
Yeah, another example of how ONLY Fox News isn't biased. Only THEY tell you the truth that the Health Care Summit is a dirty trap instead of a bi-partisan debate.

Please enlighten me, how is it NOT a bi-partisan debate?

Are there not equal parts Republicans and Democrats there? Do they not get equal time to speak?

It's on right now. Watch it for yourself. Don't watch it on biased CNN though! They are showing it uncut without "fair and balanced" interpretations interlaced.

Are you kidding me?  The only reason they're doing this is because they failed to pass it among their own ranks and because the Republicans have called attention to them railroading this thing without any discourse.  The Democrats have been going for an entire year behind closed doors excluding the Republicans at every turn.  The Democrats themselves didn't even know what was in the last bill, and if you called attention to specifics, they whined about you being unfair to them.  Let's seriously see what happens... 

Perhaps, they're allowing for the "open discussion" now, but I seriously doubt there will be any real changes to the bill.  Harry Reed has clearly stated that this "summit" will not change what they've already put in the "bill"...  They've already been painting the Republicans as "obstructionists" to this stupid thing, and they've already claimed that the Republicans don't have any alternative plans or ideas.  Of course, there are dozens of Republican ideas, but the Democrats have refused to consider or even hear them.  You don't always learn about that on CNN, MSNBC, ABC or CBS...  But, if you do a little surfing on the Interwebs, you'd be surprised how many ideas exist on the homepages of various Republican politicians across the House and Senate.  I guess the Interwebs must be a right-wing conspiracy just as much as Fox...
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2010, 04:10:46 PM »
Kind of like how Republicans attempted to redirect people by making a fuss about teleprompters, the half-hour delay of the a World Series baseball game because of Obama's advertisement, or the fact that the current administration Mirandized a terrorist in FBI custody when the Bush administration did the same for Richard Reid.

Of course, when the Democrats do it, it's not a problem, but when the Republicans do it, it's a crime against humanity...  By the way, Richard Reid was arrested on US soil by civilian law enforcement.  The last time I checked, they're required to Mirandize those they arrest. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2010, 04:14:53 PM »
Of course, when the Democrats do it, it's not a problem, but when the Republicans do it, it's a crime against humanity...  By the way, Richard Reid was arrested on US soil by civilian law enforcement.  The last time I checked, they're required to Mirandize those they arrest. 

I never stated that it was acceptable for either party to do it; I merely pointed out that both parties are doing it.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the individual who was Mirandized under this administration, was also taken into custody on U.S. soil by civilian law enforcement.  Nonetheless, many Republicans called for Brennan to step down from his position because of this.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2010, 04:40:14 PM »
I never stated that it was acceptable for either party to do it; I merely pointed out that both parties are doing it.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the individual who was Mirandized under this administration, was also taken into custody on U.S. soil by civilian law enforcement.  Nonetheless, many Republicans called for Brennan to step down from his position because of this.

Look, I realize that you're sort of new around here and gay-friendly.  I'm no Republipuke and not gay-friendly.  Both parties suck.  I hate the neo-con movement in the Republican party about as much as I hate Liberals/Socialists and Democrats and those "enlightened" gay-friendly people

As for Fox, they're no more biased than the drive-by lame-stream media.  In fact, I would suggest that they're probabaly less-biased towards a particular party or individual, especially when you acknowledge how critical they were of GWB and his administration. 

The whole Mirandize stink came up from Barry's request to Mirandize those who were in custody in Afghanastan, Iraq and Gitmo.  When the shoe bomber was arrested, it just served as fuel to an already volatile situation.  Bush never requested that we extend Miranda protections to terrorists, onshore or offshore, so the comparison is unreasonable at best. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2010, 04:58:06 PM »
Look, I realize that you're sort of new around here and gay-friendly.  I'm no Republipuke and not gay-friendly.  Both parties suck.  I hate the neo-con movement in the Republican party about as much as I hate Liberals/Socialists and Democrats and those "enlightened" gay-friendly people

As for Fox, they're no more biased than the drive-by lame-stream media.  In fact, I would suggest that they're probabaly less-biased towards a particular party or individual, especially when you acknowledge how critical they were of GWB and his administration. 

The whole Mirandize stink came up from Barry's request to Mirandize those who were in custody in Afghanastan, Iraq and Gitmo.  When the shoe bomber was arrested, it just served as fuel to an already volatile situation.  Bush never requested that we extend Miranda protections to terrorists, onshore or offshore, so the comparison is unreasonable at best. 

So you don't like either party, and hate their tactics to redirect topics elsewhere, yet you bring up an issue about homosexuals which is irrelevant to this thread?  Hypocrisy doesn't require a political affiliation.

The whole "Mirandize stink" regarding Brennan specifically had nothing to do with Obama's views on Mirandizing in Afghanistan.  The Republicans did not ask Brennan to step down because he had Mirandized a terrorist in a foreign country, nor did they ask him to step down because he believed that terrorists in foreign countries should be Mirandized.  Rather, they asked him to step down because a terrorist was arrested on U.S. soil and Mirandized.  This is, as you mentioned, not only customary for those arrested on U.S. soil, but it was exactly what happened with Richard Reid under the Bush administration.

I do not point this out to make a stance for Democrats or Republicans.  Rather, I point it out because it exemplifies the fact that both parties have been making stinks regarding issues and events about which stinks should not have been made.

As for Fox not being biased or being less biased, you might want to check the three studies cited above.  I know, I know...you hate studies, polls, surveys, and any attempts not made by you to ascertain public opinion and statistical facts.  But unless you've started working on getting your "$10M gubm’et grant to conduct such a study," it's all we've got.  Unless, of course, we're all supposed to just nod our heads in agreement when you or CCTAU make conclusive statements without supporting evidence.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2010, 06:51:20 PM »
So you don't like either party, and hate their tactics to redirect topics elsewhere, yet you bring up an issue about homosexuals which is irrelevant to this thread?  Hypocrisy doesn't require a political affiliation.

It has nothing to do wiff hypocrisy...  So, have fun with it...

The whole "Mirandize stink" regarding Brennan specifically had nothing to do with Obama's views on Mirandizing in Afghanistan.  The Republicans did not ask Brennan to step down because he had Mirandized a terrorist in a foreign country, nor did they ask him to step down because he believed that terrorists in foreign countries should be Mirandized.  Rather, they asked him to step down because a terrorist was arrested on U.S. soil and Mirandized.  This is, as you mentioned, not only customary for those arrested on U.S. soil, but it was exactly what happened with Richard Reid under the Bush administration.

I do not point this out to make a stance for Democrats or Republicans.  Rather, I point it out because it exemplifies the fact that both parties have been making stinks regarding issues and events about which stinks should not have been made.

Actually, I have to completely disagree with you on this one.  Long before he was elected, the candidate O'bama was foolishly suggesting the extension of Miranda and other Constitutional protections to our detainees in Gitmo and elsewhere.  After the election, there were rumors of an unofficial order to begin Mirandizing these detainees.  The whole stink regarding Brennan was exactly related to the Obummer.  There were questions as to whether he Mirandized UFA not because it was standard practice by a civilian law enforcement agency during an arrest, but because he was following an order by Barry.  Was it overblown?  Sure... 

As for Fox not being biased or being less biased, you might want to check the three studies cited above.  I know, I know...you hate studies, polls, surveys, and any attempts not made by you to ascertain public opinion and statistical facts.  But unless you've started working on getting your "$10M gubm’et grant to conduct such a study," it's all we've got.  Unless, of course, we're all supposed to just nod our heads in agreement when you or CCTAU make conclusive statements without supporting evidence. 

Again, here's another example of a so-called study that's really just based on the opinions of others.  That's evidence???  Do you really think that a typical person even understands the differences across Socialism, Fascism and Communism anymore?  I have a distinct feeling that most would consider the founders of our country to be a bunch of right-wing lunatics if they were alive today.  After all, a Modern American Conservative is really only a Jeffersonian Liberal.  We’ve even had Democrats trying to call GWB a right winger, while he was passing some of the largest spending bills in the history of our country…  Well, until Obama.  So, calling Fox biased towards the right makes about as much sense as calling Barry a genius.  It's based on mis-guided opinions supported by deranged perceptions of reality and nurtured in government indoctrination centers (aka public schools).  With the rapid downbreeding of society, my point of reference may be a few generations older than these silly studies. 

By the way, I suppose "scientific consensus" is evidence too...  Once upon a time, that “scientific consensus” told us that the earth was flat.  Later, it told us that the earth was the center of the universe.  So, please permit me to be somewhat of a skeptic when it comes to opinions that somebody tabulates and publishes in a paper, and later calls a “study”.
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2010, 09:13:54 PM »
It has nothing to do wiff hypocrisy...  So, have fun with it...

Stating that you dislike when politicians sidetrack debates by bringing up irrelevant topics and then bringing up irrelevant topics in a political discussion = hypocrisy.

Actually, I have to completely disagree with you on this one.  Long before he was elected, the candidate O'bama was foolishly suggesting the extension of Miranda and other Constitutional protections to our detainees in Gitmo and elsewhere.  After the election, there were rumors of an unofficial order to begin Mirandizing these detainees.  The whole stink regarding Brennan was exactly related to the Obummer.  There were questions as to whether he Mirandized UFA not because it was standard practice by a civilian law enforcement agency during an arrest, but because he was following an order by Barry.  Was it overblown?  Sure...

I don't think you're getting my point.

Regardless of what Obama's opinion on the topic is or when they first started discussing the topic in relation to terrorists captured abroad, Republicans did not state that they wanted Brennan to step down because of Obama's opinion on Miranda rights and terrorists captured in foreign countries.  They were directly concerned with Brennan's actions in this particular instance.  It had nothing to do with Obama's stance on Mirandizing in foreign countries, as the Mirandizing did not occur in a foreign country.  In fact, it didn't even involve Obama, as he was not the one who gave the order.

They explicitly claimed that the policy of Mirandizing terrorists who are arrested on U.S. soil should be changed, and that those who follow that policy should step down.  They pointed to Brennan specifically, not Obama, and required that he step down because he ordered a terrorist arrested on U.S. soil to be Mirandized.  Strangely enough, Republicans had no problem with Richard Reid being Mirandized while the Bush administration was present.  They weren't attempting to punish Brennan for something he did that was in line with Obama's beliefs.  In fact, they weren't even attempting to punish Brennan for doing something that the Republicans wouldn't or didn't do.  They were attempting to force him into stepping down because he did the exact same thing that the Republicans did a year earlier.

Again, here's another example of a so-called study that's really just based on the opinions of others.  That's evidence???  Do you really think that a typical person even understands the differences across Socialism, Fascism and Communism anymore?

Yes, of course.  The fact that X number of people who watch Fox identify themselves as Republican is an opinion; it's not a fact that is verifiable in any way.  I guess counting the number of apples on a table is also opinionated.  Oh, and, let me guess, counting the number of stories on the Iraq war that treat the war in a positive manner as opposed to a negative manner is also opinionated?  Man, I didn't know that counting and deriving percentages from numbers was so opinionated...

Even if such surveys and polls are opinionated, what would you like us to do?  Nod our heads in agreement that your opinion is the correct one, regardless of what three separate surveys tell us?  Accept your opinion as the truth simply because you muttered it, regardless of the fact that you don't actually point out any premises for your conclusion?  Yes massa GarMan, we'll never stray from yo undeniably true opinions evah again.  Everuhthin' you say be the truf boss.  We won't be lissnin' to no polls that show an overwhelmin' majorituh of people think otherwise.

I have a distinct feeling that most would consider the founders of our country to be a bunch of right-wing lunatics if they were alive today.  After all, a Modern American Conservative is really only a Jeffersonian Liberal.

Unless the people polled were 300 years old and were born in the 1700's, I'm pretty sure they were answering questions about media political bias based upon our present day conceptions of what is conservative and what is liberal.  No one has claimed that Fox has a conservative bias based upon conservatism from 300 years ago; we're talking about today's political ideologies.

In fact, we're not even really talking about ideologies at all.  The polls dealt with Republicans and Democrats.  Regardless of the fact that Republicans may be acting more liberal than they have in the past, the polls are identifying that Fox has a strong Republican bias, and CBS has a strong Democratic bias.  No where in the polls did they ask about conservatism or liberalism.

By the way, I suppose "scientific consensus" is evidence too...  Once upon a time, that “scientific consensus” told us that the earth was flat.  Later, it told us that the earth was the center of the universe.  So, please permit me to be somewhat of a skeptic when it comes to opinions that somebody tabulates and publishes in a paper, and later calls a “study”.

Invalid analogy, unless you are proposing that the survey itself is flawed factually.  When people thought the Earth was flat, their premises were flawed.  They assumed a lot of things based on incorrect perceptions and a lack of technology to properly perceive celestial objects.

Taking a poll is pretty simple.  It doesn't require the invention and application of the Pythagorean Theorem or the Hubble Telescope.  You're not relying upon your perception of celestial objects millions of miles away to estimate their responses.  They identify themselves as Republican, Democrat, or other, and they tell you what their views are about specific network stations.  They also study the number of stories, the number of times journalists give their personal opinions, the number of times stories treat X issue in Y manner, etc., and then derive percentages from those numbers.  We're not dealing with the mysteries of the universe here.  We're calculating verifiable data.

Oh no! I be sorry massa! I done went and forgot that I wasn't suppose to be talkin' bout them polls.  They be the devil!  Askin' people what they thinks and then calcumulatin' percentages...those results don't be nothin' compared to you, boss!  Everuhthin' you believe is how it actually is in the world.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 09:21:39 PM by Vandy Vol »
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

CCTAU

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2010, 09:12:26 AM »
Oh no! I be sorry massa! I done went and forgot that I wasn't suppose to be talkin' bout them polls.  They be the devil!  Askin' people what they thinks and then calcumulatin' percentages...those results don't be nothin' compared to you, boss!  Everuhthin' you believe is how it actually is in the world.


Now that you have recognized your place once again, bring me a mint julep, bitch.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2010, 09:23:43 AM »
Stating that you dislike when politicians sidetrack debates by bringing up irrelevant topics and then bringing up irrelevant topics in a political discussion = hypocrisy.

At this point, you're just whining...  You can't take a friendly, light-hearted jab and move on.  And actually, this is very relevant to my original post in this thread where I contended that the Democrats have successfully redirected our focus to the "rat turds" of issues... DADT from another thread, etc...

I don't think you're getting my point.

Regardless of what Obama's opinion on the topic is or when they first started discussing the topic in relation to terrorists captured abroad, Republicans did not state that they wanted Brennan to step down because of Obama's opinion on Miranda rights and terrorists captured in foreign countries.  They were directly concerned with Brennan's actions in this particular instance.  It had nothing to do with Obama's stance on Mirandizing in foreign countries, as the Mirandizing did not occur in a foreign country.  In fact, it didn't even involve Obama, as he was not the one who gave the order.

You're completely wrong on this point.  It was Obama's espoused position regarding the Mirandizing of terrorists that brought this up as an issue in the first place.  Was Brennan adopting an unwritten Obama policy of Mirandizing terrorists, or was he just following standard operating procedure?  Was this an example of Obama's administration and lackys pushing forward the Mirandizing of terrorists?  It has everything to do with Obama, his administration and his policies.  Brennan was just the sap at the center of it.

They explicitly claimed that the policy of Mirandizing terrorists who are arrested on U.S. soil should be changed, and that those who follow that policy should step down.  They pointed to Brennan specifically, not Obama, and required that he step down because he ordered a terrorist arrested on U.S. soil to be Mirandized.  Strangely enough, Republicans had no problem with Richard Reid being Mirandized while the Bush administration was present.  They weren't attempting to punish Brennan for something he did that was in line with Obama's beliefs.  In fact, they weren't even attempting to punish Brennan for doing something that the Republicans wouldn't or didn't do.  They were attempting to force him into stepping down because he did the exact same thing that the Republicans did a year earlier.

Exactly, but that "change" was being pushed to challenge and block Obama from extending rights to terrorists.  That's it...

Yes, of course.  The fact that X number of people who watch Fox identify themselves as Republican is an opinion; it's not a fact that is verifiable in any way.  I guess counting the number of apples on a table is also opinionated.  Oh, and, let me guess, counting the number of stories on the Iraq war that treat the war in a positive manner as opposed to a negative manner is also opinionated?  Man, I didn't know that counting and deriving percentages from numbers was so opinionated... 

Well actually...  Opinions are one thing, but the quantity of apples is another. 

Even if such surveys and polls are opinionated, what would you like us to do?  

Not using them as "evidence" would be a good start.

Nod our heads in agreement... 

You've completely missed my point.  There's obviously no reasoning with you. 

Invalid analogy... 

You've missed the point again...  If you convince a bunch of Russians or North Koreans that Americans are greedy monsters who bite the heads off small children, would you rely on that focus group to conduct opinion surveys about America as relevant to Americans?  Similarly...  Nevermind...  Why am I even trying... 

It's all based on perception and points of reference.  My point of reference is clearly 2-3 generations before your's.  That's it.  I recognize the mainstream media as being far left of "my established center" with Fox only being slightly right of "my established center".  If "your established center" has grown comfortable with gay-friendly sitcoms, Oprah Winfrey and The View, you likely see things much different than I. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2010, 10:48:41 AM »
You're completely wrong on this point.  It was Obama's espoused position regarding the Mirandizing of terrorists that brought this up as an issue in the first place.  Was Brennan adopting an unwritten Obama policy of Mirandizing terrorists, or was he just following standard operating procedure?  Was this an example of Obama's administration and lackys pushing forward the Mirandizing of terrorists?  It has everything to do with Obama, his administration and his policies.  Brennan was just the sap at the center of it.

Considering that the Bush administration took the exact same actions a year earlier, it can not be argued that this is a policy implemented by the Obama administration.  Even if you stubbornly contend that it is an implementation by this administration of some unwritten law, despite the fact that it was standard operating procedure for the Bush administration, the fact still stands that the previous administration took the exact same action, yet the Republicans were not calling for anyone to step down then.

Exactly, but that "change" was being pushed to challenge and block Obama from extending rights to terrorists.  That's it...

The rights of terrorists arrested on U.S. soil to be Mirandized were already extended by the Bush administration the previous year.  There is no new extension of rights that Republicans were attempting to block, as no new rights were extended by Brennan's actions.

The government currently has Medicare, and has had it for years now.  Your argument is the equivalent of saying that the Republicans would be in the right for asking a Democrat to step down because that Democrat implemented an already existing policy regarding Medicare, simply because Obama was pushing for a new healthcare reform unrelated to Medicare.  The reform that Obama is pushing for has nothing to do with policies that have already been implemented.  If it was legal for Republicans to do it a year earlier, then there is no reason to force Brennan to step down, absent some sort of legislation passed which alters the rights of terrorists on U.S. soil.

Not using them as "evidence" would be a good start.

Then, in turn, I would ask that you stop using your sole opinion as evidence.  Afterall, if the opinions of a multitude of people surveyed don't count for anything, then your single opinion certainly doesn't.

It's all based on perception and points of reference.  My point of reference is clearly 2-3 generations before your's.  That's it.  I recognize the mainstream media as being far left of "my established center" with Fox only being slightly right of "my established center".  If "your established center" has grown comfortable with gay-friendly sitcoms, Oprah Winfrey and The View, you likely see things much different than I.  

I have no problem with this statement.  If you view Fox as slightly right of your views, then that is your opinion based upon your individual political ideology.

However, when we talk of a station having a left or right slant, we are not comparing the station to someone who is already leaning right.  That starts us out with a bias, because it makes stations which lean slightly left appear more left than they are because we're comparing them with a right-leaning individual.  Saying that something has a "left slant" means it leans to the left of something, and saying that something has a "right slant" means it leans to the right of something.  That "something" is a centrist view, which is based upon present day conceptions of Republicans and Democrats.

Even if you want to argue that the classification of what is "centrist" is an opinion and not something verifiable by data, the studies cited did not refer to centrists, conservatives and liberals; it referred to Democrats and Republicans, which are classifications that can be verified.

More self proposed Republicans watch Fox News.  The number of stories which treated the Iraq war, a war initiated by a Republican administration, in a positive light were much higher on Fox News than other news stations.  Fox News has more admitted Republican journalists and editors (many of which came from the Bush administration) than other news stations, and Fox News' journalists give their personal opinions on stories more often than other news stations.  Other stations present more points of view, whereas Fox News routinely has mostly Republicans as guests, and they present stories in a fashion that favor Republicans more often than other news stations.

These are all quantifiable and verifiable numbers that indicate that Fox News has more of a Republican lean than other stations have a Democratic lean.  Thus, they "lean Republican," or in other words favor Republicans and Republican stories, moreso than other stations "lean Democratic" or favor Democratic guests and Democratic stories.  The percentages show that they "lean Republican" moreso than other stations "lean Democratic," which shows that, relatively speaking, they have an extreme Republican slant.  Even if you feel uneasy quantifying it as "extreme," it is still statistically higher than other stations, so statements that X stations have an extreme Democratic slant while Fox has only a slight Republican slant are untrue; the statistics show that Fox's Republican slant is greater than other stations' Democratic slants.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 10:57:51 AM by Vandy Vol »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2010, 10:49:14 AM »
Now that you have recognized your place once again, bring me a mint julep, bitch.

You're in luck; my mint juleps are the bomb.
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2010, 12:59:33 PM »
Considering that the Bush administration took the exact same actions a year earlier, it can not be argued that this is a policy implemented by the Obama administration.  Even if you stubbornly contend that it is an implementation by this administration of some unwritten law, despite the fact that it was standard operating procedure for the Bush administration, the fact still stands that the previous administration took the exact same action, yet the Republicans were not calling for anyone to step down then. 

The rights of terrorists arrested on U.S. soil to be Mirandized were already extended by the Bush administration the previous year.  There is no new extension of rights that Republicans were attempting to block, as no new rights were extended by Brennan's actions.

It most certainly can be argued that this is an Obama move purely because Obama has stated this to be part of his planned policies.  It doesn't matter that it happened while Bush was in the White House, as we've already established that it was standard operating procedure at the time.  That's it!  There's nothing more to this.  You contend that under Obama, they were still acting under the standard operating procedure.  I don't necessarily disagree, but when Brennan admittedly acknowledged his intent to carry out those policies put forth by the Obama administration, the scuttlebutt ensued.  You want to call it hypocrisy...  I disagree. 

The government currently has Medicare, and has had it for years now.  Your argument is the equivalent of saying that the Republicans would be in the right for asking a Democrat to step down because that Democrat implemented an already existing policy regarding Medicare, simply because Obama was pushing for a new healthcare reform unrelated to Medicare.  The reform that Obama is pushing for has nothing to do with policies that have already been implemented.  If it was legal for Republicans to do it a year earlier, then there is no reason to force Brennan to step down, absent some sort of legislation passed which alters the rights of terrorists on U.S. soil. 

You're stretching...  Now, if Obama wanted to extend Medicare to illegal aliens and a Democrat did so with the intent to support or carry out Obama's intent, or there was suspicion of doing so, then you'd have a comparison.  For now, this means nothing.

Then, in turn, I would ask that you stop using your sole opinion as evidence.  Afterall, if the opinions of a multitude of people surveyed don't count for anything, then your single opinion certainly doesn't. 

As I've suggested, the masses are not good measures for such a determination.  Political opinion in this country changes about as frequently as the weather patterns.  Further complicating matters, we have continually downbread our society for the sake of protecting the "equality" of our lowest common denominators to the point where most can't even deliniate the differences between a Socialist, Fascist or Communist.  Do you really think a reasonable comparison could be established?  I don't for the reasons I have already stated. 

I have no problem with this statement.  If you view Fox as slightly right of your views, then that is your opinion based upon your individual political ideology.

However, when we talk of a station having a left or right slant, we are not comparing the station to someone who is already leaning right.  That starts us out with a bias, because it makes stations which lean slightly left appear more left than they are because we're comparing them with a right-leaning individual.  Saying that something has a "left slant" means it leans to the left of something, and saying that something has a "right slant" means it leans to the right of something.  That "something" is a centrist view, which is based upon present day conceptions of Republicans and Democrats.

I think we're in violent agreement here.  I just scoff at the concept of Fox being considered "undeniably pro-Republican" when they have been so critical of so many Republican politicians.  I don't see the same level of critical analysis of Democrat leaders on the Communist News Network and other lamestream outlets.  Those who seem to bitch about Fox the most have a hard leaning bias of their own. 

Even if you want to argue that the classification of what is "centrist" is an opinion and not something verifiable by data, the studies cited did not refer to centrists, conservatives and liberals; it referred to Democrats and Republicans, which are classifications that can be verified.

More self proposed Republicans watch Fox News.  The number of stories which treated the Iraq war, a war initiated by a Republican administration, in a positive light were much higher on Fox News than other news stations.  Fox News has more admitted Republican journalists and editors (many of which came from the Bush administration) than other news stations, and Fox News' journalists give their personal opinions on stories more often than other news stations.  Other stations present more points of view, whereas Fox News routinely has mostly Republicans as guests, and they present stories in a fashion that favor Republicans more often than other news stations. 

So, because the war was initiated by a "Republican" administration, any favorable story portreying the successes of the war effort are somehow biased...   :blink:  The same could be said of the lamestream media when Clinton bombed the Iraq asperin factories, but that probably slipped the minds of those being polled in these so-called studies.  Do you understand my point there? 

These are all quantifiable and verifiable numbers that indicate that Fox News has more of a Republican lean than other stations have a Democratic lean.  Thus, they "lean Republican," or in other words favor Republicans and Republican stories, moreso than other stations "lean Democratic" or favor Democratic guests and Democratic stories.  The percentages show that they "lean Republican" moreso than other stations "lean Democratic," which shows that, relatively speaking, they have an extreme Republican slant.  Even if you feel uneasy quantifying it as "extreme," it is still statistically higher than other stations, so statements that X stations have an extreme Democratic slant while Fox has only a slight Republican slant are untrue; the statistics show that Fox's Republican slant is greater than other stations' Democratic slants. 
 

If you understand my point above, these "quantifiable and verifiable numbers" are a joke at best.  When the lamestream media references GWB with such inconsistencies as "Bush", "Mr. Bush" and other non-authoritative titles, while referencing The Obama as "The President" and "President Obama" (They did the same with Clinton, by the way, against Bush 41 and Bush 43.), would you not think this undermining disrespect plays on the minds of the masses thereby moving the so-called center a little more to the left over time? 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2010, 01:35:56 PM »
Yessuh boss!  I'll never read a study again!  I just be lissnin' to yo words when I be needin' the truf.
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2010, 04:46:52 PM »
Yessuh boss!  I'll never read a study again!  I just be lissnin' to yo words when I be needin' the truf.

Figures...  So, if I understand your sarcasim, you don't believe that our society is moving more and more to the left every generation.  Where the center is located today is where the center has always been...  The left hasn't flooded the schools and media with their finest neer-do-wells...  And, political opinion is about as fixed as hot and cold...  Right!

And, the world is flat.
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2010, 05:17:49 PM »
Figures...  So, if I understand your sarcasim, you don't believe that our society is moving more and more to the left every generation.  Where the center is located today is where the center has always been...  The left hasn't flooded the schools and media with their finest neer-do-wells...  And, political opinion is about as fixed as hot and cold...  Right!

And, the world is flat.

Yessuh boss! Despite the fact that the poll be speakin' of Demuhcrats and Republiguns, which I be thinkin' was identimifiable political parties and not them vague opinioniminated ideologies you be speakin' of, I see the erruhs in muh ways and don't question you at all, massa!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 05:22:26 PM by Vandy Vol »
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2010, 08:21:43 PM »
Yessuh boss! Despite the fact that the poll be speakin' of Demuhcrats and Republiguns, which I be thinkin' was identimifiable political parties and not them vague opinioniminated ideologies you be speakin' of, I see the erruhs in muh ways and don't question you at all, massa! 

Right...  How's that economic system in Kenya working out, boy?   :rimshot:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2010, 05:19:07 AM »
How's that war going in the fictitious country of "Afghanastan," old man?  Have you visited the region so that you can bestow upon us your infallible personal opinion?  If not, then would you rely upon surveys and studies to inform you about what's going on in make believe land?
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2010, 12:24:31 PM »
How's that war going in the fictitious country of "Afghanastan," old man?
That one-letter-typo has got you all up in a tizzy...  At least, I didn't go into a know-it-all wiki rant over something I didn't understand.  How's this for stats and evidence for you, boy?

Wow...  It looks like that right-wing, pro-Republican Fox News has something that some of those other media outlets are missing...  I think they call them viewers.  It must be another one of those "vast right-wing conspiracies"!!! 

Quote
Cable News Ratings for Thursday, February 25, 2010
Posted on 26 February 2010 by Bill Gorman

Live + Same Day Cable News Daily Ratings for February 25, 2010

P2+ Total Day
FNC – 1,658,000 viewers
CNN – 719,000 viewers
MSNBC –755,000 viewers
CNBC – 273,000 viewers
HLN – 327,000 viewers

P2+ Prime Time
FNC – 2,857,000 viewers
CNN – 709,000 viewers
MSNBC –1,845,000 viewers
CNBC – 248,000 viewers
HLN –612,000 viewers

http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/cable-news
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2010, 02:28:59 PM »
Kind of like a transposition of letters has you in a tizzy?  Tit for tat, old man.

Oh, and I wasn't aware that the Rasmussen Reports, Pew Research Center and Journalism.org were "wiki rants."  At any rate, I would rather go into an informed know-it-all rant that utilizes some form of evidence than an egotistical know-it-all rant based upon my own opinion and my comparisons of news stations to my own individual political stances.

As far as the ratings, I could care less for three reasons:

1.)  I rarely watch television, especially not television news, so I don't have any allegiances to stations or shows.  I could give a rat's ass if Sesame Street's Christmas Special gets more viewers in one day than any news station does in a ten year period.

2.)  The number of viewers that a station has does not prove or disprove anything about the political slant of the station.  For whatever reason, you've decided to proudly cite this poll as if it has some bearing on the current discussion regarding Fox News.

3.)  You've cried about the unreliability of polls, surveys and studies in two different threads, and have done so in this thread for the past three days, yet now you've resorted to citing to one in order to make some irrelevant point.  Hypocrisy yet again.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 02:46:38 PM by Vandy Vol »
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2010, 01:08:57 AM »
Kind of like a transposition of letters has you in a tizzy?  Tit for tat, old man. 

Keep your tits and your tats to yourself, buttercup.  At least, I didn't blather about some off-topic subject with a know-it-all attitutude and chip on my shoulder...  But, that's just your style.  Whatever works for you... 

Oh, and I wasn't aware that the Rasmussen Reports, Pew Research Center and Journalism.org were "wiki rants."  At any rate, I would rather go into an informed know-it-all rant that utilizes some form of evidence than an... 

Well actually, the concept of wiki means...  Oh nevermind...  I forgot that you're almighty and omnipotent. 

... egotistical know-it-all rant based upon my own opinion and my comparisons of news stations to my own individual political stances. 

My apologies...  You're too young/inexperienced to have that discussion from personal experience.  I should have done a better job identifying with you and sizing you up appropriately.  You likely haven't observed much of what I've referenced, so it likely sounded "egotistical" as you say.  My bad...  Live through a few generations of downbreeding like affirmative action and political correctness, and we'll revisit this from a personal perspective.  Of course by then, the blame-America-first lamestream media (aka. DNCTV) will likely be out of business, but I'm sure the Democrats will be funding a government-run news organization by then. 

As far as the ratings, I could care less for three reasons: 

Let me know when you have something intelligent to say without having to Google it. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand