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Are You Serious?

AUChizad

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Are You Serious?
« on: February 22, 2010, 11:11:13 PM »
I know you all saw this (and the same people that defend her are the ones that relentlessly bash Obama for using a teleprompter).


But then this? Really?



This looks like a Daily Show joke or something.
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Saniflush

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 07:33:06 AM »
Negative sir. 
I only make fun of the president and his teleprompters when it is put to me that he is such a great orator. A great orator needs no such items.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

AUTailgatingRules

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 11:37:31 AM »
Negative sir. 
I only make fun of the president and his teleprompters when it is put to me that he is such a great orator. A great orator needs no such items.

A great orator does not need a teleprompter while speaking to 6th graders

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AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 01:22:05 PM »
Thread is missing the point.

Writing on your hand is acting like a 6th grader.

But the thread wasn't even about that. It's that apparently the Republican party has embraced Palin's dumbassery as some kind of symbol of strength?

WTF.
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AWK

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 01:24:57 PM »
Palin is a dumbass, should be expected.
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Saniflush

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 01:25:05 PM »
Thread is missing the point.

Writing on your hand is acting like a 6th grader.

But the thread wasn't even about that. It's that apparently the Republican party has embraced Palin's dumbassery as some kind of symbol of strength?

WTF.

I think they all suck camel ballz.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

AUTailgatingRules

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 01:59:22 PM »
Thread is missing the point.

Writing on your hand is acting like a 6th grader.

But the thread wasn't even about that. It's that apparently the Republican party has embraced Palin's dumbassery as some kind of symbol of strength?

WTF.

In my opinion Palin has no chance at the presidency.  I don't think writing a few notes on your hand is that big of a deal.   That being said the comercial is pretty stupid.  Palin has a connection with alot of the flyover folks because they feel that she understands them on their level.  To try and piggy back on her popularity with a commersial like this just fails on so many levels.

All that being said, I hope she sticks around for a while because I like looking at her.  She is incredibly hot to me.
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 02:00:26 PM »
Now explain the teleprompter to the 6th graders.  Imagine the media reaction had Bush done this.
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AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 02:22:39 PM »
Now explain the teleprompter to the 6th graders.  Imagine the media reaction had Bush done this.
Well, Obama's people claim that he was only using the teleprompters and had the podium with the presidential seal for his address to the media, not the students.

Bullshit? Probably. Bad photo opp regardless? Definitely.

It's pretty bad PR, no doubt. I agree Bush would have caught hell for it, but Obama's getting his fair share over it as well. Especially when Palin's reading self-jotted notes off her hand like that. If you're going to consider her a legitimate Republican politician, you lose the right to joke about teleprompters when she's writing shit on her hand like a 6th grade cheater.
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 02:33:49 PM »
Well, Obama's people claim that he was only using the teleprompters and had the podium with the presidential seal for his address to the media, not the students.

Bullshit? Probably. Bad photo opp regardless? Definitely.

It's pretty bad PR, no doubt. I agree Bush would have caught hell for it, but Obama's getting his fair share over it as well. Especially when Palin's reading self-jotted notes off her hand like that. If you're going to consider her a legitimate Republican politician, you lose the right to joke about teleprompters when she's writing shit on her hand like a 6th grade cheater.

1st, I don't think she has any chance at the big show. therefore I can ridicule the prompter at a 6th grade event.  

If a few notes (6th grade cheating) is bad, he brought the whole fucking book with him to cheat from.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 05:02:35 PM by AUTailgatingRules »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 04:03:05 PM »
I think the difference is style.  I don't know that anyone should get up in arms about a president using a teleprompter.  That goes for both sides of the political fence, considering that Reagan used a teleprompter.  It's not "cheating" for a politician to write a speech (or have a speech written for them, in most instances) and then read that speech off of paper or a teleprompter.  Afterall, if you think that most politicians give impromptu speeches, then you obviously have no clue about how politics work.  They always write their speeches before hand, or at the very least have some structure planned out.  The fact that they use notes, a teleprompter, or their hand to recall what they planned is not what I would consider cheating.  They are simply different styles used for recalling and delivering (or simply reading) a speech.

The issue with Palin is that she just looks silly when she pauses and looks down at her hand.  The purpose of a teleprompter is to allow the speaker to maintain eye contact with the audience (or at least to give the appearance of eye contact).  Obama does very well at reading a teleprompter.  So did Reagan.  Not everyone can do it.  Palin not only broke eye contact, which is fine, but she did so to look at her hand.  It simply screams "I'm unprofessional" to have something written on your hand.

The teleprompter is merely a performance device.  It doesn’t write the speech or control what is being said.  Arguably, Palin's hand is a performance device, but it was very unprofessional looking and awkward when she paused, looked at her hand, and then continued.  It's not the fact that she had notes or even that she paused to look at them; it was the nature of the location of the notes that made it seem childish.  That is not an action that you expect from an adult, much less an adult who is supposedly in contention for a position of power.
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jadennis

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 04:39:01 PM »
I agree that the hand notes looks very unprofessional, and it is.  But to me, here is one main difference.  One, you are speaking freely, and the other is contrived or at the least very, very controlled.

Leaving Palin and Obama out of the specifics, here is why I like the "idea" of the notes on the hand and why I don't like the teleprompter for every public speaking engagement. 

Example 1.

If you asked me to speak for 30 minutes about Auburn football, I could do it...from the heart.  I  may need 3 or 4 "points" jotted down on a napkin to remind me to discuss or expand on certain topics...but once the note triggered the topic, I could just start talking.  I would have nothing to hide, I could speak freely from what I really believe and what I really feel about Auburn football.

Example 2.

Now let's say a professor at Auburn was asked to professionally give a speech about the Auburn football program.  Let's say that secretly, in his own heart and deepest thoughts, he kind of resents the football program.  He has a problem with the money thrown around, the salaries, the facilities, etc.  He has a problem with the focus it is given in our society, etc.  If he were in charge, he would begin a slow process to change things.  However, because he is a professional, and because he was asked to do it, he will give a speech from a teleprompter about the Auburn football program.  He will cover all the highlights, as well as all the important numbers and stats.

In this instance, the teleprompter is necessary.  If the professor were to speak freely, or openly, probably somewhere along the way his true beliefs wold leak out.  Maybe even subtly and unintentionally.

To me, the second example above is Obama.  He says what needs to be said in front of the cameras.

Using a teleprompter in general?  No big deal.  It's used all the time to give important speeches and address the nation, has been for years.  But I don't think Reagan was ever hiding behind it.  I think had it gone down in the middle of a speech, he could have just spoken from his heart about what he was talking about and it would have been just as effective.  He saw the world and America one way and he had nothing to hide about those beliefs and views.

I don't think Obama could pull that off.  If he was left to speaking from his heart and mind on matters in America, we would likely see a completely different person, if only in a few phrases or words.  I think we would see hints of the man that sat in front of Jeremiah Wright for 20 years.  That is the man inside Obama, which is not the man America gets reading from a teleprompter. 

As for Palin....who cares.  There are certain things I like about her, but to me, she will live on as a conservative mouth piece, nothing more.  I would be shocked to ever see her put on any road to the White House again.  It was a desperate move that was viewed as good given the circumstances at the time.  Unless the Republicans are complete morons (which could be the case), they won't let it get to that again.

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Tiger Wench

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 05:00:38 PM »
On the other hand (haha) - part of Palin's appeal to the mainstream is that she acts like "one of us normal folks".  Writing notes on your hand may be unprofessional for a professional pundit, but she hadn't been one for long.  I guarantee that some folks connected with and indentified with that move, and like her even more for doing it.
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AWK

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 05:08:42 PM »
On the other hand (haha) - part of Palin's appeal to the mainstream is that she acts like "one of us normal folks".  Writing notes on your hand may be unprofessional for a professional pundit, but she hadn't been one for long.  I guarantee that some folks connected with and indentified with that move, and like her even more for doing it.
Seriously? Would you want a CEO giving a speech with notes scrabbled on their hand like a child?  Much less the President? C'mon... Palin is just blehhh.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 05:09:16 PM by AWK »
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AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 05:10:21 PM »
On the other hand (haha) - part of Palin's appeal to the mainstream is that she acts like "one of us normal folks".  Writing notes on your hand may be unprofessional for a professional pundit, but she hadn't been one for long.  I guarantee that some folks connected with and indentified with that move, and like her even more for doing it.
As evidenced by the campaign commercial.

That, in my opinion, is a sad commentary on modern Republicans.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »
I agree that the hand notes looks very unprofessional, and it is.  But to me, here is one main difference.  One, you are speaking freely, and the other is contrived or at the least very, very controlled.

Leaving Palin and Obama out of the specifics, here is why I like the "idea" of the notes on the hand and why I don't like the teleprompter for every public speaking engagement. 

Example 1.

If you asked me to speak for 30 minutes about Auburn football, I could do it...from the heart.  I  may need 3 or 4 "points" jotted down on a napkin to remind me to discuss or expand on certain topics...but once the note triggered the topic, I could just start talking.  I would have nothing to hide, I could speak freely from what I really believe and what I really feel about Auburn football.

Example 2.

Now let's say a professor at Auburn was asked to professionally give a speech about the Auburn football program.  Let's say that secretly, in his own heart and deepest thoughts, he kind of resents the football program.  He has a problem with the money thrown around, the salaries, the facilities, etc.  He has a problem with the focus it is given in our society, etc.  If he were in charge, he would begin a slow process to change things.  However, because he is a professional, and because he was asked to do it, he will give a speech from a teleprompter about the Auburn football program.  He will cover all the highlights, as well as all the important numbers and stats.

In this instance, the teleprompter is necessary.  If the professor were to speak freely, or openly, probably somewhere along the way his true beliefs wold leak out.  Maybe even subtly and unintentionally.

To me, the second example above is Obama.  He says what needs to be said in front of the cameras.

That's politics, plain and simple.  Always has been, and probably always will be.  Politicians don't get up and speak what they think; they say what they think you want to hear.  As a result, their speeches are vague.  They often speak of results and not the steps to get to the result.  Speeches aren't tailored to effectively communicate the individual's idea; they're tailored to effectively communicate something vague enough that the majority of people will agree with it.

If any one person were to get up and publicly speak their views on a variety of topics in an honest manner, then they likely would not be elected by a majority vote.  It's just how politics work.  Does a teleprompter cause this?  No.  Can it be used to allow a person who doesn't passionately believe in something to effectively speak on that particular topic?  Sure, but so can printed notes, note cards with handwritten notes, or notes on your hand.

You wouldn't get up in front of a class to give a speech on which you are being graded without preparing for it.  And, in all likelihood, you wouldn't give the speech without notes (assuming it were allowed).  Passionately believing in the topic and having knowledge of the topic isn't going to change that.  You're going to want to prepare a speech in a structured manner, and you want to give that speech in a structured manner.  Notes, via teleprompter or otherwise, give you a better chance of achieving that goal.  Politicians are being "graded" by the number of votes they receive and their approval rating after the election.  You don't leave something like that in the hands of impromptu speeches, just as you wouldn't leave your semester grade to extemporaneous ramblings of knowledge that may or may not have a coherent structure.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 05:42:11 PM »
On the other hand (haha) - part of Palin's appeal to the mainstream is that she acts like "one of us normal folks".  Writing notes on your hand may be unprofessional for a professional pundit, but she hadn't been one for long.  I guarantee that some folks connected with and indentified with that move, and like her even more for doing it.

I don't quite know about that.  I mean, I hear people all of the time talking about how they want "normal folks" and "average people" in office.  But is that really true?  Your average person can't control his or her own debt, much less an entire nation's debt.  Your average person doesn't know where most countries are located, much less know the culture of them or have any idea of how to interact with them.

Based upon past elections, the public doesn't seem to want your average person either.  They may state that they do, but their actions speak differently.  Only nine presidents didn't have college educations, and those were prior to 1885.  Our last four presidents graduated from ivy league schools, and fourteen presidents total had degrees from ivy league schools.  Stanford, Duke, Georgetown and William and Mary are some of the non-ivy league schools from which seven presidents graduated.  Ten presidents obtained degrees beyond the collegiate level.

I personally don't want an "average person" taking control of the country.  I don't want someone who can't take the time to make actual notes before a public appearance, and instead chooses to scribble something on her hand, resulting in her looking unprofessional when she has to refer to the apparently impromptu notes.  I don't want someone with average knowledge having to tackle issues and dilemmas that are orders of magnitude larger and more complex than what is dealt with in his or her average life.  As much charismatic appeal as an average person might have, I don't want my leaders to win a popularity contest based upon how much they remind someone of their good ole average neighbor Joe.  I want them capable of doing their job, and displaying a lack of professionalism doesn't instill confidence in me regarding their capabilities.

Although I don't want an average person in office, I would hope that even your average person would realize the seriousness of the office they seek and would attempt to carry themselves with an air of professionalism.  Palin even lacks that respect for the seriousness of being a leader.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 05:46:26 PM by Vandy Vol »
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jadennis

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 05:57:29 PM »
That's politics, plain and simple.  Always has been, and probably always will be.  Politicians don't get up and speak what they think; they say what they think you want to hear.  As a result, their speeches are vague.  They often speak of results and not the steps to get to the result.  Speeches aren't tailored to effectively communicate the individual's idea; they're tailored to effectively communicate something vague enough that the majority of people will agree with it.

If any one person were to get up and publicly speak their views on a variety of topics in an honest manner, then they likely would not be elected by a majority vote.  It's just how politics work.  Does a teleprompter cause this?  No.  Can it be used to allow a person who doesn't passionately believe in something to effectively speak on that particular topic?  Sure, but so can printed notes, note cards with handwritten notes, or notes on your hand.

You wouldn't get up in front of a class to give a speech on which you are being graded without preparing for it.  And, in all likelihood, you wouldn't give the speech without notes (assuming it were allowed).  Passionately believing in the topic and having knowledge of the topic isn't going to change that.  You're going to want to prepare a speech in a structured manner, and you want to give that speech in a structured manner.  Notes, via teleprompter or otherwise, give you a better chance of achieving that goal.  Politicians are being "graded" by the number of votes they receive and their approval rating after the election.  You don't leave something like that in the hands of impromptu speeches, just as you wouldn't leave your semester grade to extemporaneous ramblings of knowledge that may or may not have a coherent structure.

Don't disagree with any of that, not at all.  I guess the main point of what I was feeling is better conveyed outside of being specifically related to the teleprompter.  That just happens to be what got me onto the broader subject of Obama and his authenticity (or lack thereof in my eyes) in general.

The thing is, most politicians are taking what they generally believe or what their basic philosophy is and putting it into "political speech" format.  The essence doesn't change at it's core.  It's still there, it's just put on paper in speech format and varies to some degree from it's center in order to make it appealing to as many voters as possible....no question about that.

However, to me, Reagan could take what was in that political speech, or more specifically what was the heart of the motivation of that speech, and also sit down and speak about it in layman's terms.  I don't think speaking from the heart would have been dangerous for him to do in an interview.  He wouldn't have had to guard his words and ideas so much for fear of being "found out" or revealing his true beliefs or intentions.  

To me, and this is my opinion only, I don't think Obama could do that.  I don't think the guarding of his words wouldn't be so much for fear of accidentally saying something in the wrong way or slipping with a "bad sound bite", but rather, he couldn't do it because if the motivation and essence of what he actually believes came out, he'd be in trouble.  As I mentioned above, every politicians "public version" of his philosophy varies slightly from reality.  But I suspect Obama's is nearly unrecognizable from what he sells to voters and what his core beliefs and philosophies are.

To me, that's the difference.  Obama supporters can roll their eyes when it comes to the Jeremiah Wright situation, but to me, that still tells me as much about Obama the man as anything he has done (right on par with the budget he's sent to congress, which should tell us a lot).  

If you can sit under the teachings of Jeremiah Wright, and do so regularly and willingly, actually endorsing him as a leader and your personal spiritual teacher along the way....you have some seriously misguided views and stances on America and Americans.  

Why do people go to the churches they go to?  It's because they place their trust in the message and the theology that is being presented.  Unfortunately most pick one that simply doesn't offend them or one that agrees with their own sovereign self.  So in order to sit in a church and listen to the message for 20 years, you simply must agree with the foundation of the message.  If it conflicted with your beliefs or with the theology that you submit yourself to, then you would leave.  I would not be comfortable in a Mormon church.  It would take me one or two sermons in that church to determine that the influence of what was being said was not from a source of theology that I lend any credibility to.  So I would not go back.  No hard feelings, nothing malicious about it, it just simply wouldn't make sense for me to stay there.

Yet, for 20 years, there he sat.  Listening to this man insult and blame whites for any and every bad thing (from HIV to liquor stores in black neighborhoods), blame Katrina on the government, and all kinds of other things that should be and are considered wacko fringe theories.  Anyway, I think Obama, more than any politician I've read about, hides who he is and what he believes from us, the people that elected him.  

By the way, the above section about Wright has just about zero to do with "religion" or a stance on "God".  It's more about hate, blame, and responsibility.  It just happened to be taught in a church.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2010, 06:40:52 PM »
I don't know everything about the situation with Jeremiah Wright.  To my knowledge, the controversial comments taken from his sermons came from 2001 and 2003, approximately 15 years after Obama had first met Wright.  To be honest, I can agree with his comments from 2001.  I don't think he worded them as he should have, but his implicit acknowledgment of America's meddling in the Middle East as a cause of the terrorist attacks is something that I agree with.  I don't think it justified the terrorist attacks on America in any way, but I think if we had simply kept to our own business and stopped spending so much money on forcing peace in that region, we could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.

Now, his comments in 2003 about the government lying about their knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack, the government lying about WMDs and how they would plant them just like the LAPD, and "God damn America," those were extremely absurd.  There may have been truth to some of those statements, but the manner in which he spoke them were simply uncalled for, and the parallels he made concerning the treatment of the Japanese were not analogous at all.

Those comments are all I know of Jeremiah Wright, and they came 15 years after Obama met him.  It's possible that Wright's demeanor became more bitter and racist over the years, and it's possible that he's always been like this; I don't know.  It's possible that Obama didn't see this side of him until later, and that by then he stuck with the church because Wright was going to retire soon, and it's possible that Obama always knew this side of him; I don't know.  What I know of Wright is limited, and what I know of why Obama stayed with the church is nothing, as I can't see into his brain.  Regardless of the Wright controversy, I haven't heard anything like that come from Obama, teleprompter or not.  And I can't definitively state that his use of a teleprompter is an effective means by which he hides his Wrightisms.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 07:12:45 PM »
Sorry for the multiple posts for one reply, but the whole issue with Reagan was something I failed to address.  Reagan made use of teleprompters very much.  He was a great orator, yes.  He was able to bring emotion into his speeches, yes.  But did he actually stray from the teleprompter?  I don't know; I wasn't there to see what the teleprompter stated and what he said.  Did he write his own speeches?  Possibly, but according to the odds, most presidents don't.  So were his words heartfelt, expressive of his own views, and not dictated by a teleprompter?  Possibly, possibly not.  All I know is that his "face to face" emotional speeches to America from his office were conducted with the aid of a teleprompter.  I can't definitively say that Reagan strayed from the prepared text to give his personal opinions anymore than I can say that Obama sticks strictly to the teleprompter in an attempt to hide his personal opinions.
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