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Birmingham officially sucks more...

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #180 on: February 18, 2010, 10:35:21 AM »
I know what you mean. I used to be a staunch hard-right Republican in my youth.

I was an officer in Auburn University College Republicans. Now that I'm pushing 30 I wish I had known better.
Hah, zing.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #181 on: February 18, 2010, 10:38:03 AM »
Of course.  I never said that we played a small role.  Rather, what I have been asserting is that we played one of the smaller roles.  The number of people who voted for Obama in the 45-64 age group (23 million) was almost the total number of people 18-29 who voted for either candidate (24 million total voters 18-29).  The 30-44 age group had 3 million more votes than the 18-29 age group, as we already discussed.

My point was not to suggest that our age group had no role, nor was it to suggest that the majority of our age group did not support Obama.  Rather, my point was to show that we did not have as large of an impact on the election as the older age groups who are complaining that the younguns ruined the country by electing Obama.  Of the four age groups, the youngest actually supplied the third largest number of votes.  Of the four age groups, two of the older ones have more voters and would be able to outvote us if we were single handedly ruining the country with our votes.  Yet, those two generations supplied more votes to Obama than the younger generation.  That was my only point.

I think you and Tarheel are both right in your assessments, it's just a matter of what is being focused on.

I'll make an analogy to a basketball game.

Let's say, in a fictional world, Auburn beats Kentucky 92 to 87.  After the game, someone asks Lebo how they pulled it off.  He says "well, the difference in the game was our free throws.  We got to the line 28 times and made 23 of them.  That's pretty damn good and was what put us over the edge in this game.  Without getting to the line, and without shooting 82%, we wouldn't have won that game".

This concept and assessment by Lebo would make total sense to the reporters and anyone listening or anyone that watched the game, and anyone that had followed the two teams.  No one, not a single person anywhere, would try to correct Lebo and say "yeah, but coach, the free throws played a role, but didn't you score more points from regular two point and three point baskets?  I mean, didn't those points actually contribute more to the win than the free throws?  They were only 23 of your total 92 points.  Your two point baskets accounted for 42 of your 92 points.  And your 9 three pointers accounted for 27 of your points".

Of course, the guy from the Birmingham News would be right, Auburn did get more points from the other two places.  But Lebo, and Kentucky, knows that the difference....what was unique, or what had an unusual impact on the game...were the free throws.  Both how many were taken and how many were made.  That would be what stands out.

So while you are correct, the 18-29 year olds didn't comprise the largest number of voters, just like reporter was right about the 2 and 3 points baskets....but it was, in a lot of ways, like the free throws.  The 68% of that group, which was an unusually large group in 2008, could easily be considered the "difference maker" in the election/game.  

Anyway, there is no arguing with the numbers posted.  The 18-29 year olds were not the largest group of voters to vote for Obama.  Tarheel isn't arguing that they were.  But it seems that you could also bend a little and see the other perspective that their impact on the election was larger than their numbers would indicate.  Their votes were the "23 of 28 from the line" that helped them win.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #182 on: February 18, 2010, 10:52:05 AM »
So while you are correct, the 18-29 year olds didn't comprise the largest number of voters, just like reporter was right about the 2 and 3 points baskets....but it was, in a lot of ways, like the free throws.  The 68% of that group, which was an unusually large group in 2008, could easily be considered the "difference maker" in the election/game.  

JA, this is what I have been trying to get across to our Vanderbilt friend. I never argued the numbers game. I simply said that group was the difference in 2008. If they had voted 66% and came out in those numbers in 2000/2004, Bush would not have gotten elected. Not even close.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #183 on: February 18, 2010, 10:56:13 AM »
I know what you mean. I used to be a staunch hard-right Republican in my youth.

I was an officer in Auburn University College Republicans. Now that I'm pushing 30 I wish I had known better.

Just curious, because I have no personal issues with you in the least, and actually enjoy the discussions....but what, in general, do you wish you "had known better" back then that you know now?

And, and I could be wrong on this, but I don't know that CC was so much saying that once you grow up you'll be a Republican, but maybe that, as was / is the case with all of us, we reassess and change our beliefs as we grow older.  As we grow older we experience more and see things more for what they really are, and less for the ideology that things portray.

A good example would be the 68% of the 18-29 that voted for Obama.  My guess is that when that group is 38-49, at least 68% of that 68% will think "what the hell was I thinking?".  They may already be thinking this.  

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe they know exactly what they were voting for and actually do want us to be an enormous, government-run European state.  But even if that's what they think they want....I think if they live under that for a while, they will long to be America again.

Anyway, back to my original question, just curious about the things you wish you had known back then that you know now.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 10:57:57 AM by jadennis »
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AUTiger1

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #184 on: February 18, 2010, 12:12:52 PM »
Funny, when I was a teenager and younger I was fairly liberal on everything.  Once I got a little older, got a job, and played "grown-up" I realized that my views needed to change.  I am now more conservative than ever with most policy issues.  Social issues I seem to lean more towards "I don't give a fuck, just don't infringe on my freedoms or privacy and make me try to accept it".

Seriously though, why are we arguing over beer and radio stations when the biggest problem we face is that the economy is in the shitter and is getting worse?   Lets fix the big issues and then worry about the little petty shit for a later date.  This is what pisses me off about our Government on both levels.  EX.  Several years back we actually called in a session to change the name of the state song.  Fuck that shit, worry about businesses going bankrupt,  schools being FUBAR and what we can do to fix it.  Deal with that petty kind of shit later on when things are running good. 
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

AWK

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #185 on: February 18, 2010, 12:16:18 PM »
Funny, when I was a teenager and younger I was fairly liberal on everything.  Once I got a little older, got a job, and played "grown-up" I realized that my views needed to change.  I am now more conservative than ever with most policy issues.  Social issues I seem to lean more towards "I don't give a fuck, just don't infringe on my freedoms or privacy and make me try to accept it".

Seriously though, why are we arguing over beer and radio stations when the biggest problem we face is that the economy is in the shitter and is getting worse?   Lets fix the big issues and then worry about the little petty shit for a later date.  This is what pisses me off about our Government on both levels.  EX.  Several years back we actually called in a session to change the name of the state song.  Fuck that shit, worry about businesses going bankrupt,  schools being FUBAR and what we can do to fix it.  Deal with that petty kind of shit later on when things are running good. 
I completely agree with you.  However, the thing that government is best at is being ineffective.
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AUChizad

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #186 on: February 18, 2010, 12:21:41 PM »
Anyway, back to my original question, just curious about the things you wish you had known back then that you know now.
To be honest, I'd rather not get into a holy war on specific issues. At least not today. Not in this thread. In summation, I'm talking about the social side of conservatism. I'm still economically quite conservative.
Funny, when I was a teenager and younger I was fairly liberal on everything.  Once I got a little older, got a job, and played "grown-up" I realized that my views needed to change.  I am now more conservative than ever with most policy issues.  Social issues I seem to lean more towards "I don't give a fuck, just don't infringe on my freedoms or privacy and make me try to accept it".

Seriously though, why are we arguing over beer and radio stations when the biggest problem we face is that the economy is in the shitter and is getting worse?   Lets fix the big issues and then worry about the little petty shit for a later date.  This is what pisses me off about our Government on both levels.  EX.  Several years back we actually called in a session to change the name of the state song.  Fuck that shit, worry about businesses going bankrupt,  schools being FUBAR and what we can do to fix it.  Deal with that petty kind of shit later on when things are running good.  
Sounds like we agree mostly then. On social issues, I lean heavily towards it's none of anyone's fuckin business what other people choose to do with their lives.

In terms of how this Free The Hops initiative (and legalizing gambling, for that matter), are "petty issues" while our economy is in the shitter, I disagree.

I think doing away with restrictions on these businesses that would bring new jobs into Alabama can only be a good thing. Unless you know of a magic wand that "fixes" the economy some other way.

Oh, and as for the radio station thing, that was just Jeff bitching. No one was advocating any kind of political action or anything. Just venting about how it sucks that a good station is going away.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 12:37:54 PM by AUChizad »
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AUTiger1

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #187 on: February 18, 2010, 12:35:04 PM »
To be honest, I'd rather not get into a holy war on specific issues. At least not today. Not in this thread. In summation, I'm talking about the social side of conservatism. I'm still economically quite conservative.Sounds like we agree mostly then. On social issues, I lean heavily towards it's none of anyone's phukin business what other people choose to do with their lives.

In terms of how this Free The Hops initiative (and legalizing gambling, for that matter), are "petty issues" while our economy is in the poopter, I disagree.

I think restrictions on these businesses that would bring new jobs into Alabama can only be a good thing. Unless you know of a magic wand that "fixes" the economy some other way.

Oh, and as for the radio station thing, that was just Jeff bitching. No one was advocating any kind of political action or anything. Just venting about how it sucks that a good station is going away.

Now legalizing gambling is a great place to start......Free the Hops initiative, I don't think will do as much for the economy of this state than some do.  Yeah it will create some jobs, but the main distributors will keep them beat down by price cuts and cutting their own throats that it will not amount to much.  People (even me) are buying cheap poop in hard times.  I am buying KY Gentlemen right now, I am in danger of losing my job, times are though and I will drink what is cheaper until times get better.  I would rather be buying Makers but I can get twice as much KY Gentlemen for the same price.  Most others in my position will be doing the same thing.

I would have voted for the lottery bill that Folsom tried to pass, but it was poorly written with no account on where revenue and percentages were to be allocated.  Give me something with structure and where "we" (the people) can see where it is being spent and hold them accountable, then I will be the first out there to drum up support.  Like I said in another thread, w/o that, it doesn't get my support.  I don't trust the phuking phukers! :)

No magic wand but the first step to fixing the economy is to cut spending, and put more dollars in the peoples pocket to spend.  Not the only step, but would be a nice first step.

It's hard to keep up with how threads get hijacked (reason #1239846578 to love the X), but I had forgot what the OP was about.


EDIT:  I can honestly understand where Kaos is coming from in these threads.  Not that I agree or disagree with him everytime, but  I definitely see where he is coming from and can respect it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 12:37:09 PM by AUTiger1 »
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #188 on: February 18, 2010, 12:40:26 PM »


It's hard to keep up with how threads get hijacked (reason #1239846578 to love the X), but I had forgot what the OP was about.

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AUTiger1

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #189 on: February 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM »
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #190 on: February 18, 2010, 12:51:49 PM »


I would do the luge with her.  And probably jizz in my pants as well.
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Tarheel

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #191 on: February 18, 2010, 01:44:42 PM »
Great to see that this thread has a TigersX appropriate happy ending.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #192 on: February 18, 2010, 01:47:57 PM »

Scoundrel! How did you get your hands on these compromising photos of my Olivia. She intended them for my eyes only!
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AUTiger1

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #193 on: February 18, 2010, 02:36:17 PM »
Great to see that this thread has a TigersX appropriate happy ending.

I do what I can!


Scoundrel! How did you get your hands on these compromising photos of my Olivia. She intended them for my eyes only!

Sorry man, she told me she loved me and I could have them. 

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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #194 on: February 18, 2010, 02:58:57 PM »
Just curious, because I have no personal issues with you in the least, and actually enjoy the discussions....but what, in general, do you wish you "had known better" back then that you know now?



Everything that he now knows to be "bullshit" from the greatest of all philosophers, Penn & Teller.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #195 on: February 18, 2010, 06:17:49 PM »
JA, this is what I have been trying to get across to our Vanderbilt friend. I never argued the numbers game. I simply said that group was the difference in 2008. If they had voted 66% and came out in those numbers in 2000/2004, Bush would not have gotten elected. Not even close.

The difference in the youth vote isn't as great as it's being made out to be.  For example, in 2004, the 18-29 year old voters made up 17% of total voters, whereas in 2008 they were 18%.  More people may have voted in the 2008 election, but the proportions of voters were relatively the same. Yes, more youth voted for Obama in 2008 than they did Kerry in 2004.  However, more 30-44 year olds voted for Bush in 2004 than they did McCain in 2008.  And more 45-65 year olds voted for Bush in 2004 than they did McCain in 2008.  The changes in voting patterns that led to Obama's victory are seen in several generations, not just the younger generation.  Saying that the youth was "the" difference is ignoring the differences seen in more than one generation.

Going with the basketball analogy, if a team wins by three, it would be the equivalent of saying that one player's three point shot was more important than another player's three made free throws, or another players 10 points.  It was a team effort, and it took all of their cumulative points to win.  Those who scored more points on the team are typically viewed as a major reason as to why the team won, regardless of how small the victory may be; without those major points, the team wouldn't have even been close.  In this situation, the "major points" come from the larger voting populations.  The youth (18-29) was not the larger voting population.  The majority of votes came from other generations.

Again, this isn't to say we didn't play a part.  Yes, the guy who scored three points is going to be one of the many reasons why the team won by three.  However, he is not "the" reason.  And he's not going to get MVP at the end of the day for scoring three points.
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AUChizad

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #196 on: February 19, 2010, 12:07:16 AM »
I guess all old people aren't so bad after all...

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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #197 on: February 19, 2010, 01:05:20 AM »
I guess all old people aren't so bad after all...



This 1 badass makes up for a lot.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #198 on: February 19, 2010, 07:50:21 AM »


I'll make an analogy to a basketball game.

Let's say, in a fictional world, Auburn beats Kentucky 92 to 87.  After the game, someone asks Lebo how they pulled it off.  He says "well, the difference in the game was our free throws.  We got to the line 28 times and made 23 of them.  That's pretty damn good and was what put us over the edge in this game.  Without getting to the line, and without shooting 82%, we wouldn't have won that game".


You're a psychic.  Or a psycho. 

Auburn lost to Florida 78-70 last night.  Here was Lebo's summary of the game. 

Foul shots were the difference in the game," said Auburn head coach Jeff Lebo. "That's what it came down to really to be honest with you. Some of these were right at the end of the game, obviously, but we put them on the line that many times. We didn*t shoot the ball well. Frankie (Sullivan) struggled shooting the basketball, and that hurt us a little bit. Foul shooting was the difference in the game."

Uncanny.
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Re: Birmingham officially sucks more...
« Reply #199 on: February 19, 2010, 10:58:55 AM »
You're a psychic.  Or a psycho.  

Auburn lost to Florida 78-70 last night.  Here was Lebo's summary of the game.  

Foul shots were the difference in the game," said Auburn head coach Jeff Lebo. "That's what it came down to really to be honest with you. Some of these were right at the end of the game, obviously, but we put them on the line that many times. We didn*t shoot the ball well. Frankie (Sullivan) struggled shooting the basketball, and that hurt us a little bit. Foul shooting was the difference in the game."

Uncanny.

I'll be picking up those "Mega Millions" and "Power Ball" lotto tickets on the way home.

VandyVol...you kinda sidestepped my point a bit.  Again, it's not to imply that the youth vote was larger than other voting segments.  That obviously wasn't the case.  But there was something unusual and noteworthy about the youth vote.  Something that stood out from the other groups.  They voted for Obama at 68% rate.  

Last night Auburn shot 7-29 from 3 pt range.  That's probably the most direct reason we lost the game.  But Lebo referenced Florida's foul shooting.  The reason?  Because we put them on the line FORTY times and they made 32 of them (80%).  Even though that didn't account for the majority of Florida's points...it was unusual and noteworthy and what Lebo deemed as the "difference in the game".  You put someone on the line 40 times, you're likely going to lose, no matter what other baskets (2pt and 3pt FGs) account for more points.

If one side gets 68% of the youth vote, they are likely going to win, no matter the fact that other segments will account for more of the total votes.  It's about what one thing stood out.   What one thing was unusual.  What one thing, more than anything else, exceeded expectations to the degree that it would be labeled the "difference".

To me, putting a team on the line 40 times exceeded expectations more than any other stat from last night.

And to me, Obama getting 68% of the youth vote exceeds expectations more than any other stat from the election.

Oh yeah, and more importantly...LEBO SUCKS BALLS, FIRE HIS ASS PRONTO!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 11:02:51 AM by jadennis »
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

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