Birmingham officially sucks more...

[Iwannaplay]

The Facebook group was started by the owner of a company that was one of the main advertisers on Live 100.5, so apparently his business was seeing a big improvement since he started advertising there.  Every event that Live 100.5 has ever thrown has been packed out.  I just don't think Arbitron is a true scientific measuring stick.

[GH2001]

That was directed toward  because he confused Jeffco and Birmingham in the post above where I said the approximate pop. of Birmingham. I bet you suck as much tool as Peter Criss, you phuking douche bag.

Hey - no jankin on the man's costume now.

[Kaos]

That was directed toward  because he confused Jeffco and Birmingham in the post above where I said the approximate pop. of Birmingham. I bet you suck as much dick as Peter Criss, you fucking douche bag.

If you don't quote, you don't know. 

And yeah, I do.  Zero. 

[Kaos]

The Facebook group was started by the owner of a company that was one of the main advertisers on Live 100.5, so apparently his business was seeing a big improvement since he started advertising there.  Every event that Live 100.5 has ever thrown has been packed out.  I just don't think Arbitron is a true scientific measuring stick.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

It's the only one that really matters.  It's what determines how much stations can charge for their advertising.  It's what they use when they make talent decisions.  It's what they use to make programming decisions. 

I'm sure Marble Earl's Hemp and Hash probably did get a boost in sales, but again -- so what?  Minority doesn't rule. 

[wesfau2]

This is what you call a reach.  

What was the Arbitron book on 100.5?  It pretty much sucked.  

http://www.arbitron.com/home/content.stm

It ranked 17th in the latest ratings available.  It was the lowest rated music station on the dial, other than a mexican station and an urban oldies station.   "A lot of fucking people" DIDN'T listen to that station.  That's the point.  Just because the tiny (and insignificant, honestly) group you hang with does simply doesn't speak to the overall dynamic.  

Here's an insult for you.  A true niche station, WJLD, out drew it.  WJLD is a fucking AM station.  It plays the blues.  

Here's another insult that shows you just how "fucking few" people listened.  Of the ten stations ranked below WWMM in the Arbitron book, seven were AM stations.  Do cars even come with AM radios any more?  Are there any AM stations that have a reach beyond 15 miles from the tower other than the Texas, Louisiana and Illinios stations that crop up in the middle of the night?  The three FM stations were talk, religious and talk.  WERC was the lowest.  

WWMM drew roughly the same numbers as WAPI's talk radio station.  Talk radio is cheaper to produce, cheaper to air and easier to sell.  

Economics lesson.  

You win the radio industry knowledge portion of the round.  This station was obviously under-performing and a business decision was made to...uh...address the situation.

Nobody is debating that this is a business.  I think you guys (looking your way, K) are arguing to argue.  Yes, 15K people is a lot of people.  No, in the overall context of a radio station's market share, it is not a significant number.

And the music sucked.  That's clear from the ratings.  

..........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND....this is where the real argument starts.  <DISCLAIMER: ALL DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THE ARTISTIC MERITS OF ANY PAINTING/SCULPTURE/COMPOSITION/LITERATURE/THEATRICAL PIECE/ETC are subjective and NO ONE WILL "WIN">

In my own opinion (see the disclaimer as to subjectivity), any work of music and it's degree of "suckage" is a function wholly independent of its "ratings".

This, my friends, is the true genius of KISS.  No matter what you may think of their musical abilities, they found a way to get people to listen and have survived -- nay, thrived -- for longer than most of you have been alive.

And this, my friend, is why you catch shit for the KISS love.  I know you love it, so this was more a lesson for the slow folk in class.

[Kaos]

You win the radio industry knowledge portion of the round.  This station was obviously under-performing and a business decision was made to...uh...address the situation.

Nobody is debating that this is a business.  I think you guys (looking your way, K) are arguing to argue.  Yes, 15K people is a lot of people.  No, in the overall context of a radio station's market share, it is not a significant number.


..........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND....this is where the real argument starts.  <DISCLAIMER: ALL DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THE ARTISTIC MERITS OF ANY PAINTING/SCULPTURE/COMPOSITION/LITERATURE/THEATRICAL PIECE/ETC are subjective and NO ONE WILL "WIN">

In my own opinion (see the disclaimer as to subjectivity), any work of music and it's degree of "suckage" is a function wholly independent of its "ratings".

And this, my friend, is why you catch shit for the KISS love.  I know you love it, so this was more a lesson for the slow folk in class.

HAHAHAHAHA.... I win.

I said I was saying the music sucked just to kick the anthill. I already admitted that.  I don't even have any idea what bands they play on that station.  And I really don't care.  I find it amusing when people start to rail about serving "niche" markets.  It only works if the niche is big enough and supportive enough to sustain the medium.  In this case, it clearly wasn't.  Arbitron proved that.  (I forgot in my list in another thread that I had a radio show and sold radio ads for it for a while. AM station playing 70s in a small market... very small).

15,000 is a lot of people.  Sure it is.  Or it's not.  Depends on the circumstance.  15,000 for an Auburn basketball game would be a lot of people.  15,000 at an Auburn football game would be a disaster and get people fired.  15,000 people voting in a Jefferson County election and you could end up with a Langford.  Oh, wait...

It's all about context. 

Getting 15,000 people to sign a Facebook petition or whatever is insignificant in a market that probably contains  a million people. 

[wesfau2]

HAHAHAHAHA.... I win.

Except when you don't.

I said I was saying the music sucked just to kick the anthill. I already admitted that. 

Right.  We already left aside the subjective quality of music.  That was clear before you "admitted that."

I don't even have any idea what bands they play on that station.  And I really don't care.  I find it amusing when people start to rail about serving "niche" markets.  It only works if the niche is big enough and supportive enough to sustain the medium.  In this case, it clearly wasn't.  Arbitron proved that.  (I forgot in my list in another thread that I had a radio show and sold radio ads for it for a while. AM station playing 70s in a small market... very small).

Right....the business part.  We all concede it to you.  You've done everyting.  You are captain of many industries.  We get it...and...more importantly to this discussion...I conceded that to you as well.

15,000 is a lot of people.  Sure it is.  Or it's not.  Depends on the circumstance.  15,000 for an Auburn basketball game would be a lot of people.  15,000 at an Auburn football game would be a disaster and get people fired.  15,000 people voting in a Jefferson County election and you could end up with a Langford.  Oh, wait...

It's all about context. 

Getting 15,000 people to sign a Facebook petition or whatever is insignificant in a market that probably contains  a million people. 

Right.  You are 100% correct.  It's too bad that this point was made previously.  By me.

So.  What's left?  What do we do for the next 7 months?

[Kaos]

I'm going to make movies. 

My last effort was ranked by Rotten Tomatoes as the worst movie of the previous decade.   I got nowhere to go but up! 



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/guides/worst_of_the_worst/10/

Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever (2002)

Critics Consensus: A startlingly inept film, Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever offers overblown, wall-to-wall action without a hint of wit, coherence, style, or originality.
Synopsis: In the mystifying opening sequence of BALLISTIC: ECKS VS. SEVER, a double kidnapping takes place on a rainy night in Vancouver with a minimal amount of wasted time and a maximum amount of violence. A little boy is picked... [More]
Starring: Lucy Liu, Antonio Banderas, Gregg Henry
Directed By: Kaos

[CCTAU]

I don't think anyone REALLY disputes the economic reasons for changing. But I do find it laughable that someone might suggest keeping it running because there are a few, very few folks who like it and since it was the only one of its kind, they somehow have a duty to keep it running. This is America, if you want to piss your money away trying to keep a business going that fills a void but loses money, you have that right. But to insinuate that it is wrong not to do that, is well...stupid.

You guys will have to now get your music from some underground source now.

[Saniflush]

It was accepted as a reference for research papers that I did in communications and philosophy courses.

At what institution?  DeVry? Wikipedia is a great starting point but that's it.
This is the currently accepted format....
1
 Jim Zwick, Anti-Imperialism in the United States, 1898-1935, http://www.rochester.ican.net/~fjzwick/ail98-35.html (May 1997).

A direct and specific link to individual data.  Not a general one.  General knowledge is not usually cited.

I think we're already there.  Some uber-nerd developed Wolfram|Alpha, which is a search engine that uses legitimate sources and algorithms to give you an answer to any question you have.  Pretty useful tool.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/

I have used Wolfman some but it is in it's infancy.  There will have to be major overhauling take place before it's a mainline tool.  

A research paper without footnotes is like a man without balls.  Useless. Totally fucking useless.

I am willing to defer to the Grammar Wench on this one though. 
What say ye?

[GH2001]

I don't think anyone REALLY disputes the economic reasons for changing. But I do find it laughable that someone might suggest keeping it running because there are a few, very few folks who like it and since it was the only one of its kind, they somehow have a duty to keep it running. This is America, if you want to piss your money away trying to keep a business going that fills a void but loses money, you have that right. But to insinuate that it is wrong not to do that, is well...stupid.

You guys will have to now get your music from some underground source now.

THIS


Wes, remember the business decision logic you used when I had a contract terminated last week? "Its just good business" ?  Thats all that happened here. The pubic spoke and they made a business decision. And yes - I know you conceded that.    In the overall grand scheme of life, aren't most things subjective? Thats why public opinion decides most everything (ratings, polls, elections, sales, etc). I love capitalism   

[Kaos]

THIS


Wes, remember the business decision logic you used when I had a contract terminated last week? "Its just good business" ?  Thats all that happened here. The pubic spoke and they made a business decision. And yes - I know you conceded that.    In the overall grand scheme of life, aren't most things subjective? Thats why public opinion decides most everything (ratings, polls, elections, sales, etc). I love capitalism   

Obama heard that... You better watch your back.

[wesfau2]

And yes - I know you conceded that.    

Then why fucking bring it up?

I never got involved in the radio station argument.  I could give half a hairy shit what format any radio station is.  I don't listen to the radio (thanks, Clear Channel).

The only contribution I made to the thread was in response to Kaos's ridiculous assertions that obscure music sucks and mainstream music is "good".

[GH2001]

Then why phuking bring it up?

I never got involved in the radio station argument.  I could give half a hairy poop what format any radio station is.  I don't listen to the radio (thanks, Clear Channel).

The only contribution I made to the thread was in response to Kaos's ridiculous assertions that obscure music sucks and mainstream music is "good".

Understood....and agree. Most mainstream music produced TODAY sucks balls from a "musical" perspective. I just don't consider synthesized computer crap with rhyming words "good music"...I.e. - Brittany Spears, XYZ Boy Band, The Latest Cool Rapper, Most of the idiots on American Idol..etc etc... Only ELO can get away with synthesizing.   

  Jeff Lynne 

I like a lot of what was mainstream back in the day. That was the good chit.

[Vandy Vol]

At what institution?  DeVry? Wikipedia is a great starting point but that's it.

Vanderbilt, actually.

This is the currently accepted format....
1
 Jim Zwick, Anti-Imperialism in the United States, 1898-1935, http://www.rochester.ican.net/~fjzwick/ail98-35.html (May 1997).

A direct and specific link to individual data.  Not a general one.  General knowledge is not usually cited.

This link doesn't work...?  So I can't determine whether it's general knowledge on the topic or something specific.  Regardless, there are times in a paper (especially during the introduction) when general knowledge must be cited to when you are setting up the overall topic.  It's no different than when people would cite to an encyclopedia for general information.

Let's not forget that Wikipedia has specific information as well, especially when it comes to people and historical events.  The date of death of a movie star?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.  Stats for athletes?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.  Movies that Ron Jeremy has been in?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.

Whether the information is specific or general, however, has no affect on its reliability in academia or elsewhere.

A research paper without footnotes is like a man without balls.  Useless. Totally fucking useless.

Footnotes are merely citations to references, often with explanatory or quoted text.  A reference, whether digital or tangible, is still a reference.  I understand that you have spent most of your life viewing many digital references, including Wikipedia, as being unacceptable, but the times are a changin'.

[jadennis]

Then why phuking bring it up?

I never got involved in the radio station argument.  I could give half a hairy poop what format any radio station is.  I don't listen to the radio (thanks, Clear Channel).

The only contribution I made to the thread was in response to Kaos's ridiculous assertions that obscure music sucks and mainstream music is "good".

I love the off-season threads, the ones where we all go that extra mile to argue/discuss things that would have been dropped or ignored in between the Georgia and Alabama games. 

That being the case, I have one last interjection....I don't think Kaos meant obscure sucks and mainstream is "good" the way it was taken.  It was in context to the radio station going under.  To explain to ballwrecker that it was a business decision...he meant "no one" (the general public) was listening because obscure music sucks (to the general public), which is why mainstream is good (to the general public).

I think Kaos would agree with you, as do I, that the "general public" doesn't know a damn thing (see elections of Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc).  However, they are the ones that decides what stays and what goes (whether radio stations or presidents).

I know you know all that, I'm just saying I think you took Kaos' insult to "off the beaten path" music the wrong way.

By the way, your "You are captain of many industries" line was genius.

[wreckingball]

Actually, when I went on my original rant, I was just expressing my disdain for the decision made by citadel broadcasting because it meant taking away one of the few institutions that I found enjoyable in Birmingham, as well as my hatred of old people. I never said that the station was perfect, and I agree that some poor managerial decisions were made in regards to ad revenue. I don't believe it is a fair assumption to use the ratings argument because there are many factors involved that could attribute to this, like the fact that it is a relatively new radio station in terms of longevity or that one of the better djs on the station, Amber, was moved by citadel from 100.5 to some classic rock station. The misused data is many of these arguments makes me wonder if some of you actually attended any form of higher education at all. The facebook group size was meant to display that a number of Birmingham area citizens were fans of this radio station, its not meant to display all of the people that listen to the station. By comparing the group size to the population of birmingham, jefferson county, the state of alabama, or whatever population that you find to show the exaggerated stat that will support your argument isn't really a true gauge of anything at all.

We all know that this was a business decision, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good decision just because you don't like the type of music played on the station. The station had an ever growing loyal fan base and the main problem was with the mismanagement from citadel broadcasting. Regardless of the type of music you listen to, you can see that replacing this station, with what I am guessing will be the liberal counterpoint to the other talk radio stations we already have, cannot be the best decision. If anything, just alter the programming and bring in a better ad manager for you station.

If you really think that this station didn't have any listeners then you should have come to one of their many events or seen how many sold out concerts from this station bringing attention to relatively unknown artist.

And for all of you that say that nobody listens to indie music, I'm pretty sure that Vampire Weekend's album Contra was #1 on the billboard top 200 when it was released. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people have to listen to your album to reach #1.

[Saniflush]

Vanderbilt, actually.

I am an old fogey I will admit but the professor who let that slide away should be shot.

This link doesn't work...?  So I can't determine whether it's general knowledge on the topic or something specific.

The link does not work because it is there to show format not content.

 Regardless, there are times in a paper (especially during the introduction) when general knowledge must be cited to when you are setting up the overall topic.  It's no different than when people would cite to an encyclopedia for general information.

Let's not forget that Wikipedia has specific information as well, especially when it comes to people and historical events.  The date of death of a movie star?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.  Stats for athletes?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.  Movies that Ron Jeremy has been in?  Specific information that Wikipedia has.

Whether the information is specific or general, however, has no affect on its reliability in academia or elsewhere.

Footnotes are merely citations to references, often with explanatory or quoted text.  A reference, whether digital or tangible, is still a reference.  I understand that you have spent most of your life viewing many digital references, including Wikipedia, as being unacceptable, but the times are a changin'.

I agree that they are changing , hell maybe have already changed.  And get the fuck off my lawn.

[Vandy Vol]

[jadennis]

Actually, when I went on my original rant, I was just expressing my disdain for the decision made by citadel broadcasting because it meant taking away one of the few institutions that I found enjoyable in Birmingham, as well as my hatred of old people. I never said that the station was perfect, and I agree that some poor managerial decisions were made in regards to ad revenue. I don't believe it is a fair assumption to use the ratings argument because there are many factors involved that could attribute to this, like the fact that it is a relatively new radio station in terms of longevity or that one of the better djs on the station, Amber, was moved by citadel from 100.5 to some classic rock station. The misused data is many of these arguments makes me wonder if some of you actually attended any form of higher education at all. The facebook group size was meant to display that a number of Birmingham area citizens were fans of this radio station, its not meant to display all of the people that listen to the station. By comparing the group size to the population of birmingham, jefferson county, the state of alabama, or whatever population that you find to show the exaggerated stat that will support your argument isn't really a true gauge of anything at all.

We all know that this was a business decision, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good decision just because you don't like the type of music played on the station. The station had an ever growing loyal fan base and the main problem was with the mismanagement from citadel broadcasting. Regardless of the type of music you listen to, you can see that replacing this station, with what I am guessing will be the liberal counterpoint to the other talk radio stations we already have, cannot be the best decision. If anything, just alter the programming and bring in a better ad manager for you station.

If you really think that this station didn't have any listeners then you should have come to one of their many events or seen how many sold out concerts from this station bringing attention to relatively unknown artist.

And for all of you that say that nobody listens to indie music, I'm pretty sure that Vampire Weekend's album Contra was #1 on the billboard top 200 when it was released. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people have to listen to your album to reach #1.

Is it possible that the people that are actually in the "radio station" business and actually own radio stations may know more than you about how to run a profitable station? 

This has nothing to do with what kind of music was on there and how good it was or how loyal of a following it had.  How many people show up at a gathering couldn't be more irrelevant.  The people that show up could be 85% of all the people that listen, who knows. 

People that listen to indie music tend to be very passionate about it, and therefore more likely to show up at an event, or create a facebook group, or post about it on an Auburn football message board.  Unfortunately, the passion doesn't affect the bottom line.  You seem to grasp that it was a business decision, but your emotion is getting involved and telling you that it must have been a poor decision (because of how you feel about the station).

There used to be a hot dog place near where I work here in San Antonio.  It was one of three places in the city that sold Vienna Beef hot dogs out of Chicago.  They're the best in the world, one of my all-time favorite things to eat.  They closed.  Sure, there were a hand full of dedicated and passionate customers that ate there all the time, told all their friends, and always showed up when there were specials.  But the fact was, there just weren't enough of us to support that guy, and he had to close his doors.  Had he been in Atlanta or Dallas or somewhere else, there likely would have been enough support.  But not here in San Antonio...no matter how good the hot dogs were or how many times I ate there, it didn't make them more profitable or desirable to the masses.  A certain amount of "the masses" is what that guy needed, because there weren't enough "indie" Vienna Beef hot dog lovers like me out there.

So he closed his doors.

You station may have had great hot dogs and lots of dedicated regulars.  But there just weren't enough of you to make it profitable.

So they closed their doors.

By the way.....what do you consider old?