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Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad

Tiger Wench

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Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« on: February 04, 2010, 08:37:53 PM »
Quote
Despite resistance from women's groups, the ad is expected to air during the Super Bowl. It is believed that the commercial will focus on Pam Tebow's 1987 pregnancy, during which time she fell ill in the Philippines. According to reports, doctors recommended that she abort the pregnancy, but she chose to go through with the birth of her son Tim.

The feminazis are calling this an anti-choice ad, because Tim's mom said she had thought about ending her pregnancy but didn't.  

Excuse me, but isn't that a CHOICE?  

Gloria Allred, predictably, is throwing a total hissy fit, as are many other feminist freaks.  

Surprisingly fair article from HuffPo

Quote
Because abortion under any circumstance has been illegal in the Philippines since 1930 and is punishable by a six-year prison term, Allred says she finds it hard to believe that doctors would have recommended the procedure.

The attorney, who has represented a roster of famous clients, claims she will lodge a complaint with the FCC and FTC "if this ad airs and fails to disclose that abortions were illegal at the time Ms. Tebow made her choice," according to RadarOnline.
Same article:  
Quote
However, a 2005 New York Times article that includes an estimate that 70% of unwanted pregnancies in the Philippines end with an abortion, a point which would considerably undermine Allred's contention.

Let me get this straight - it's only a choice that should be protected if you CHOOSE an ABORTION...

Right.

Regardless of my personal opinions, this is hypocritical BULLSHIT at its finest.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 08:40:12 PM by Tiger Wench »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 10:12:28 PM »
I think the advertisement could be anti-choice, depending upon what all it says.  I haven't seen it and don't even know if it's available on the internet yet.  If it merely states that Mrs. Tebow considered abortion and then didn't, well...then it's obviously not anti-choice.  However, for as much flack as it has been getting, I assume it has some sort of pro-life message in it.  Such as, "It's wrong to abort a baby...and my mom knew that."

The rest of this post is mostly unrelated, but I was (somewhat) directed to post my stance on abortion here.  And, of course, any time I get to spout my ideas to the masses, I gladly take the chance to be verbose.

Human life is protected within the United States.  The only points at which a human life can be taken with legal justification are self defense scenarios and capital punishment.  Some will argue that our rules for abortion clearly allow us to take human life, but those people have obviously not read Roe v. Wade; the Supreme Court refused to address the questions of what is life and when it begins.

Legally speaking, if you want to address the topic of abortion, you must address the topic of life.  Otherwise, you are ignoring the fact that our laws protect life, and you would thus be creating contradictory laws by not recognizing the legal protection of life.

It could be argued that the question of when life is present is a subjective one, and that no objective resolution can be reached.  I find this to be patently false.  Even if it were true, our society has already come to a subjective consensus.  That consensus can be found within the Uniform Determination of Death Act (UDDA).

Traditionally, life was considered to be absent from a human when their vital signs (meaning respiratory and circulatory functions) were absent.  This was changed with the UDDA.  Now, a human is still absent of life when the vital signs are absent, but this is due to the fact that an absence of vital signs will certainly lead to an absence of brain activity; afterall, your brain can't operate without oxygen.  This is why the UDDA also added the cessation of brain activity as the determining factor of the absence of life.  Even when a human's vital signs are maintained by life support, they are legally and medically dead if there is no brain activity.  Note the emphasis on no; a person in a coma has brain activity, and thus does not fall under the UDDA's parameters.

This is something that, to my knowledge, most people agree with.  If your brain isn't functioning, then you're not alive.  Thus, whether it can be objectively proven or subjectively agreed upon, life is brain activity.  And brain activity does not occur until the second trimester.

Some people will argue that I'm not pro-choice because I still limit the choice of abortion to only certain trimesters.  However, we must recognize that our laws protect life, and if we've decided that life is present upon brain activity, then a human in the womb with brain activity can't be killed by choice.  If the scientific conclusion or the subjective consensus on life change, then we should reconsider when abortions should be available.  Otherwise, we have a consensus on when life is present and when it is absent, so there should be a consensus on when elective abortions can and can't be performed.

If you're an extreme pro-choice proponent who thinks that an elective abortion should be able to be performed at any time during the pregnancy, then think about this:  What is the difference between an infant five minutes from the womb and a fetus five minutes from birth?  What about a day?  Two days?  A week?  Where do you draw the line?

Ultimately, a newborn is just a nine month old fetus that is now out of the womb.  Nothing developmental occurred during birth, and thus the living newborn is the same as the nine month old fetus that is about to be born.  Thus, we have to draw a line based upon what we consider human life, and according to the UDDA, we've decided that the line is brain activity.
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Saniflush

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 07:08:37 AM »
I always find it very humorous that the same people who scream equal rights are the first ones to complain when someone else is exercising theirs.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Tiger Wench

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 10:37:49 AM »
Exactly.  Abortion activists claim to want to protect the right of every woman to have access to safe, legal abortion.  Well, Mrs. Tebow was apparently given the opportunity to have a safe, legal abortion, but she simply chose not to.  Regardless of which side you are on, that should technically be a win.  But the abortion rights groups seem to really only want you to have a choice if that choice is going to be abortion.  Apparently, being able to consider your options and then choosing to do what is right for you is not real choice if you choose life.

 :bs:
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Saniflush

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 11:10:56 AM »
Exactly.  Abortion activists claim to want to protect the right of every woman to have access to safe, legal abortion.  Well, Mrs. Tebow was apparently given the opportunity to have a safe, legal abortion, but she simply chose not to.  Regardless of which side you are on, that should technically be a win.  But the abortion rights groups seem to really only want you to have a choice if that choice is going to be abortion.  Apparently, being able to consider your options and then choosing to do what is right for you is not real choice if you choose life.

 :bs:

I have some issue with Sarah Palin but these women's rights nutcases should have been creaming their panties over the fact that she was in the position she was in.  The politics should be an afterthought.
It bothers me more that most people do not see through their little charade.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 11:36:53 AM »
Good for Focus. I believe that all women should know that an unplanned pregnancy can be a gift and not a curse. As long as the ad does not condemn those who make the opposite decision, how can the ad be bad?
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 01:01:16 PM »
Good for Focus. I believe that all women should know that an unplanned pregnancy can be a gift and not a curse. As long as the ad does not condemn those who make the opposite decision, how can the ad be bad?
I could see how the ad would be bad if it was meant to make people who chose to have an abortion feel bad.  Besides that, I don't see any problem with this.  I'm pro-choice, key word choice.

Some people just want something to bitch about.
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 01:52:09 PM »
The old liberal pro choice argument: A woman has the right to choose.

My response: When has a woman EVER had the right to CHOOSE to end someone else's life?

VandyVol - you are spot on in your analysis of what constitutes a human. The only difference in a fetus and a born baby is that one is inside and one is outside. Nothing developmental happens during birth. The whole "its not really a human until its born" is just a convenient excuse to keep having abortions and assuring yourself youve done nothing wrong. Shyyyeaaah , ok, rigghhhhttt.

New twist to an old adage: A mistake on the adult's part (unwanted pregnancy) does not constitute an emergency (death/abortion) on the baby's part.

You make the mistake, you do the time. Don't take it out on the baby because YOU screwed up.
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 04:29:35 PM »
Yeah for babies....boo for death.

Spot on Vandy Vol....spot on!
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jadennis

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 12:30:59 PM »
Yeah, VandyVol, great reasoning and good post. 

I was reminded of how screwed up our whole culture has become a couple months ago when this guy caught this huge shark.  Turns out the shark was pregnant.  Animal rights people went nuts because the "baby sharks" were killed.   :blink: 

So?  Shark fetus > human fetus?   :sad:

Another thing I find interesting is that woman's rights groups typically portray themselves as trying to fight for what's best for a woman, yet they are typically the biggest obstacle to proposed laws that require women to be informed of certain things when it comes to abortion. 

They say they want to protect women, yet they want to keep them in the dark about such a big decision?  Shouldn't their goal be to make sure women are over-informed about things regarding abortion?  Shouldn't they want a woman to get a sonogram prior to the decision?  (the answer there is no, because nearly 90% of abortion-minded women change their mind after seeing a sonogram of their own baby).

Anyway, I just get so irritated with how backwards things have gotten. Protect and fight for shark babies, keep women in the dark about the CHOICE of aborting.   So are they fighting for women or are they simply fighting against "radical right-wingers" and the people that feel abortion is simply a bad idea?  When they fight against the idea of requiring women to be more informed, I think we see the true agenda.

Oh, and let's not forget what a huge, huge motivation behind the agenda is....the billion dollar industry that abortion has become. 
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jadennis

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2010, 12:39:43 PM »
VandyVol, another question. 

Didn't the Roe v. Wade decision also acknowledge that as we learned more about "life" and as science progressed, the decision would be reconsidered (or at least could be changed according to new information)?

Also, I've always wondered how a state can have a law that allows for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with homicide of both the mother and the unborn baby.  You can get two life sentences can't you?  Didn't Scott Peterson get that because Lacy Peterson was pregnant?  Yet, the day before the murder, couldn't Lacy have gone and killed the same fetus/baby by "choice"?

How have those two things never been linked or challenged?
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:43:10 PM »
VandyVol, another question. 

Didn't the Roe v. Wade decision also acknowledge that as we learned more about "life" and as science progressed, the decision would be reconsidered (or at least could be changed according to new information)?

Also, I've always wondered how a state can have a law that allows for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with homicide of both the mother and the unborn baby.  You can get two life sentences can't you?  Didn't Scott Peterson get that because Lacy Peterson was pregnant?  Yet, the day before the murder, couldn't Lacy have gone and killed the same fetus/baby by "choice"?

How have those two things never been linked or challenged?
Norma McCorvey (Roe) is now also a huge proponent of the Right to Life.
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jadennis

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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 01:38:31 PM »
Norma McCorvey (Roe) is now also a huge proponent of the Right to Life.

She's been a powerful voice....of course the feminists have long since considered her brainwashed.

I'm actually on the board of directors for a pregnancy center here in San Antonio (and my wife used to be on staff at the one in Auburn).  We take a similar approach to what the Tebow commercial was like (not so much "anti" anything, but selling the "choice" of life more than anything).  You won't find us in picket lines and yelling about hell or useless "tactics" like that. 

To us, it's a ministry to the woman as much as it is about the baby.  We care about the woman first and foremost.  We offer parenting classes, a clothes-closet (where you can get diapers, strollers, clothes, car seats, etc) and things like that.  We have a sonogram machine, provide adoption services, etc, and simply try to give another perspective and option that you won't find at Planned Parenthood.  In the end, yeah, we are pro-life more than pro-choice, as we tend to think that at conception, God begins the miracle of life.  He is the author and creator of it, and because of that, we just don't think taking it is a "choice" that's up to us.  But like I said, that's not something we're there to convince a client of.  It's not really the time or the place to discuss that in that manner.  They come there and we focus on loving them, showing grace, educating them, and showing them options and stories they won't see at PP.

Anyway, a member of our board is the lead council for the Justice Foundation.  They are the ones that have been fighting for years to have R v W at least revisited and reconsidered.  The Justice Foundation has represented McCorvey for a long time and he has told us quite a few stories about her and her message.  It's a pretty powerful story.
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 01:43:18 PM »
VandyVol, another question. 

Didn't the Roe v. Wade decision also acknowledge that as we learned more about "life" and as science progressed, the decision would be reconsidered (or at least could be changed according to new information)?

Also, I've always wondered how a state can have a law that allows for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with homicide of both the mother and the unborn baby.  You can get two life sentences can't you?  Didn't Scott Peterson get that because Lacy Peterson was pregnant?  Yet, the day before the murder, couldn't Lacy have gone and killed the same fetus/baby by "choice"?

How have those two things never been linked or challenged?

As Rep Ron Paul (R- TX), who is also an OB GYN, said during a GOP debate a couple of years ago:

(In states like Kansas where late term abortion is legal) and I am paraphrasing here... If I deliver a baby and accidentally do something wrong and hurt/kill the baby during delivery, I get charged with manslaughter/homicide/etc. If I intently kill the baby 1 week earlier via abortion, it is considered a "choice". 

WTF?
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 02:14:00 PM »
As Rep Ron Paul (R- TX), who is also an OB GYN, said during a GOP debate a couple of years ago:

(In states like Kansas where late term abortion is legal) and I am paraphrasing here... If I deliver a baby and accidentally do something wrong and hurt/kill the baby during delivery, I get charged with manslaughter/homicide/etc. If I intently kill the baby 1 week earlier via abortion, it is considered a "choice". 

WTF?
Iknew Paul was a doctor but an OB-Gyn?   :blink:

COULD.  NOT.  IMAGINE.  HIM.  DOING.  THAT.   :blink: :blink:
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 02:20:59 PM »
VandyVol, another question. 

Didn't the Roe v. Wade decision also acknowledge that as we learned more about "life" and as science progressed, the decision would be reconsidered (or at least could be changed according to new information)?

Also, I've always wondered how a state can have a law that allows for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with homicide of both the mother and the unborn baby.  You can get two life sentences can't you?  Didn't Scott Peterson get that because Lacy Peterson was pregnant?  Yet, the day before the murder, couldn't Lacy have gone and killed the same fetus/baby by "choice"?

How have those two things never been linked or challenged?
I can answer this really quickly...

1.  Every Supreme Court decision assumes what you stated about Roe v. Wade above.  If there is logic and legal argument regarding the constitution that comes into play, then a decision my be overturned or distinguished.

2. Choice versus Murder.  Right of privacy versus the taking of ones life.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  Before said abortion happens, and a pregnant woman is killed, the law (in these particular states) assume she planed on keeping the baby.  I would say that is logical.
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2010, 02:41:48 PM »
I can answer this really quickly...

1.  Every Supreme Court decision assumes what you stated about Roe v. Wade above.  If there is logic and legal argument regarding the constitution that comes into play, then a decision my be overturned or distinguished.

2. Choice versus Murder.  Right of privacy versus the taking of ones life.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  Before said abortion happens, and a pregnant woman is killed, the law (in these particular states) assume she planed on keeping the baby.  I would say that is logical.

On #2 - is not murder a "choice" on someone's part?
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2010, 03:34:26 PM »
I can answer this really quickly...

2. Choice versus Murder.  Right of privacy versus the taking of ones life.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  Before said abortion happens, and a pregnant woman is killed, the law (in these particular states) assume she planed on keeping the baby.  I would say that is logical.

I assumed the logic of "choice" being involved being the obvious difference.  But here is the thing.  Whether the woman was going to choose to keep her baby or not, that shouldn't determine the definition of "murder" of that baby (or fetus as they like to say).  In other words, if some stranger were to end the life of that child (fetus), and we call it murder, then why do we change the term or definition to "abortion" just because she chose to end the life of that child (fetus).  

It seems very illogical to me to change the term when the outcome is the same (and being that the outcome was intentional by both parties, not two different things like involuntary vehicular manslaughter and premeditated 1st degree murder).  To me, it seems that the only difference is that the law prohibits him from "ending the life" of the child, but allows for the mother to "end the life" of the child.  Calling it by another name to make it acceptable, to me, is completely illogical.

And if the defense for her ending the fetus' life is that it's part of her body, and not a "person" with human rights, then how can the stranger be charged for the "murder" of a "part of her body"?  It's either one thing or the other.  It's either "part of her body" and not able to be "murdered" by anyone, or it's a "life" that is to be protected from strangers and mothers equally.  

If she isn't "murdering" the fetus, then it only makes sense that the stranger should be charged with "unauthorized abortion of a fetus" or something like that.   Sounds pretty stupid right?  Which is kind of my point.  If the life is protected under the law from strangers, why not from the mother?  A 2 hour old baby is protected from strangers and mothers....why not protect the unborn equally as well?  

I don't think the life of that baby/fetus should be an apple in one case and an orange in another.   It can't change what it is.  It's essence is the same, regardless.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:36:23 PM by jadennis »
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2010, 03:39:35 PM »
I assumed the logic of "choice" being involved being the obvious difference.  But here is the thing.  Whether the woman was going to choose to keep her baby or not, that shouldn't determine the definition of "murder" of that baby (or fetus as they like to say).  In other words, if some stranger were to end the life of that child (fetus), and we call it murder, then why do we change the term or definition to "abortion" just because she chose to end the life of that child (fetus).  

It seems very illogical to me to change the term when the outcome is the same (and being that the outcome was intentional by both parties, not two different things like involuntary vehicular manslaughter and premeditated 1st degree murder).  To me, it seems that the only difference is that the law prohibits him from "ending the life" of the child, but allows for the mother to "end the life" of the child.  Calling it by another name to make it acceptable, to me, is completely illogical.

And if the defense for her ending the fetus' life is that it's part of her body, and not a "person" with human rights, then how can the stranger be charged for the "murder" of a "part of her body"?  It's either one thing or the other.  It's either "part of her body" and not able to be "murdered" by anyone, or it's a "life" that is to be protected from strangers and mothers equally.  

If she isn't "murdering" the fetus, then it only makes sense that the stranger should be charged with "unauthorized abortion of a fetus" or something like that.   Sounds pretty stupid right?  Which is kind of my point.  If the life is protected under the law from strangers, why not from the mother?  A 2 hour old baby is protected from strangers and mothers....why not protect the unborn equally as well?  

I don't think the life of that baby/fetus should be an apple in one case and an orange in another.   It can't change what it is.  It's essence is the same, regardless.
:clap:  Defend that Lawyer man
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Re: Focus On Family to air Tebow Super Bowl Ad
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2010, 03:48:19 PM »
On #2 - is not murder a "choice" on someone's part?

According to legal precedent, abortion is a right of privacy issue. A fetus is not a living being until it reaches viability. I.e. See VolVandy's post above.  Therefore, it is the mother's choice.

I don't think anyone who is murdered chose to be so.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:52:35 PM by AWK »
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."