Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "

[AUChizad]

That's an entirely different discussion.  You can pull it all the way back to integration of the schools.  

Some would argue that the decline of American education began at that point.  

This is who we're dealing with.

Oh yeah, and we're the ignorant ones.

[Kaos]

This is who we're dealing with.

Oh yeah, and we're the ignorant ones.

Sancho can't read.  

I didn't say what I believed, only what some have postulated.  

For argument's sake, I can provide reams of statistical evidence, white papers and surveys that can show a cause and effect relationship between integration and educational decline.  

I can also show the same type of theoretical connections between the elimination of school prayer and a precipitous drop in test scores.  

I can do the same for the mainstreaming of developmentally disabled children.  

I can find statistical evidence to make a correlation between divorce rates and educational decline.  

Doesn't mean any of those things are entirely true. I would never say that integration was the reason schools declined -- but I do think it would be fair to examine the way in which integration was manifested and determine if that did create a situation that led to relaxed standards or inferior opportunities for all involved.

The point is that you can argue whatever you want.  You will find "surveys" (what a joke) that support your position, others can provide similar evidence to support theirs.  This whole gayness in the military discussion is not a (pardon the pun) black and white issue.  You can't claim "rightness" just because you reject the morality or values that lead others to hold their position.  Just because you are willing to accept certain things does not mean that those who are not are less enlightened or intellectually inferior.  On the contrary, some of the positions I've seen you take call your cognitive abilities into question (as is the case for all of us).

What that is, Chizad, is bullshit of the highest order.  One day you'll grow up and realize that.  

You claim you're interested in "healthy debate."  Nothing could be further from the truth.  You're interested in grandstanding.  I personally don't care about healthy debate.  My objective is to push the bounds of the discussion and see how big an ass you're willing to make of yourself.  My opinions are already formed on most issues.  I don't do it lightly and the last thing that's going to alter my thinking is some rant from a message board doink.

[War Eagle!!!]

That's an entirely different discussion.  You can pull it all the way back to integration of the schools.  

Some would argue that the decline of American education began at that point.  

Jesus Christ dude. That's one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read on this board...

[Kaos]

Jesus Christ dude. That's one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read on this board...

Do you disagree that there are those who would argue such? 

Because I guarantee you those people exist. 

[AUChizad]

Sancho can't read.  

I didn't say what I believed, only what some have postulated.  

For argument's sake, I can provide reams of statistical evidence, white papers and surveys that can show a cause and effect relationship between integration and educational decline.  

I can also show the same type of theoretical connections between the elimination of school prayer and a precipitous drop in test scores.  

I can do the same for the mainstreaming of developmentally disabled children.  

I can find statistical evidence to make a correlation between divorce rates and educational decline.  

Doesn't mean any of those things are entirely true. I would never say that integration was the reason schools declined -- but I do think it would be fair to examine the way in which integration was manifested and determine if that did create a situation that led to relaxed standards or inferior opportunities for all involved.

The point is that you can argue whatever you want.  You will find "surveys" (what a joke) that support your position, others can provide similar evidence to support theirs.  This whole gayness in the military discussion is not a (pardon the pun) black and white issue.  You can't claim "rightness" just because you reject the morality or values that lead others to hold their position.  Just because you are willing to accept certain things does not mean that those who are not are less enlightened or intellectually inferior.  On the contrary, some of the positions I've seen you take call your cognitive abilities into question (as is the case for all of us).

What that is, Chizad, is bullshit of the highest order.  One day you'll grow up and realize that.  

You claim you're interested in "healthy debate."  Nothing could be further from the truth.  You're interested in grandstanding.  I personally don't care about healthy debate.  My objective is to push the bounds of the discussion and see how big an ass you're willing to make of yourself.  My opinions are already formed on most issues.  I don't do it lightly and the last thing that's going to alter my thinking is some rant from a message board doink.

You sure do have a hard-on for me that won't go down.

[War Eagle!!!]

Do you disagree that there are those who would argue such? 

Because I guarantee you those people exist. 

I am sure they do exist. Just like radical muslim, black and any other form of "hate groups" that are out there.

What does this prove? You are quoting ignorant white racist fucks as a basis for an argument? Why bring it up? What does that have to do with y'alls slap fight? You bringing this shit up is ignorant at best...

[Tiger Wench]

You claim you're interested in "healthy debate."  Nothing could be further from the truth.  You're interested in grandstanding.  I personally don't care about healthy debate.  My objective is to push the bounds of the discussion and see how big an ass you're willing to make of yourself.  My opinions are already formed on most issues.  I don't do it lightly and the last thing that's going to alter my thinking is some rant from a message board doink.

There's a shocker.  Yet we are all supposed to alter our own opinions because of a well written rant from a message board doink?

But it begs the question - If you don't care about healthy debate, then why not bow out and let the rest of us actually, you know, debate?  Instead of discussing the issue, it becomes "ALL ABOUT KEVIN", and your insatiable need to be the center of attention. The personal insults don't seem to come flying until you arrive on the scene in your golden chariot, proclaiming to all that The Word of Kevin is forthcoming - ignorance be banished!!   If Kevin is not involved in the conversation, well then, aren't we all just a little poorer for the experience?  If Kevin has not made sure his voice, and only his voice, is the one leading us poor sinners out of the wilderness, well then, aren't we all just going to hell?? We wind up ignoring the topic and discussing KEVIN's opinion - because if it is not about Kevin's opinion, well, it just ain't worth discussing.  

Your ego may have you convinced that we little people are in desperate need of your guidance and direction, but in reality, few of us are as stupid as you like to think we are.  We really don't need your "Ultimate Opinion" to either validate our positions, or "challenge us" to think.  No one asked you to be the "boundary pusher" around here, especially when all you do is come across as an egotistical, pompous, bloviated, dismissive, snooty self-righteous asshole who is truly incapable of seeing the other side of any argument, regardless of the topic.  But then it doesn't matter, does it?  Your opinion is the only correct one anyway.  No need for the other side.  We just make asses of ourselves if we try to respond.  Better to shut up.  Better not to start any kind of discussion thread because Kevin will just take it over with his Gospel According to Kevin anyway.  We should just post things in the form of a question and then wait for Kevin to enlighten us with his wisdom.

Even if it is an "act", as you claim from time to time, it is just ridiculous - the ultimate in personal ego trip, since it is all about you and not about consideration for the others on this board.  It kills real discussion and annoys the living shit out of a lot of people as thread after thread is hijacked.  That probably just thrills you right down to your twinkle toes, because for some reason, you desperately need to bring out the worst in people.  You need to bring people down to build yourself up. You need to keep people looking at you so they won't notice how you might compare to others around you.  I will say it again - you and Chopper/Prowler are the SAME GUY - only you just have a better vocabulary.  And unfortunately, your gift for writing gives you a false sense of superiority over those who may not write as well as you.  It is not how you say it, it is what you say.   But if no one reads what you write, it doesn't matter how "awesome" you think it is.  

I am a fool for even responding to you, since I know you get some little orgasmic ego boost from any kind of response, and I despise giving you that validation.  Enjoy your little frisson of glee.  But just remember that it came with a price.

[AUChizad]

There's a shocker.  Yet we are all supposed to alter our own opinions because of a well written rant from a message board doink?

But it begs the question - If you don't care about healthy debate, then why not bow out and let the rest of us actually, you know, debate?  Instead of discussing the issue, it becomes "ALL ABOUT KEVIN", and your insatiable need to be the center of attention. The personal insults don't seem to come flying until you arrive on the scene in your golden chariot, proclaiming to all that The Word of Kevin is forthcoming - ignorance be banished!!   If Kevin is not involved in the conversation, well then, aren't we all just a little poorer for the experience?  If Kevin has not made sure his voice, and only his voice, is the one leading us poor sinners out of the wilderness, well then, aren't we all just going to hell?? We wind up ignoring the topic and discussing KEVIN's opinion - because if it is not about Kevin's opinion, well, it just ain't worth discussing.  

Your ego may have you convinced that we little people are in desperate need of your guidance and direction, but in reality, few of us are as stupid as you like to think we are.  We really don't need your "Ultimate Opinion" to either validate our positions, or "challenge us" to think.  No one asked you to be the "boundary pusher" around here, especially when all you do is come across as an egotistical, pompous, bloviated, dismissive, snooty self-righteous asshole who is truly incapable of seeing the other side of any argument, regardless of the topic.  But then it doesn't matter, does it?  Your opinion is the only correct one anyway.  No need for the other side.  We just make asses of ourselves if we try to respond.  Better to shut up.  Better not to start any kind of discussion thread because Kevin will just take it over with his Gospel According to Kevin anyway.  We should just post things in the form of a question and then wait for Kevin to enlighten us with his wisdom.

Even if it is an "act", as you claim from time to time, it is just ridiculous - the ultimate in personal ego trip, since it is all about you and not about consideration for the others on this board.  It kills real discussion and annoys the living shit out of a lot of people as thread after thread is hijacked.  That probably just thrills you right down to your twinkle toes, because for some reason, you desperately need to bring out the worst in people.  You need to bring people down to build yourself up. You need to keep people looking at you so they won't notice how you might compare to others around you.  I will say it again - you and Chopper/Prowler are the SAME GUY - only you just have a better vocabulary.  And unfortunately, your gift for writing gives you a false sense of superiority over those who may not write as well as you.  It is not how you say it, it is what you say.   But if no one reads what you write, it doesn't matter how "awesome" you think it is.  

I am a fool for even responding to you, since I know you get some little orgasmic ego boost from any kind of response, and I despise giving you that validation.  Enjoy your little frisson of glee.  But just remember that it came with a price.

[Kaos]

I am sure they do exist. Just like radical muslim, black and any other form of "hate groups" that are out there.

What does this prove? You are quoting ignorant white racist fucks as a basis for an argument? Why bring it up? What does that have to do with y'alls slap fight? You bringing this shit up is ignorant at best...

Right.  

What's ignorant is to pretend that differing views don't exist and to dismiss them out of hand.  That really leads to progress.  

TW brought up the point of integration with her comments regarding the integration of the military.  I merely pointed out that despite the sense of certainty that came with her sentiment there is a sizable population that would disagree with her premise.  There are many who think that the military HAS suffered as a result of integration.  

I assure you those who consider this position are not all mullet-wearing, 400-lb bubbas with bad teeth and a bulging dip.  Not all are white. The problem is that because of your very response (and the overbearing babble of those like Chizad) people who may think this way don't express it -- except privately.  

Real progress is impeded because people don't speak their minds and bring topics into the open where they can be LEGITIMATELY debated without chowder heads shouting people down as ignorant.  

We've seen enough of that here to validate that.

[Kaos]

There's a shocker.  Yet we are all supposed to alter our own opinions because of a well written rant from a message board doink?

But it begs the question - If you don't care about healthy debate, then why not bow out and let the rest of us actually, you know, debate?  Instead of discussing the issue, it becomes "ALL ABOUT KEVIN", and your insatiable need to be the center of attention. The personal insults don't seem to come flying until you arrive on the scene in your golden chariot, proclaiming to all that The Word of Kevin is forthcoming - ignorance be banished!!   If Kevin is not involved in the conversation, well then, aren't we all just a little poorer for the experience?  If Kevin has not made sure his voice, and only his voice, is the one leading us poor sinners out of the wilderness, well then, aren't we all just going to hell?? We wind up ignoring the topic and discussing KEVIN's opinion - because if it is not about Kevin's opinion, well, it just ain't worth discussing.  

Your ego may have you convinced that we little people are in desperate need of your guidance and direction, but in reality, few of us are as stupid as you like to think we are.  We really don't need your "Ultimate Opinion" to either validate our positions, or "challenge us" to think.  No one asked you to be the "boundary pusher" around here, especially when all you do is come across as an egotistical, pompous, bloviated, dismissive, snooty self-righteous asshole who is truly incapable of seeing the other side of any argument, regardless of the topic.  But then it doesn't matter, does it?  Your opinion is the only correct one anyway.  No need for the other side.  We just make asses of ourselves if we try to respond.  Better to shut up.  Better not to start any kind of discussion thread because Kevin will just take it over with his Gospel According to Kevin anyway.  We should just post things in the form of a question and then wait for Kevin to enlighten us with his wisdom.

Even if it is an "act", as you claim from time to time, it is just ridiculous - the ultimate in personal ego trip, since it is all about you and not about consideration for the others on this board.  It kills real discussion and annoys the living shit out of a lot of people as thread after thread is hijacked.  That probably just thrills you right down to your twinkle toes, because for some reason, you desperately need to bring out the worst in people.  You need to bring people down to build yourself up. You need to keep people looking at you so they won't notice how you might compare to others around you.  I will say it again - you and Chopper/Prowler are the SAME GUY - only you just have a better vocabulary.  And unfortunately, your gift for writing gives you a false sense of superiority over those who may not write as well as you.  It is not how you say it, it is what you say.   But if no one reads what you write, it doesn't matter how "awesome" you think it is.  

I am a fool for even responding to you, since I know you get some little orgasmic ego boost from any kind of response, and I despise giving you that validation.  Enjoy your little frisson of glee.  But just remember that it came with a price.

You're assuming I give a damn. 

You're wrong. 

[Saniflush]

I am sure they do exist. Just like radical muslim, black and any other form of "hate groups" that are out there.

What does this prove? You are quoting ignorant white racist fucks as a basis for an argument? Why bring it up? What does that have to do with y'alls slap fight? You bringing this shit up is ignorant at best...

I hate white people.

[Kaos]

I hate white people.

Thank you Governor Barkley. 

[War Eagle!!!]

Right.  

What's ignorant is to pretend that differing views don't exist and to dismiss them out of hand.  That really leads to progress.  

TW brought up the point of integration with her comments regarding the integration of the military.  I merely pointed out that despite the sense of certainty that came with her sentiment there is a sizable population that would disagree with her premise.  There are many who think that the military HAS suffered as a result of integration.  

I assure you those who consider this position are not all mullet-wearing, 400-lb bubbas with bad teeth and a bulging dip.  Not all are white. The problem is that because of your very response (and the overbearing babble of those like Chizad) people who may think this way don't express it -- except privately.  

Real progress is impeded because people don't speak their minds and bring topics into the open where they can be LEGITIMATELY debated without chowder heads shouting people down as ignorant.  

We've seen enough of that here to validate that.

The whole basis for this explanation is bullshit. And you know it.

[Kaos]

The whole basis for this explanation is bullshit. And you know it.

I know nothing of the sort.

Who has the sole right to determine what is "ignorant" and what is not? (Other than me, that is).

Why do you (or anybody other than me) get to marginalize a group of people just because you don't agree?

Based on what Ive read, I imagine the number of people who think integration was mishandled and has negatively affected many facets of life for ALL ethnicities is at least as high as the number agitating for open homosexuality in the military. But out of fear of reprisal or concern of being branded bigoted (as you were quick to do here) they are less vocal.

All political correctness does is put up a facade. It discourages honest expression. It hides reality behind plastered on smiles.

[War Eagle!!!]

"Integration being mishandled" is a lot different than "integration was the down fall of our modern school system".

The first leaves room for discussion. The second sounds like a racist ass hat.

[Vandy Vol]

I hate white people.

Kill whitey!

[Saniflush]

Kill whitey!

Your pickin' up what I'm puttin' down.

[Vandy Vol]

Your pickin' up what I'm puttin' down.

When can I pick you up, baby?

[Saniflush]

When can I pick you up, baby?

Takes more than a mommas love unlike that gutter slut Taylor you are use to.

[AWK]

Takes more than a mommas love unlike that gutter slut Taylor you are use to.

I work with what I got.