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The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC- THREAD HIJACKED BY TUBS DISCUSSION

Mr. Sensible

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« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:48:52 AM by Mr. Cynical »
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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 01:42:20 PM »
...waiting a long time.
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Kaos

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »
The New Orleans Saints. 

Actually, I'd go with Ohio State.  Not because they're any good, but because the ESPNs of the world already have them elevated to mythical status because they beat Oregon. 

They'll start out top five for sure. 

The SEC next season is going to be bizarre.  Bama will not continue its romp, all things come to an end.  But there is no sure thing beyond the Tide. 

Auburn? Who knows.  Lots of questions.
Georgia? Yeah. Right.
Florida? Lots of questions, no Tebow and half a Meyer.
Tennessee? Turmoil.
Ole Miss?  Typical Nutt turnaround next year and they will challenge for the West title even without Snead
LSU? Miles battling for his job, but a major waste and will flub.
Arkansas?  Stagnant but Mallett inexplicably coming back gives them a chance to be fair.

Mississippi State?  Makes a, bowl, but that's the extent
Vandy?  No.
Kentucky? No.
South Carolina? No.

There just won't be that many "great" teams in the SEC.  We could have another situation where the SEC champion has a couple of losses. 

So, back to OSU.  They will run through the Big 10.  There's nothing there.  You'll have another Boise, Cincy, TCU that will pop up and be undefeated.   You'll also have Texas and Nebraska. 

My bet is that the SEC domination ends this season.  It will be Big 12 vs. Big 10 (OSU).   And I think OSU would win over Nebraska.
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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 01:53:15 PM »
The New Orleans Saints. 

Actually, I'd go with Ohio State.  Not because they're any good, but because the ESPNs of the world already have them elevated to mythical status because they beat Oregon. 

They'll start out top five for sure. 

The SEC next season is going to be bizarre.  Bama will not continue its romp, all things come to an end.  But there is no sure thing beyond the Tide. 

Auburn? Who knows.  Lots of questions.
Georgia? Yeah. Right.
Florida? Lots of questions, no Tebow and half a Meyer.
Tennessee? Turmoil.
Ole Miss?  Typical Nutt turnaround next year and they will challenge for the West title even without Snead
LSU? Miles battling for his job, but a major waste and will flub.
Arkansas?  Stagnant but Mallett inexplicably coming back gives them a chance to be fair.

Mississippi State?  Makes a, bowl, but that's the extent
Vandy?  No.
Kentucky? No.
South Carolina? No.

There just won't be that many "great" teams in the SEC.  We could have another situation where the SEC champion has a couple of losses. 

So, back to OSU.  They will run through the Big 10.  There's nothing there.  You'll have another Boise, Cincy, TCU that will pop up and be undefeated.   You'll also have Texas and Nebraska. 

My bet is that the SEC domination ends this season.  It will be Big 12 vs. Big 10 (OSU).   And I think OSU would win over Nebraska.
Nebraska lost the Suh fellow, I think that might hurt a tad bit.
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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 01:55:42 PM »
My bet is that the SEC domination ends this season.  It will be Big 12 vs. Big 10 (OSU).   And I think OSU would win over Nebraska.
I think, even with a loss or two on their resume, if you leave out the SEC champion after the way these last few years have played out, you will have some deserved outrage.

Will they win? Who knows, but they absolutely should be able to play for it.
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ssgaufan

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 01:56:26 PM »
Oregon vs Big Televen opponent.  Possible rematch of this years Rose Bowl.
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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 01:57:26 PM »
Nebraska lost the Suh fellow, I think that might hurt a tad bit.

True.  

It sort of pisses me off that there's never, ever been a better time to dominate the SEC.  Every program has turmoil of some sort except one.  WE should be the one, but we're not.  So actually, it pisses me off a lot.  

If we could have avoided the trainwreck of 2008, we would be right there poised to battle for supreme domination.  Just my opinion.  It would now essentially be a two team race.  But patience and continuity eluded us.  
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Kaos

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 01:58:38 PM »
I think, even with a loss or two on their resume, if you leave out the SEC champion after the way these last few years have played out, you will have some deserved outrage.

Will they win? Who knows, but they absolutely should be able to play for it.

Disagree. 

The outrage would come from other conferences who "should have their chance" 

Unless the SEC Champion has no losses, my guess is that it gets shut out.  This will be a bad year to win the SEC unless you go unscathed.  Just my thinking.
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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 02:12:48 PM »
True.  

It sort of pisses me off that there's never, ever been a better time to dominate the SEC.  Every program has turmoil of some sort except one.  WE should be the one, but we're not.  So actually, it pisses me off a lot.  

If we could have avoided the trainwreck of 2008, we would be right there poised to battle for supreme domination.  Just my opinion.  It would now essentially be a two team race.  But patience and continuity eluded us.  
Disagree.

I don't think our 2009 would have been quite where it was without the new and fresh tenacity Chizik provided. It wouldn't have been a clone of 08 perhaps, but I don't think a whole hell of a lot better.

And, although I know you'll disagree, I have almost no doubt that Tuberville would not have racked up this recruiting class. There's no precedent to believe he would have, certainly when viewed against time.
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Kaos

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 02:18:14 PM »
Disagree.

I don't think our 2009 would have been quite where it was without the new and fresh tenacity Chizik provided. It wouldn't have been a clone of 08 perhaps, but I don't think a whole hell of a lot better.

And, although I know you'll disagree, I have almost no doubt that Tuberville would not have racked up this recruiting class. There's no precedent to believe he would have, certainly when viewed against time.

You serious Clark? 

I think we would have been a lot better defensively than we were.  Might not have won/lost the same games, but I have no doubt the record would be as good or better. 

He had more top ten classes than he didn't.   

How quickly we forget.  We've also been over this ground repeatedly.  I don't agree with you on this and I never will.  My attempts to convince you differently are fruitless as are yours to change my mind.  Leave it there?
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jadennis

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 02:21:57 PM »
Disagree. 

The outrage would come from other conferences who "should have their chance" 

Unless the SEC Champion has no losses, my guess is that it gets shut out.  This will be a bad year to win the SEC unless you go unscathed.  Just my thinking.

I don't see the SEC being worse than it was this year.  Last year, to me, was a bit of an anomaly with the round robin equality of Auburn, Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, and to some extent even Ole Miss and LSU.

I think next year, someone breaks free from that group and wins a couple of the games they lost last year.  Auburn?  Maybe.   Arkansas?  Maybe.  Tennessee?  Not likely.  Georgia?  Maybe.  But there will more than likely be two teams in the top 10 most of the year, and 2-3 more that float in and out of the top 20.  I think it takes more than one or two years before the dominance of the last decade wears off.

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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 02:29:13 PM »
You serious Clark?  

I think we would have been a lot better defensively than we were.  Might not have won/lost the same games, but I have no doubt the record would be as good or better.  

He had more top ten classes than he didn't.  

How quickly we forget.  We've also been over this ground repeatedly.  I don't agree with you on this and I never will.  My attempts to convince you differently are fruitless as are yours to change my mind.  Leave it there?
We can, but first consider this.

Without Chizik, it's a stretch at best to say we have Malzahn, Trooper, Luper, Grimes, Rocker, Thigpen etc. on our staff.

Without those guys, I don't see us landing most of our 4 & 5* guys. When's the last 5* Auburn ever had? When's the last time we had 3 (and counting)? For all the laughing at the Tiger Prowl, Big Cat Weekend, and Billboard tactics, they sure seemed to work. That was all part of the fire that this staff put into recruiting.

And as I said, you must view Tuberville's recruiting over time. Yes, he did well early in his career, but he peaked. Nothing gold can stay, Ponyboy. It's not a fault of Tuberville's specifically, but there's just no room for complacency in the world of college football. Specifically, he peaked once Saban arrived. Comparing his recruiting efforts against Shula to Chizik's against Saban's Alabama that just came off an undefeated MNC & Heisman winning season, is simply not equivocal.

And even with that newly instated fire that Tuberville now has due to starting fresh at a new program, I don't see Texas Tech at the top of the recruiting rankings. I know, to be fair, he hasn't had time to build a full class, but I doubt we see him there next year either.

But yeah, I'm fully aware that this will go nowhere, so we might as well leave it at that.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 02:52:34 PM by AUChizad »
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jadennis

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 02:37:27 PM »
To answer the original question....Kaos's Ohio State guess is as good as any.  But I'm wondering about Boise State.  They'll start in the top 5 in all likelihood.  They play Oregon State and Virginia Tech.  If they can win those two, and cruise through their other games, as usual, I bet they get a chance to play for it all (barring two undefeated teams from BCS conferences staying in front of them all year).

And if Chris Peterson has shown anything, he can get those Broncos to play waaaay above their heads in the biggest games (Oregon State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Oregon, and TCU in the last 4 years), so you just never know.
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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 02:39:57 PM »
And even with that fire, I don't see Texas Tech at the top of the recruiting rankings. I know, to be fair, he hasn't had time to build a full class, but I doubt we see him there next year either.
And by the way, I checked. None of TTU's five 4*s committed since Leach was fired. I don't know if any have committed since Tuberville arrived at all for that matter, but I didn't see a point in checking beyond the 4 stars.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 02:48:27 PM by AUChizad »
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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 02:45:58 PM »
Unfair comparison. That is all.
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AUChizad

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 02:49:33 PM »
Unfair comparison. That is all.
How so? They share a state with a media darling that just played in the MNC game?

Oh wait...

And Texas is a lot bigger, and more talent rich state than Alabama...
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jadennis

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2010, 02:59:56 PM »
We can, but first consider this.

Without Chizik, it's a stretch at best to say we have Malzahn, Trooper, Luper, Grimes, Rocker, Thigpen etc. on our staff.

Without those guys, I don't see us landing most of our 4 & 5* guys. When's the last 5* Auburn ever had? When's the last time we had 3 (and counting)? For all the laughing at the Tiger Prowl, Big Cat Weekend, and Billboard tactics, they sure seemed to work. That was all part of the fire that this staff put into recruiting.

And as I said, you must view Tuberville's recruiting over time. Yes, he did well early in his career, but he peaked. Nothing gold can stay, Ponyboy. It's not a fault of Tuberville's specifically, but there's just no room for complacency in the world of college football. Specifically, he peaked once Saban arrived. Comparing his recruiting efforts against Shula to Chizik's against Saban's Alabama that just came off an undefeated MNC & Heisman winning season, is simply not equivocal.

And even with that fire, I don't see Texas Tech at the top of the recruiting rankings. I know, to be fair, he hasn't had time to build a full class, but I doubt we see him there next year either.

But yeah, I'm fully aware that this will go nowhere, so we might as well leave it at that.

There is some truth in this.  Tuberville had a highly ranked 2007 class (please don't rebut with how many guys are not currently on the team....on signing day, it was #7).  However, 2008 was ugly, especially given the fact that we had lost so many guys from 2007.  How we ended up with 2 linebackers and 2 offensive lineman in the 2008 class is bothersome.  2009 was also not off to a great start.  Not bad, as it was a top 20 class, but it wasn't going to be a stellar class, for sure.  

And while I don't think Tuberville was at all "scared" of Saban (again, not scared at all), we had clearly lost hold of some of Alabama.  In 2007, Auburn took 7 of the top 20 Alabama recruits, Alabama had 10.  But Auburn did have 5 of the top 11, to Alabama's 4.  

But look at 2008 and 2009.  Alabama took 24 of the top 40 players in Alabama those two years...compared to Auburn's 5 (Chizik added two more late in 2009).  And it's worse at the top.   Alabama took 15 of the top 20 players for those two years.  Auburn had....zero.  Not one player from the top 10 either of those years.  That includes players like Dre Kirkpatrick, Nico Johnson, Julio Jones, Mark Baron, Courtney Upshaw, etc.

Fast forward to 2010.  Both Auburn and Alabama each have 6 of the top 15 in-state players.

But here is one thing to note.  One rumor of Tuberville's departure was that the BOT, in an effort to create a reason to make him resign, ordered that he make wholesale changes on offense with his assistants.  The rumor is that he surprisingly agreed to this request.  That's why two days later, they decided they wanted him gone anyway and offered the severance. (yes, yes, all rumors).

But the point is this.  If he did, in fact, agree to this, I would say the chances of us having Malzahn under Tuberville this year were probably very, very good.  Not to mention, it wouldn't have been Malzahn and the same ole gang.  It would have been Malzahn and a new group.   A new group with an energized recruiting outlook.  A new group selling the same offense our current staff is selling.  

So it's hard to say how the 8-5 record may have varied.  Had we had Malzahn under Tuberville and bit better defense, we may have been 9-4.  But if we didn't have the current assistants we have, maybe the offense wouldn't have been quite as effective...who knows.
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Kaos

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2010, 03:04:29 PM »
How so? They share a state with a media darling that just played in the MNC game?

Oh wait...

And Texas is a lot bigger, and more talent rich state than Alabama...
:cage:

Not enough time to judge. 

Ten days in and he's supposed to perform a miracle? 

You have to give him five years. Isn't that the mantra?
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jadennis

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2010, 03:04:46 PM »
And by the way, I checked. None of TTU's five 4*s committed since Leach was fired. I don't know if any have committed since Tuberville arrived at all for that matter, but I didn't see a point in checking beyond the 4 stars.

Yeah, but guys aren't jumping ship either, like you see at other programs when a coaching change happens.  And if there is a program where guys are committing to the coach, it's Leach.

Also, I'm wondering why you don't think Tuberville will recruit well there.  Is it because it's Tech or because it's Tuberville?  Because to me, Tuberville has proven he can recruit as well as anyone.  He may not have done the best job of his life the last two seasons at Auburn, be that is typically attributed to some loss of "fire" or "commitment" or something.  

If that's the case, shouldn't we assume that in taking a year off and taking over a new program, if that fire is back, why wouldn't he do well in recruiting there? (and "do well" is relative....it is still Texas Tech, in Lubbock, you can't get around that to some extent....he'll likely never have top 10 classes there, but top 20 would suffice and be doing very well for there).
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AWK

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Re: The next non-SEC team to win a BCS NC will be
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 03:14:34 PM »
:cage:

Not enough time to judge. 

Ten days in and he's supposed to perform a miracle? 

You have to give him five years. Isn't that the mantra?
I agree with Tuberville comparison. You have to give him at least 14 months like Chizik if you want to use current vs. current.
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