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Latest and greatest on Newton

Kaos

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #180 on: January 04, 2010, 11:45:51 PM »
I've heard this, and I think that decision would be very telling of the way Rivals evaluates prospects.  I don't mean the "conspiracy" theories.  I think Rivals is very inconsistent in the way they decide who is the top prospects and who isn't.

Don't get me wrong.  Keenan Allen is a stud and will contribute on special teams and have a back up role next year.  However, Seantrel Henderson builds a program.  A stud left tackle is like getting a five star quarterback.  You expect to build the offense around him.  He could go anywhere in the country and compete for the starting job immediately.  You don't remove the #1 ranking just because some skill player is making highlights during practice. 

Also, Ronald Powell and the Okawindmebeuqegue kid are phenoms at the DE position.  They have more of a case for being the #1 prospect.  Those two kids will make an immediate impact at the next level and are as close to sure-things as you can get.  Whoever gets them will have an immediate upgrade in the pass defense.  Can't say the same for a safety. 

Just my two cents.

Recruiting rankings have really gone the way of popular culture.  Half of it is a popularity contest. 

There are great actors who get rightful kudos -- Robert Downey, Jr. -- and then there are those who are famous for little else than being famous -- Heidi and Spencer (i still have no idea who either of them are).   

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Jumbo

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #181 on: January 05, 2010, 02:35:09 AM »
Recruiting rankings have really gone the way of popular culture.  Half of it is a popularity contest. 

There are great actors who get rightful kudos -- Robert Downey, Jr. -- and then there are those who are famous for little else than being famous -- Heidi and Spencer (i still have no idea who either of them are).   


Heidi was Lauren's Bff until Spencer ruined everything.
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The Prowler

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #182 on: January 05, 2010, 02:57:14 AM »
Again with the comprehension problems. 

You and your pal are hopeless.  Absolutely hopeless.   

Giving up now. 
Still adding nothing of substance....*sigh*

You should've just given up.

Quiet Now!!! The adults are talking.
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Token

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #183 on: January 05, 2010, 07:46:11 AM »
So...those rumors coming from SPuat fans, correct?  LMAO.

For the record, your texting buddy is an Auburn fan, correct?

And no.  Everything I posted came from Michael L, who is one of the recruiting analysts/beat writers for Florida State. 

I mean, from da skreets.
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RWS

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #184 on: January 05, 2010, 08:11:10 AM »
So, since AU is taking Newton, one would assume Rollison probably isn't in the picture anymore, for whatever reason. If that is the case, will Chizik get a pass for him "not working out"? Some here have piled on CTT for guys who didn't work out talent-wise, medical issues, and guys who he had to cut loose for discipline/academics later. All of which are pretty hard to predict a few years down the road. However, Chizik got a pass on Aubrey Phillips who transfered to AU, then two weeks later was gone. And for that matter, it was already documented by one program that he had an issue. If Chizik gets a pass for not being able to see two weeks, or a year into the future, why doesn't CTT get a pass? I understand that the whole Rollison situation is hypothetical, but more than likely logical.
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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #185 on: January 05, 2010, 08:20:57 AM »
So, since AU is taking Newton, one would assume Rollison probably isn't in the picture anymore, for whatever reason. If that is the case, will Chizik get a pass for him "not working out"? Some here have piled on CTT for guys who didn't work out talent-wise, medical issues, and guys who he had to cut loose for discipline/academics later. All of which are pretty hard to predict a few years down the road. However, Chizik got a pass on Aubrey Phillips who transfered to AU, then two weeks later was gone. And for that matter, it was already documented by one program that he had an issue. If Chizik gets a pass for not being able to see two weeks, or a year into the future, why doesn't CTT get a pass? I understand that the whole Rollison situation is hypothetical, but more than likely logical.

First we don't know about Rollison.  It IS hypothetical.

Second, when and if we get to a point where we're short over thirty scholarship players by mid-year next year (or the next year after for that matter), we'll see if the attrition, non-qualifiers and player shortages are an actual apples to apples discussion.   Right now, it's not.
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Saniflush

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #186 on: January 05, 2010, 08:23:10 AM »
So, since AU is taking Newton, one would assume Rollison probably isn't in the picture anymore, for whatever reason. If that is the case, will Chizik get a pass for him "not working out"? Some here have piled on CTT for guys who didn't work out talent-wise, medical issues, and guys who he had to cut loose for discipline/academics later. All of which are pretty hard to predict a few years down the road. However, Chizik got a pass on Aubrey Phillips who transfered to AU, then two weeks later was gone. And for that matter, it was already documented by one program that he had an issue. If Chizik gets a pass for not being able to see two weeks, or a year into the future, why doesn't CTT get a pass? I understand that the whole Rollison situation is hypothetical, but more than likely logical.

Chizik gets no more or less quarter in my book than CTT in regards to recruiting success/failure.  Too early to tell if he has the number of misses CTT had the last couple of years. 
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

War Eagle!!!

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #187 on: January 05, 2010, 08:25:49 AM »
So, since AU is taking Newton, one would assume Rollison probably isn't in the picture anymore, for whatever reason. If that is the case, will Chizik get a pass for him "not working out"? Some here have piled on CTT for guys who didn't work out talent-wise, medical issues, and guys who he had to cut loose for discipline/academics later. All of which are pretty hard to predict a few years down the road. However, Chizik got a pass on Aubrey Phillips who transfered to AU, then two weeks later was gone. And for that matter, it was already documented by one program that he had an issue. If Chizik gets a pass for not being able to see two weeks, or a year into the future, why doesn't CTT get a pass? I understand that the whole Rollison situation is hypothetical, but more than likely logical.

Yes, more than likely it is not a hypothetical situation. I am disappointed by it since I thought TR had a lot of potential.

However, it is obvious that these coaches saw something with TR that wasn't going to work and made a quick move to get things saved. You aren't going to bat .1000 on every player, and when you don't, it's up to the coaches to realize this and then fix the problem. Yes, Chizik and Co. get a pass for TR because they immedietly "fixed" the problem. They didn't throw TR out to the wolves and let him get pummeled on the way to a 5 win season...
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Kaos

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #188 on: January 05, 2010, 08:27:44 AM »
In other words its an argument of convenience. 

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War Eagle!!!

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #189 on: January 05, 2010, 08:34:54 AM »
In other words its an argument of convenience. 

Nope. We have had this discussion before. It's the truth. TR is probably not going to work out, so they put into affect Plan B...almost immediately, before any damage had taken place.

How is that a "convenient argument"?
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Kaos

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #190 on: January 05, 2010, 09:08:23 AM »
Nope. We have had this discussion before. It's the truth. TR is probably not going to work out, so they put into affect Plan B...almost immediately, before any damage had taken place.

How is that a "convenient argument"?

Because Tuberville did that his entire time at AU.  When people didn't work out or he was concerned about depth, he got backup.  

We didn't have a coffin Christmas tree running back in 1999 so he went and got Rudi from juco. While he was there he picked up Cobb -- who was the relative equivalent of Newton if you want to know the truth -- so Jason wouldn't be a freshman forced into a starting role.  

The slamming he's taking now comes primarily because AU is short on defense.  Tuberville didn't make Powers leave early, that was a reaction to Chizik or the situation.  He didn't force Marks to bolt early either. Another reaction to Chizik or the situation in general.  Tuberville didn't make Tray Blackmon crazy, but he did try to keep the kid playing.  Can't blame him for that. Tuberville didn't injure Mike McNeill or Aairon Savage.  

The "he lost 30 scholarship players" is really a lot of bullshit backfill.

At least five that Chizik signed his first year didn't qualify -- that's more than all but one of Tuberville's classes if I'm not mistaken.  Six players that were signed in 2008 left the team after Chizik was hired.  Tuberville's fault?  How?

Tuberville had one bad class -- 2007 -- that for a variety of reasons looked really good on paper but didn't translate.   Eight members (22 total stars -- including three four-star players) of that signing class didn't qualify, which was a large number for a typical Tuberville class.  By comparison, only four in 2008 and three in 2006 failed to qualify.  Of the three that failed to qualify in 2006, all of them eventually made it back to AU but one, Raven Gray, never played.

Four of the 2007 class (including linebacker Bo Harris, whose absence contributed to the void at that position) left after Chizik was hired.  Tuberville's fault?  I guess he was hiding in the bushes telling them what to do.

But even in that bad class in 2007, you can't discount what worked:  Byrum, Bynes, Burns, Carter, Carr, Fairley, Freeman, Adam Herring, Mike McNeill, Slade, Ziemba.  

I'm really sick of this argument because it's nothing but spin (albeit on both sides).  Blindly throwing down the "Tuberville was a lazy ass who ate BBQ and didn't care about recruiting because he was scared of Saban" bullshit is asinine when the realities aren't taken into consideration.  

He had one bad recruiting class -- and  on paper it looked pretty fucking awesome at the time.  In 2007 we were celebrating a Top Ten recruiting class, giddy over how we'd dominated Bama.  And if you look at their 07 class they're not getting much mileage out of it.  I'd wager we have more starters from the 07 class on our roster than they do theirs.  

But we're going to rape Tuberville for not being able to see two years into the future?  

I get that he's not coming back.  Not asking for him to come back.  But the same critical standards have to apply.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 09:10:05 AM by Kaos »
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #191 on: January 05, 2010, 09:19:26 AM »
So, since AU is taking Newton, one would assume Rollison probably isn't in the picture anymore, for whatever reason. If that is the case, will Chizik get a pass for him "not working out"? Some here have piled on CTT for guys who didn't work out talent-wise, medical issues, and guys who he had to cut loose for discipline/academics later. All of which are pretty hard to predict a few years down the road. However, Chizik got a pass on Aubrey Phillips who transfered to AU, then two weeks later was gone. And for that matter, it was already documented by one program that he had an issue. If Chizik gets a pass for not being able to see two weeks, or a year into the future, why doesn't CTT get a pass? I understand that the whole Rollison situation is hypothetical, but more than likely logical.

I'm not any more willing to give Chizik a pass on Rollison (if that proves to be true) than I did with Tubs on the other 46%.  However, Phillips' recruitment to Auburn reeked of desperation on the OL from the get go.  Chizik took a serious chance on the kid, mainly because the OL was so depleted that he had nothing to lose.  Was that Chizik's fault?  I think not.
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RWS

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #192 on: January 05, 2010, 09:21:30 AM »
Yes, more than likely it is not a hypothetical situation. I am disappointed by it since I thought TR had a lot of potential.

However, it is obvious that these coaches saw something with TR that wasn't going to work and made a quick move to get things saved. You aren't going to bat .1000 on every player, and when you don't, it's up to the coaches to realize this and then fix the problem. Yes, Chizik and Co. get a pass for TR because they immedietly "fixed" the problem. They didn't throw TR out to the wolves and let him get pummeled on the way to a 5 win season...
However, we don't really know if the problem is fixed. I totally agree with what you're getting at, though. He went out and got another QB. But then again, its not any different than what anybody else does. If a player doesn't work out, you go out and recruit somebody new. Rollison was the #2 dual-threat QB in the country last season, and we are where we are. So its not like Newton is the automatic solution, just because of ranking.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 09:23:05 AM by RWS »
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Saniflush

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #193 on: January 05, 2010, 09:28:02 AM »
 But the same critical standards have to apply.

Cannot apply the same critical standards with the small sampling we have at this point.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Kaos

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #194 on: January 05, 2010, 09:31:32 AM »
Cannot apply the same critical standards with the small sampling we have at this point.

Then you have to judge Tuberville on his career and not the 2007 class. So the "lazy ass" and "BBQ" arguments are all failures of an epic scale.
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Saniflush

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #195 on: January 05, 2010, 09:34:24 AM »
Then you have to judge Tuberville on his career and not the 2007 class. So the "lazy ass" and "BBQ" arguments are all failures of an epic scale.

Fair enough.  Only teh Drill Press is allowed to speak of teh BBQ.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

War Eagle!!!

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #196 on: January 05, 2010, 09:42:44 AM »
Kaos, I am not a TT basher. Not at all. I thought TT gave up a bit toward the end and lost some fire and Saban ate his lunch. That's it. I actually agree with you. But, if you are saying that TT "in his first years", did the same thing as Chizik "in his first year", why not give Chizik some credit for that. Why bash Chizik for doing what he thinks is best for the Auburn program?

I truly don't know if Chizik is the guy or not. I saw Auburn do some stupid shit this past year that makes me really doubt him. BUT, he has also done some really good things that make me believe in what he is selling. Why can't you admit that?

Every time this argument comes up, you bring up TT and compare him. "Well, TT did the same thing his first year." You know what? GREAT! Maybe, just maybe, we can have another 10 years like we had under TT. I wouldn't mind that...
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Token

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #197 on: January 05, 2010, 09:42:58 AM »


He had one bad recruiting class -- and  on paper it looked pretty phuking awesome at the time.  In 2007 we were celebrating a Top Ten recruiting class, giddy over how we'd dominated Bama.  And if you look at their 07 class they're not getting much mileage out of it.  I'd wager we have more starters from the 07 class on our roster than they do theirs.  


You may have something here.

Starters from the 2007 class
Rolando McClain
Kareem Jackson
William Vlachos
Marquis Maze

Players in 2 deep
Josh Chapman
Darius Hanks

Players 3 deep or no playing time
Luther Davis
Brandon Gibson
Demetrius Goode
Jeremy Griffith
Nick Gentry
Alfred McCullough
Kerry Murphy
Chavis Williams
Alex Watkins
Chris Underwood

Players not on team
Terrance Farmer
Elliot McGaskin
Patrick Crump
Nick Fanuzzi
Jeremy Elder
Jennings Hester
Chris Lett
Michael Ricks
Jamar Taylor

So, only 6 players really contributed to the team this season.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 09:44:20 AM by Token »
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AUChizad

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #198 on: January 05, 2010, 10:42:03 AM »
Kaos, I am not a TT basher. Not at all. I thought TT gave up a bit toward the end and lost some fire and Saban ate his lunch. That's it. I actually agree with you. But, if you are saying that TT "in his first years", did the same thing as Chizik "in his first year", why not give Chizik some credit for that. Why bash Chizik for doing what he thinks is best for the Auburn program?

I truly don't know if Chizik is the guy or not. I saw Auburn do some stupid shit this past year that makes me really doubt him. BUT, he has also done some really good things that make me believe in what he is selling. Why can't you admit that?

Every time this argument comes up, you bring up TT and compare him. "Well, TT did the same thing his first year." You know what? GREAT! Maybe, just maybe, we can have another 10 years like we had under TT. I wouldn't mind that...
This.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Auburn fan to say Tuberville was a piece of shit throughout his tenure. That's an extreme mischaracterization of everyone's argument.

You absolutely can compare Chizik's first year to Tuberville's last year, because that was the direction the program was heading. The milk was going sour. Comparing their first years and seeing that they are comparable, with Chizik's being stronger (Tubs was 5-6, and I don't know where his recruiting class ended up, but it wasn't Top 3, I assure you that), then apparently that's the reboot we needed.
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DnATL

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Re: Latest and greatest on Newton
« Reply #199 on: January 05, 2010, 12:40:14 PM »

We didn't have a coffin Christmas tree running back in 1999 so he went and got Rudi from juco. While he was there he picked up Cobb -- who was the relative equivalent of Newton if you want to know the truth -- so Jason wouldn't be a freshman forced into a starting role.  

Actually, he picked up Cobb first from Coffeeville JC in KS.  Cobb asked if they needed a RB, and suggested Rudi to the Auburn coaches.  That assist is why in hindsight I am OK with Cobb, despite some his play as QB.  But, they were in Kansas first and foremost to get Cobb, and Rudi was the oh-by-the-way other guy.  (Recruiting stars didn't account for Rudi's want-to and purpose-driven focus on getting to the NFL).

I liked Tubs (and still do), and thought he was handicapped by the complacency of his assistants with regards to recruiting.  For instance, Borges never seemed to be much of a recruiter, especially after adopting a young son.  (Can't fault him for family over a job).  Little nicky came in with a bunch of young/hungry/both guys working for him, and all of them had some fire in their belly to outwork the guys at AU, and they did.

Imagine Tubs with Malzahn as OC, and replace a couple of offensive coaches (Grimes for OL and Taylor for WR's).
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