Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II

[RWS]

Thus, it comes down to the point that neither one of us is going to agree on, and that's the resources and circumstances Chizik finds himself in here as opposed to ISU.  You can call me every colorful animal, or stupid, or anything else, but I just do NOT find it to be the same in the least.  Funny thing is, I'm the ONLY one here between the two of us who actually has lived, or lived next two BOTH locations and could give first hand knowledge, but you think you seem to know better anyway.  You can argue, bitch and moan, explain, make up and fabricate ALLL you want, but it doesn't make Auburn University and Iowa State the same situation.  It just doesn't.  Period.

Mike Shula was given all the support and resources he could want. Alabama is a football school in the SEC. He was given an extension a year before he was fired. He still sucked, because he's a bad coach. You can have all the support, tools, resources, whatever you want to call it, in the world, and it doesn't make you a better coach automatically. If you're going to hang your hat on "well, he has more support and resources at AU", you may want to find a stronger hat rack. You guys want Shula as your next head coach? I mean, he would have alot of resources at his disposal. Auburn isn't the same place as Tuscaloosa. Its not the same situation. Soooo, he's guaranteed to be successful, right?

[wesfau2]

Mike Shula was given all the support and resources he could want. Alabama is a football school in the SEC. He was given an extension a year before he was fired. He still sucked, because he's a bad coach. You can have all the support, tools, resources, whatever you want to call it, in the world, and it doesn't make you a better coach. If you're going to hang your hat on "well, he has more support and resources at AU", you may want to find a stronger hat rack. You guys want Shula as your next head coach? I mean, he would have alot of resources at his disposal. Auburn isn't the same place as Iowa State. Its not the same situation. Soooo, he's guaranteed to be successful, right?

Apples and fucking cantaloupes.

Chizik was ultra-successful at every stop along his career...except the abyss that is Ames, Iowa.

Shula was a middling coach who was handed positions thanks to his daddy's connections.

Edited to clarify: Shula's assistant coaching positions were the product of nepotism.  His stint at Bama was attributable mostly to his being a member of the "family".

[Kaos]

Nothing but re-hash of the same ignorance to the facts.  I'm seeing a trend.

You sir, are hopeless.

Iowa State's improvement under McCarney was a trend.

Blueprint's death spiral was a trend.

You wouldn't know a trend if it took a dump on your head.

You are a braying donkey. With green fur.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

Apples and fucking cantaloupes.

Chizik was ultra-successful at every stop along his career...except the abyss that is Ames, Iowa.

Shula was a middling coach who was handed positions thanks to his daddy's connections.

Exactly.  We've actually had the debate, bringing Shula into this, and at that time, I said, for that argument to hold water, we'd have to consider Shula and Chizik to be on level ground.  I don't believe that Shula is on the same level as Chizik, and still wouldn't be today.

[Kaos]

Apples and effing cantaloupes.

Chizik was ultra-successful at every stop along his career...except the abyss that is Ames, Iowa.

Shula was a middling coach who was handed positions thanks to his daddy's connections.

There is a difference between being an assistant and being the head coach.

Surely you can recognize that.

[Snaggletiger]

Mike Shula was given all the support and resources he could want. Alabama is a football school in the SEC. He was given an extension a year before he was fired. He still sucked, because he's a bad coach. You can have all the support, tools, resources, whatever you want to call it, in the world, and it doesn't make you a better coach automatically. If you're going to hang your hat on "well, he has more support and resources at AU", you may want to find a stronger hat rack. You guys want Shula as your next head coach? I mean, he would have alot of resources at his disposal. Auburn isn't the same place as Tuscaloosa. Its not the same situation. Soooo, he's guaranteed to be successful, right?

That's not the argument at all.  Nobody on this board since the man was hired has said Chizik will automatically be successful and a great Corch just because he's at Auburn.  The issue is whether 5-19 is indicative of Chizik's corching ability or simply a product of the football black hole that is Ames, Iowa.  

Now that Chizik has all the tools and support at his disposal, he's either going to make the best of them and prove his worth or his incompetence.  He may turn out to be Mike Shula. He could also be Mark Richt.  No excuses either way.    

[RWS]

Apples and fucking cantaloupes.

Chizik was ultra-successful at every stop along his career*...except the abyss that is Ames, Iowa.

Shula was a middling coach who was handed positions thanks to his daddy's connections.

FTFY

* = as a coordinator

And you're accusing me of comparing apples and cantaloupes. Being the head coach is a whole different ball game than being only a coordinator, or co-coordinator as he was at Texas. Thats fine that he did well as a coordinator. It doesn't have shit to do with his performance as a head coach, especially when he has been head coach somewhere else and failed miserably. You guys tend to point out his success as a coordinator, but don't want to talk about his shortcomings as a head coach, which is really the only true comparison. Yes, yes, yes, Chopper......AU is not Iowa State, we know. 

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

Iowa State's improvement under McCarney was a trend.

2000 Iowa State 9-3 (Sage Rosenfels' Senior year)
2001 Iowa State 7-5 (Seneca Wallace's Junior year)
2002 Iowa State 7-7 (Seneca Wallace's Senior year)
2003 Iowa State 2-10
2004 Iowa State 7-5
2005 Iowa State 7-5
2006 Iowa State 4-8

I see no consistent trend of improvement here.  Only a program stuck in neutrel with a few nose dives, concluding with his final season at 4-8.  His final season would have to have been an improvement, not a failure for this statement to be fact.  He either resigned, or was forced to resign.  Point is moot.

Blueprint's death spiral was a trend.

Your opinion, not fact. ...but you're welcome to it.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

Yes, yes, yes, Chopper......AU is not Iowa State, we know. 

Yes yes yes, but you and Kaos CONSTANTLY base Chizik's success, or lack there off based on this.  Glad you're slowly realizing this.

If you want to compare Chizik and Shula, let's wait a few years after Chizk has the opportunity with the same resources at Auburn, as Shula had at Alabama.  Then, and ONLY then, can you even start to have that debate.

[RWS]

That's not the argument at all.  Nobody on this board since the man was hired has said Chizik will automatically be successful and a great Corch just because he's at Auburn.  The issue is whether 5-19 is indicative of Chizik's corching ability or simply a product of the football black hole that is Ames, Iowa.  

Now that Chizik has all the tools and support at his disposal, he's either going to make the best of them and prove his worth or his incompetence.  He may turn out to be Mike Shula. He could also be Mark Richt.  No excuses either way.    

The deal is, obviously Chopper does believe that Chizik will be successful at AU. Thats no real secret. Your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at. The only difference is I believe it will show the latter. But, thats just my opinion.

[wesfau2]

There is a difference between being an assistant and being the head coach.

Surely you can recognize that.

Absolutely.

Shula's first head gig was Bama.

Chizik's first head gig was ISU.

Those schools are not on equal footing as far as facilities and tools available for the coach.

Both men failed miserably, but one had many more advantages.

We shall see now if Chizik is Shula-caliber, or if his previous successes are more indicative of his abilities.

[Godfather]

FTFY

* = as a coordinator

And you're accusing me of comparing apples and cantaloupes. Being the head coach is a whole different ball game than being only a coordinator, or co-coordinator as he was at Texas. Thats fine that he did well as a coordinator. It doesn't have shit to do with his performance as a head coach, especially when he has been head coach somewhere else and failed miserably. You guys tend to point out his success as a coordinator, but don't want to talk about his shortcomings as a head coach, which is really the only true comparison. Yes, yes, yes, Chopper......AU is not Iowa State, we know. 

How the fuck does Mike Shula keep getting brought into this conversation? RWS do you have him locked in your basement or something?

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

The deal is, obviously Chopper does believe that Chizik will be successful at AU. Thats no real secret. Your last statement pretty much sums up what I'm getting at. The only difference is I believe it will show the latter. But, thats just my opinion.

Again, where have I said this?  I'm only arguing about the people that have already said he's NOT going to be.  This is something you and Kaos CONSTANTLY (again) whiff on.

Amazing.

[wesfau2]

FTFY

* = as a coordinator

You didn't fix jack shit, dickhole.  We're all (yourself included) aware of Chizik's resume.  I acknowledged that ISU, his sole HC gig, was a failure.

And you're accusing me of comparing apples and cantaloupes. Being the head coach is a whole different ball game than being only a coordinator, or co-coordinator as he was at Texas. Thats fine that he did well as a coordinator. It doesn't have shit to do with his performance as a head coach, especially when he has been head coach somewhere else and failed miserably. You guys tend to point out his success as a coordinator, but don't want to talk about his shortcomings as a head coach, which is really the only true comparison. Yes, yes, yes, Chopper......AU is not Iowa State, we know. 

Hey, bucko, you started comparing Shula and Chizik.  Shula hadn't been the head man anywhere prior to hitting the SEC.  I'm willing to give Chizik a mulligan on his HC time in Ames because, as proven over and over, NO ONE wins in Ames. That said, I think it was valuable experience in the role of HC.

Therefore, the only comparison to be drawn will be drawn after Chizik and Shula have equal time in the SEC at their first HC job with any possibility of success.

[RWS]

Yes yes yes, but you and Kaos CONSTANTLY base Chizik's success, or lack there off based on this.  Glad you're slowly realizing this.

If you want to compare Chizik and Shula, let's wait a few years after Chizk has the opportunity with the same resources at Auburn, as Shula had at Alabama.  Then, and ONLY then, can you even start to have that debate.

I'm not comparing the coaches themselves to each other as much as I am comparing situations. Obviously, Shula had an optimal situation at Alabama with all of the tools and resources he could want. He was not a good coach, so he did not succeed. If you don't know how to use, or take advantage of your resources, or decipher what those resources give you, then they aren't doing you much good. Will Chizik be the next Shula? I don't know. I have my own opinion, but its just that. I'm simply giving you examples of situations and opportunities, and how they can be squandered.

[War Eagle!!!]

How may times can you fuckers argue the same. fucking. thing?

F U C K

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

How may times can you fuckers argue the same. fucking. thing?

F U C K

Is this a challenge?   

[RWS]

How may times can you fuckers argue the same. fucking. thing?

F U C K

Don't tempt us. Between Kaos, Chopper, and I, we will fuck your world up. If you could speed up time and make football season start, this would solve much of your problem. kthx.

[Godfather]

2000 Iowa State 9-3 (Sage Rosenfels' Senior year)
2001 Iowa State 7-5 (Seneca Wallace's Junior year)
2002 Iowa State 7-7 (Seneca Wallace's Senior year)
2003 Iowa State 2-10
2004 Iowa State 7-5
2005 Iowa State 7-5
2006 Iowa State 4-8

I see no consistent trend of improvement here.  Only a program stuck in neutrel with a few nose dives, concluding with his final season at 4-8.  His final season would have to have been an improvement, not a failure for this statement to be fact.  He either resigned, or was forced to resign.  Point is moot.

Your opinion, not fact. ...but you're welcome to it.

Gotta give the point to Chop here.  Kaos still in the lead, but Chops arguments have been much improved as of late.

[Godfather]

How may times can you fuckers argue the same. fucking. thing?

F U C K

I believe the number is right around 352