A man after Prowler's heart......

Saniflush · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:02:59 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA does not follow the same procedure that the court system does. They do not care how they get the information just that it is out in the open. Who cares if it is inadmissible is their view.

Argo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:10:13 AM »

Quote from: stewiegriffin on April 09, 2009, 09:42:40 AM

Jim Rockford use to get Dennis at the police dept. to do it all the time on the Rockford Files, so it must be OK

not sure that would be the part I was worried about if I was an alabama fan

Let me put this in another way. When I was sworn into my job, it was made clear to me that I would go to jail IF I abused my NCIC privileges. That meant running tags, VIN numbers and personal information through NCIC without a legal reason for doing so.

We're talking about digging into someone's privacy by a regular citizen through a law enforcement officer. That is as illegal as it gets. IF this person really had a local law enforcement officer to run tags and gather personal information, he would have been arrested by the feds when he turned the info in to them. NCIC is operated by the F.B.I. and information like this dumbass says he gathered could be easily tracked.

For the record, I'm not worried about any of it. Whatever we get from the textbook violation is what we get. I'm just pointing out how dumb people really are.

AuburnChopper 3.0 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:27:56 AM »

You might be absolutely correct Argo, but it appears legal or not, if the NCAA gets the info, it will be admissible and used against a guilty party. We shall see.

RWS · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:48:55 AM »

Quote from: AWK on April 09, 2009, 05:07:07 AM

It is not illegal to run a license plate, it is illegal to use the NCIC in this way... Don't mind me, continue...

If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.

Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.

AWK · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2009, 01:41:48 PM »

Quote from: Argo on April 09, 2009, 08:42:14 AM

I don't think I'm following you. It's not illegal to run a license plate for any member of law enforcement. It is illegal for a citizen to get a law enforcement officer to run another citizen's license plate.

Is that what you are saying? If so, I agree, and thought I said the same thing.

That was my point, sorry, I was drunk.

AWK · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2009, 01:46:52 PM »

Quote from: runswithscissors on April 09, 2009, 10:48:55 AM

If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.

Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.

You can look up a tag number online... However...like I was trying to say earlier...it is illegal. After Rebecca Schaeffer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer was murdered in 1989 by a deranged fan who located her through DMV records, laws were changed drastically, regarding the release of such records. As a result, no, you cannot get someone's name or other personal information, from a license plate number.

JR4AU · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2009, 01:59:15 PM »

Quote from: runswithscissors on April 09, 2009, 10:48:55 AM

If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.

Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.

What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.

Saniflush · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2009, 02:08:52 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on April 09, 2009, 01:59:15 PM

What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.

I buy that portion.

JohnDeere · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:36:45 PM »

I guess this dumb ass Bammer posting on this site have never applied for a new auto insurance policy...

VIN + TAG # + Home address + First Name + Last Name + SSN = new policy

Supposedly, RWS has some top secret super dupper secret squirrel special access to the only database system in the world that contains VINS and Car Tag #s......holy shit I'm proud to lurk on the same Auburn Football message board that he posts on, so I glean ~~knowledge~~ bs from him.

RWS · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:37:29 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on April 09, 2009, 01:59:15 PM

What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.

Drivers license info is certainly not public information because it contains information such as your SSN. Even if your DL does not show a SSN on your hardcopy, it is still maintained in the DL record. The registered owner of a vehicle is also not public information either. If I am mistaken, please show me a website or tool where the public can legally input a tag number and it will give you the registered owner. You can put a VIN number in Carfax, but I believe all you will get is any events or changes in ownership, but I don't believe it will tell you who the owners actually were.

RWS · « **Reply #30 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:41:27 PM »

Quote from: JohnDeere on April 09, 2009, 03:36:45 PM

I guess this dumb ass Bammer posting on this site have never applied for a new auto insurance policy...

VIN + TAG # + Home address + First Name + Last Name + SSN = new policy

Supposedly, RWS has some top secret super dupper secret squirrel special access to the only database system in the world that contains VINS and Car Tag #s......holy shit I'm proud to lurk on the same Auburn Football message board that he posts on, so I glean ~~knowledge~~ bs from him.

Uhhhhhh......I work for a police department, therefore I have access to NCIC and LETS. I'm pretty sure I know how this works.....Are you really that stupid that you don't even pay attention to the thread before commenting? Please show me a public tool that you can put a car tag into and it will give you their registration info. Also, feel free to show me a public tool that will show you somebody's full DL info by feeding it their name. And since you used the insurance company as an example, please find me an insurance company I could call and get all of the information you just listed by asking pretty please. Last I checked, I doubt you will find an insurance carrier that will give away a policyholder's personal info. I guess using your example, Blue Cross Blue Shield can just give away anybody's personal info as well.

stewiegriffin · « **Reply #31 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:43:50 PM »

Quote from: runswithscissors on April 09, 2009, 03:41:27 PM

Uhhhhhh......I work for a police department, therefore I have access to NCIC and LETS. I'm pretty sure I know how this works.....Are you really that stupid that you don't even pay attention to the thread before commenting? Please show me a public tool that you can put a car tag into and it will give you their registration info. Also, feel free to show me a public tool that will show you somebody's full DL info by feeding it their name.

hey, would it be possible for you to run some plates for us, since you work @ police dept.? Please

RWS · « **Reply #32 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:46:23 PM »

Quote from: stewiegriffin on April 09, 2009, 03:43:50 PM

hey, would it be possible for you to run some plates for us, since you work @ police dept.? Please

+1

JR4AU · « **Reply #33 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:51:48 PM »

Quote from: runswithscissors on April 09, 2009, 03:37:29 PM

Drivers license info is certainly not public information because it contains information such as your SSN. Even if your DL does not show a SSN on your hardcopy, it is still maintained in the DL record. The registered owner of a vehicle is also not public information either. If I am mistaken, please show me a website or tool where the public can legally input a tag number and it will give you the registered owner. You can put a VIN number in Carfax, but I believe all you will get is any events or changes in ownership, but I don't believe it will tell you who the owners actually were.

Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.

RWS · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:57:29 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on April 09, 2009, 01:59:15 PM

What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.

I forgot about this in my original reply, but thought it was funny.

A little after I started, I was logged onto my NCIC account and went to Burger King for some food. Well, there was a traffic stop and the guy's license # was like 0000xxx (the x were actually numbers). Nobody had seen one like that before, and it turns out the guy was a retired State Trooper. Apparently when Guy Hunt was in office he had the DL formats changed to the 7 character format. Well, the other dispatcher and a narcotics officer decided they wanted to see who had 0000001. Needless to say, it was a person well known to Alabamians (FYI not Bob Riley). When I got back they told me about it and I thought it was hilarious and we were making jokes about the ABI and others coming down......until I realized I was the user logged in, not her. The next day, ACJIC called down to inquire, but never really did anything about it.

JohnDeere · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:57:47 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on April 09, 2009, 03:51:48 PM

Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.

It is not public information, it is the property of the company that has collected it from customers.

RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?

RWS · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:59:53 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on April 09, 2009, 03:51:48 PM

Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.

A SSN is not public record. An OLN number is not public record. Registrant data is not public record. Sorry if I believe the FBI and the State of Alabama over you.

I'm still waiting on the websites or places I can legally acquire the information I described in my other post.

Argo · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:04:26 PM »

Quote from: JohnDeere on April 09, 2009, 03:57:47 PM

It is not public information, it is the property of the company that has collected it from customers.

RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?

I hate to speak for RWS, but, yes he does. That's why databases like NCIC and LETS were created in the first place.

You can't legally gather my personal information through any means other than some type of government controlled database. Insurance companies can't legally give you my information. AWK has already posted a link proving that.

RWS · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:07:58 PM »

Quote from: JohnDeere on April 09, 2009, 03:57:47 PM

RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?

Dumbest. Statement. Ever.

Its called NCIC. There is information within NCIC (a LAW ENFORCEMENT DATABASE) that is not public record, and is contained only within NCIC, and within the local agency who sent it into NCIC. We have to be fingerprinted and screened by the FBI to have access to this information. Yes, I have access to information that you are not going to be able to find anywhere except in that database.

JR4AU · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:13:05 PM »

Quote from: runswithscissors on April 09, 2009, 03:59:53 PM

A SSN is not public record. An OLN number is not public record. Registrant data is not public record. Sorry if I believe the FBI and the State of Alabama over you.

I'm still waiting on the websites or places I can legally acquire the information I described in my other post.

You need to quit thinking that the internet has all public information. Access to such information is limited and must be for a legitimate purpose, IE a company checking potential employee information. But it is available if you want to jump through the hoops to get it. You can't just walk in to the local DMV and ask for a list of license numbers and people they belong to, but if you have a legitimate purpose, you can access the information.

Are you a police officer? You said you work for a police dept?

You may want to read these: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2721.html

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_XVII_4/page2.htm

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/GV/content/htm/gv.005.00.000552.00.htm