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5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work

Tiger Wench

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5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« on: February 25, 2009, 12:29:41 PM »
http://www.cracked.com/article_17084_5-ways-people-are-trying-save-world-that-dont-work.html

Between the hybrids, the reusable canvas shopping bags and cloth diapers, everybody's doing their little bit to save the world. Entire industries have sprang up to cater to us socially-responsible types who want to leave behind a better world for the robots to inherit once they take over.

But, most of the time, making you feel better is about all it does. For instance...

#5.Buying Organically Grown Food

Why People Do It:  Seems like a no-brainer. Organic food eliminates the use of chemical fertilizers, hormones and pesticides. Getting rid of all those nasty chemicals means healthier foods and less contamination to the planet. And anything that's organic or natural has to be better for you, right? It's like you're eating the opposite of Twinkies here.

Why They Shouldn't:  So what's the problem with eating healthier food and saving the Earth? Nothing, except that the food may not be any healthier. And that's even if you can afford the (much) higher prices. Oh, and the impact on the planet may actually be worse.

The funny thing about those chemical fertilizers and pesticides is that they were invented for a reason, and that's to increase food production. Turns out organic farming is pretty damn inefficient. Holding hands and thinking peaceful thoughts does dick all against pests that want to eat your crops and weeds that want to choke them out. The current acre of farmland produces 200 percent more wheat than it did 70 years ago. The same goes for meat and poultry. The chemicals did that for us.

Take them away, and suddenly you're getting less food per acre of land. According to some guy who won a Nobel Prize, we could feed 4 billion people if we went all organic. This sounds great except maybe to the 2.5 billion people who would be left without anything to eat.

A tiny fraction of the people organic food would leave starving.

Despite all the claims that chemicals used in farming are bad for us, it turns out cancer rates have dropped 15 percent since farmers began using chemicals. How is that possible? Well it's mainly due to people being able to afford more fruits and vegetables, because the chemicals allow more to be grown. That's one reason the average life expectancy in the US went up by almost 10 years between 1950 and 2000.

As for the environment, it turns out organic farming has its own issues. Because it is much less efficient, there is actually a shortage of organic food available. This leads to people having the food shipped in from much further away. We're no scientists, but we think that doing things like shipping organic milk 900 miles over the highway in a truck belching diesel fumes is probably canceling out any environmental benefits you might have gained from going organic.

Oh, and did we mention organic farming uses a lot of manure to fertilize crops? This results in a greater risk of contamination. Although organic produce only accounts for one percent of the food supply, it accounts for eight percent of the E. coli cases in the U.S.

Basically, you are at greater risk of eating a shit sandwich, which is admittedly organic, but still.

#4.Rejecting Vaccinations

Why People Do It:  Because the chemical cocktails in vaccines are poisoning our children! Depending on what websites or episode of Oprah you watch, vaccines contain poisonous mercury, and are causing everything from autism to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, which is about as scary a medical term as you can have without using " flesh eating" or " dick melting."

Why They Shouldn't:  In a word: science. While the folks pushing the anti-vaccination agenda mean well (though some seem to be doing it out of a knee-jerk fear of "Big Pharma") their claims aren't backed up by the actual studies.
 
"Trust me, those medicines will only make you sick. Also, I'm sorry, you seem to be dying for some reason."

Apparently the whole autism scare was based on a 1998 report which has since been rejected by all the major health organizations, and was even retracted by its authors in 2004. In the scientific world, that's the equivalent of calling bullshit on yourself.

As for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, studies actually showed that the cases of SIDS actually went down 40 percent even as vaccination rates went up. This is science's way of saying "You are fucking wrong."

"According to my chart, you are a fucking moron."

A lot of the arguments against vaccination focus on the fact that a preservative used in some vaccines contains mercury. There are only two problems with this: the type they were using wasn't dangerous, and they stopped using it in 2001.

We're not saying vaccines have no risk. As with any drug, there is a chance some kids may have a bad reaction. But the odds of serious side effects are fairly slim compared to the risk of catching the disease if children are not vaccinated.

The thing is that when enough parents decide not to vaccinate their kids, those little germ factories start doing what they do best and epidemics break out. Then you end up with a little snotty babies running around infecting people like some kind of really cute zombie apocalypse.

"Bwwwaaaaaiiinnnsssss."

#3.Recycling

Why People Do It:  We've all been raised to believe that unless we all recycle, our forests will soon be barren and we'll be living among mountains of our own filth, Wall-E style.

Recycling is also supposed to use fewer resources and create less pollution. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Why They Shouldn't:  The image of the paper industry hacking down every tree until we were all gasping for lack of oxygen was always ridiculous; we've increased the number of trees over the last 50 years as logging companies plant more to ensure future supply.

Equally silly were the warnings most of us got hammered with growing up, about tales of overflowing landfills, full of trash that takes thousands of years to biodegrade. At least in America, we were never in danger of walking through streets of garbage. Some expert at Gonzaga University, with a lot of time on his hands, calculated that at current rates all the garbage in the US over the next 1,000 years would fill up a 35 square mile landfill 100 yards deep.

This sounds like one of those "Holy shit!" scary figures until you consider this is about one tenth of one percent of the land currently used for grazing in the US. Also, this would be the accumulation over 1,000 years by which time we should have bigger things to worry about, like overthrowing our robotic overlords.

As for saving resources by recycling, this is where it gets tricky. Partly this is because whether or not recycling saves resources depends on whether you consider human labor to be a resource (that is, the effort to pick up, sort and transfer the items to be recycled). Recycling requires more trucks, more crews and more people to oversee the entire process. In Los Angeles alone there are twice as many garbage trucks than there would have been without the recycling program. Just like those douchebags who drive to the gym to run on a treadmill but still hop in the car to go the one block to the corner store to pick up their pork rinds and soda, it's not clear just how much benefit there is at the end of the day.

Also, re-using something is not always better than just tossing it away. A chemist at the University of Victoria calculated that you would need to use a ceramic mug 1,000 times before you would see benefits over using disposable polystyrene cups for those 1,000 cups of coffee. This is because it takes far more energy to make that mug and takes energy and water to wash it after each use.

Now obviously you can't take that to the extreme and go to a lifestyle of all-disposable dishes and clothes, and where every ink pen is sold in box made up of three pounds of cardboard and plastic. But the problem was never as bad as they kept telling us.

#2.Using Antibacterial Soap

Why People Do It:  Bacteria make us sick. The only way for us (and our precious children) to stay healthy is to kill the fuckers. Referring to the bacteria there, not the precious children.

Unless...

These days you can get antibacterial anything: hand soap, dish soap, hand lotion, edible panties, gun oil. We'll have those bacteria eradicated in no time!

Why They Shouldn't:  Nature is a funny thing. Not "knock-knock joke" funny, but "horrifying death preceded by agonizing suffering" funny. The thing about biology is that while it is really easy to kill a lot of something, it's a lot harder to kill all of something. And the survivors tend to be a lot tougher and pissed off.

Thus, there is concern that the stronger bacteria will become resistant as the weaker bacteria are killed off by our shelves of antibacterial products, leaving only the resistant ones behind. Darwinism works its magic.

Bacteria. Maybe.

This has already happened with the staphylococcus bacteria, which have developed strains that laugh at penicillin like Superman laughs at bullets, except Superman won't cause you to develop pus-filled boils and kill you afterward.

If the idea of super germs isn't scary enough, it turns out the same chemicals we're using to try and kill those germs may actually be making us sick as well. The active ingredient in antibacterial soap is now thought to have the potential to affect sex hormones and the nervous system both. In fact, the chemicals causing the concern have been found in the urine of 75 percent of people, which means the poison is probably in your wiener right now.

If all this still isn't ironic enough for you, then consider that getting rid of all those bacteria may actually be worse for us in the long run. Scientists believe that kids who are kept in sterile environments develop more allergies. The theory is that these kids are not exposed to the germs and their immune systems never develop the natural resistance to them. Basically it means our immune systems are playing Dungeons & Dragons instead of pumping iron and taking Karate and banging hot chicks.

The final nail in this comedy of errors and mixed metaphors is that studies found that using antibacterial soap is no better than using regular soap. Just one more marketing gimmick.

#1.Buying Carbon Offsets

Why People Do It:  Unless you think it would be awesome to have have Earth turn into freaking Tatooine, you're probably in favor of stopping global warming.  Carbon offsets are supposed to make you carbon neutral, by paying to have someone else reduce their carbon dioxide output in an amount equal to the amount you are putting into the air with your decadent, Hummer-driving lifestyle.

Why They Shouldn't:  At the end of the day, much like buying your girlfriend a bracelet after a night in the champagne room, it's debatable whether you are doing anything except paying to clear your own guilty conscience.
 
Because I love you?

You're buying a promise from someone else that they are going to reduce their own carbon emissions by a certain amount. The trouble is that currently there is no standard or authority that monitors the offsets.

Investigations found that often, people buying offsets have bought worthless promises. Even when the company offering the offset follows through, there still might not be any additional benefit because the company who took your credits was already planning to reduce its emissions anyway.

They couldn't design a functional one that looked like a middle finger, but they wanted to.

Take, for example, the company that sold carbon offsets based on a plan to reduce methane gas at a landfill. It sounded great until investigations revealed that the methane reduction plan was in place long before the offsets were sold. That part of the plan is all well and good, but it completely destroys the whole concept of buying and selling carbon offsets. Nothing was being "offset."

Man, if we can't trust a painless "something for nothing" scheme to save the world, what can we trust?

See some more stupid shit people did in the name of a cause, in The 6 Most Insane Moral Panics in American History. Or find out exactly what can happen when you respond to unfounded rumors, in 7 Bullshit Rumors That Caused Real World Catastrophes.  And visit Cracked.com's Top Picks because it will cure cancer (seriously).

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CCTAU

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 01:00:24 PM »
I'm on the fence with the vaccination thing. I think the multiple ones they give today can bring about allergic reactions in some children. When we were kids, we got a shot for each thing individually. I would like to see them go back to that. Whenever you start mixing multiple use concoctions, less control is achieved.

So for those who refuse, are they really refusing to vaccinate, or are they against the current concoctions?

Tough call. All of my kids are up to date but I know vaccines can trigger allergic reactions. And those reactions can be devastating for the child and the family.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Tiger Wench

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 03:34:46 PM »
That is a miniscule minority - and an allergic reaction is better than an outbreak of smallpox, or polio, or even the measles - which are actually making a comeback, thanks to the "No vaccine" crowd.
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Tarheel

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 03:42:47 PM »
That is a miniscule minority - and an allergic reaction is better than an outbreak of smallpox, or polio, or even the measles - which are actually making a comeback, thanks to the "No vaccine" crowd.

...and the "illegal immigrant" crowd!
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Kaos

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 03:57:12 PM »
That is a miniscule minority - and an allergic reaction is better than an outbreak of smallpox, or polio, or even the measles - which are actually making a comeback, thanks to the "No vaccine" crowd.

I got a friend who took her kids to the doctor for a Z-Pack every time they got a sniffle.  She can't figure out now why they get raging sinus infections and stay sick but antibiotics don't work any more. 
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Thrilla

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 04:50:46 PM »
At the risk of being slayed by the many who frequent this forum, I must say that I disagree with the viewpoints on eating organic and recycling.  It most likely is due the kool-aid I've been drinking since being immersed in an uber-liberal area of Atlanta, but my thoughts, nonetheless, are this:

Organic Food:  no, you don't have to buy EVERYTHING organic.  But I do see the sense in buying many soft skinned fruits and vegetables organically, if possible.  This type of produce seems to have more pesticides leached into it's skin due to the soft nature of it's outer covering.  A few examples here would be peaches, tomatoes, strawberries, cucumbers, bananas, etc.  I also buy milk organically.  A cow raised on hormones and antibiotics will, without a doubt, transfer some of these byproducts into its milk. 

Now, the question that rages on here is:  am I affected by these pesticides/hormones/antibiotics?  Many middle aged/senior citizen folk would argue that they are fine now and never ate organically, so what's the difference?  But the truth remains that pesticides/hormones/antibiotics have only been around post WWII, making it hard to identify AND quantify the effect that these substances have had on people.  There are over 400 different pesticides used in controlling pests these days...and I'm guessing that repeated exposure over a long period of time to these pesticides is going to fuck some of us up in one way or the other.

So, I doubt that we will ever, as an agricultural country, go 100% organic, so I don't think we have to worry about food quantity decreasing as the article mentions.  It makes sense (to me at least) to not roll the dice EVERY TIME on foods that could possible alter the chemical composition of my body and cause problems for me down the road.


Recycling: To me, it just makes sense to reuse materials instead of relying on the energy needed to produce new materials.  I'd like to see more empirical data that compares the energy spent on making new materials vs. the energy spent on recycling used materials.  Common sense tells me that America's population is growing at an exponential rate, and to preserve our style of life for future generations, we must not waste today.  I do it now for the kids more than for myself, but that's just me.  Waste not, want not, and all that shit.  Take energy saved from recycling (if indeed there is energy saved) and put it towards renewable, local energy sources that can possible stimulate our economy.  But this is a whole other argument, no?

Shit, I've typed too much.  I'm gonna go take a huge bong rip now and hug a tree.  In the meantime, I look forward to this diatribe being ripped to shreds.



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Tiger Wench

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 12:28:21 AM »
I recycle and reuse, but only to the point where it stops making sense.  Rinsing out ketchup packets from Sonic so I can recycle them is ridiculous.   

I read one blog written by this UBER-hippie chick in (duh) california, who actually posted this week that she worries because she has to shower each day, that she tried to go every other day, but she just could not stand not being clean.  She was in major angst, feeling SO GUILTY for using water to WASH HER NASTY HIPPIE BODY!  Oh, she tries to make a difference by NOT WASHING HER CLOTHES UNTIL THEY ARE DIRTY... good grief!!  Turning your undies inside out more than once is not worth the ick factor versus the water spent to wash them... The entertainment value of her stuff is priceless.  I have to totally restrain myself from making crass comments.  She, her husband, two kids and two cats live in (kid you not) an 800 sqft house in So Cal - and she doesn't want to bathe??????????? Eeeek.

 
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Tiger Wench

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 12:31:37 AM »
As for hormones and pesticides?  The obvious answer is genetic engineering. Cotton that resists the boll weevil.  Corn that resists drought.  The big food comglomerates would LOVE to do away with artificial enhancements - they cost more in overhead. 

But the same people screaming about pesticides also scream about genetic engineering.  "IT'S PEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!!"

Yet they believe in the theory of evolution... what is evolution but genetic engineering???????

Idiots.
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Ogre

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 12:42:39 AM »
Organic Food:  no, you don't have to buy EVERYTHING organic.  But I do see the sense in buying many soft skinned fruits and vegetables organically, if possible.  This type of produce seems to have more pesticides leached into it's skin due to the soft nature of it's outer covering.  A few examples here would be peaches, tomatoes, strawberries, cucumbers, bananas, etc.  I also buy milk organically.  A cow raised on hormones and antibiotics will, without a doubt, transfer some of these byproducts into its milk. 

Now, the question that rages on here is:  am I affected by these pesticides/hormones/antibiotics?  Many middle aged/senior citizen folk would argue that they are fine now and never ate organically, so what's the difference?  But the truth remains that pesticides/hormones/antibiotics have only been around post WWII, making it hard to identify AND quantify the effect that these substances have had on people.  There are over 400 different pesticides used in controlling pests these days...and I'm guessing that repeated exposure over a long period of time to these pesticides is going to fuck some of us up in one way or the other.

So, I doubt that we will ever, as an agricultural country, go 100% organic, so I don't think we have to worry about food quantity decreasing as the article mentions.  It makes sense (to me at least) to not roll the dice EVERY TIME on foods that could possible alter the chemical composition of my body and cause problems for me down the road.



Dr. James Brown and 'earseworms' love you.

I don't do shit for the environment.  That probably makes me a bad person, but fuck it.  It will be my kids and grandkids problem, and I'll be laughing from beyond the grave.  I don't recycle, and as a matter of fact, I openly admit that I litter from time to time.  I'm not above throwing a water bottle out of my car.  The way I see it, I'm giving some prisoner a chance to get out of his cell and pick up my trash, giving him hope of getting out and being a productive member of society again.
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GarMan

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2009, 08:41:21 AM »
At the risk of being slayed by the many who frequent this forum, I must say that I disagree with the viewpoints on eating organic and recycling.  It most likely is due the kool-aid I've been drinking since being immersed in an uber-liberal area of Atlanta, but ...

Isn't it time to change your Manpon...

... my thoughts, nonetheless, are this:

Organic Food:  no, you don't have to buy EVERYTHING organic.  But I do see the sense in buying many soft skinned fruits and vegetables organically, if possible.  This type of produce seems to have more pesticides leached into it's skin due to the soft nature of it's outer covering.  I love cock.  A few examples here would be peaches, tomatoes, strawberries, cucumbers, bananas, etc.  And, I love bananas with cocks.  I also buy milk organically.  A cow raised on hormones and antibiotics will, without a doubt, transfer some of these byproducts into its milk and semen (yummy). 

Now, the question that rages, and I do rage asth well asth flame, on here is:  am I affected by these pesticides/hormones/antibiotics and massive quantities of semen?  Many middle aged/senior citizen folk would argue that they are fine now and never ate organically, so what's the difference?  But the truth remains that pesticides/hormones/antibiotics have only been around post WWII, making it hard to identify AND quantify the effect that these substances have had on people.  But, I still love cock.  There are over 400 different pesticides used in controlling pests these days...and I'm guessing that repeated exposure over a long period of time to these pesticides is going to fuck some of us up in one way or the other. 

So, I doubt that we will ever, as an agricultural country, go 100% organic, so I don't think we have to worry about food quantity decreasing as the article mentions.  I love cock.  It makes sense (to me at least) to not roll the dice EVERY TIME on foods that could possible alter the chemical composition of my body and cause problems for me down the road.

So, I think the fact that "Organic Food" is available as a choice is fine.  If you want to pay more for the crap mentioned above just because it's "organic", go for it.  Those mean old fertilizers and pesticides were created for a reason.  The concerns you reference have yet to be proven, and rejecting modern methods of agricultural production is akin to rejecting the assembly line, internal combustion engines, modern healthcare, and over-the-counter drugs.  There are risks and rewards with everything.  Maybe, you’ll be 1% healthier than the rest of us, but that’s not enough to convince me or any other intelligent person to spend 150-500% more for the organic options.  Personally, I think you’re funding an industry of morons and alarmists who are just another wacko fringe group of the global warming alarmist crowd. 

Recycling: To me, it just makes sense to reuse materials instead of relying on the energy needed to produce new materials.  I'd like to see more empirical data that compares the energy spent on making new materials vs. the energy spent on recycling used materials.  I dream of cock.  Common sense tells me that America's population is growing at an exponential rate, and to preserve our style of life for future generations, we must not waste today.  (MMmmmm...  Semen)  I do it now for the kids more than for myself, but that's just me.  It's for the children.  Waste not, want not, and all that shit.  Take energy saved from recycling (if indeed there is energy saved) and put it towards renewable, local energy sources that can possible stimulate our economy.  And, cocks...  But this is a whole other argument, no?

To me, recycling would only make sense as long as it was less costly than producing new materials.  The last that I heard, paper recycling is the only thing that's more efficient than producing new paper products, but even that has limitations as recycled paper requires additional processing to produce the higher quality paper products.  Most of the other recycling options are essentially a scam.  Stripping old electronics is far more expensive than the products salvaged from those items, whether it be gold, copper, lead or other materials.  In a number of cases, glass and plastic is more expensive to reprocess than producing new.  Granted, there are some successful examples of recycled glass and plastics out there, but they are few and far between when compared to all of the glass and plastics in use today. 

While the intentions of many in this area may be good, I'm convinced that this is just another bullshit industry.  People are encouraged to pay more for trash service that collects recycled products.  People are encouraged to pay more for products that are produced from recycled materials.  People are just paying more to support another wacko fringe of the global whining debate, and I refuse to participate until I see some real benefit or savings. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

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"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

JohnDeere

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2009, 09:54:45 AM »
I recycle. Everyweek, I put my blue recycling bin full of beer cans and plastic orange juice jugs on the street curb.

If give me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that my recycling efforts keep some 'slow' kids employeed down at the local recycling center.

I work with some of those 'organic eating' nerds. They come in bragging about the 'deals' they got at the local 'organic' grocery store and about losing weight, feeling better, and shit. They sure don't hesitate grabbing three or four Krispy Kreme doughnuts on Friday mornings that band parent coworker brings in. They just can't comprehend that benefits of spending $300 a week on some overpriced groceries can be negated in 15 minutes a week by stuffing their mouth with doughnuts.



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Tarheel

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 11:11:43 AM »
I recycle and reuse, but only to the point where it stops making sense.  Rinsing out ketchup packets from Sonic so I can recycle them is ridiculous.   

I read one blog written by this UBER-hippie chick in (duh) california, who actually posted this week that she worries because she has to shower each day, that she tried to go every other day, but she just could not stand not being clean.  She was in major angst, feeling SO GUILTY for using water to WASH HER NASTY HIPPIE BODY!  Oh, she tries to make a difference by NOT WASHING HER CLOTHES UNTIL THEY ARE DIRTY... good grief!!  Turning your undies inside out more than once is not worth the ick factor versus the water spent to wash them... The entertainment value of her stuff is priceless.  I have to totally restrain myself from making crass comments.  She, her husband, two kids and two cats live in (kid you not) an 800 sqft house in So Cal - and she doesn't want to bathe??????????? Eeeek.

 

 :puke:
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Tarheel

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2009, 11:13:57 AM »
Dr. James Brown and 'earseworms' love you.

I don't do shit for the environment.  That probably makes me a bad person, but fuck it.  It will be my kids and grandkids problem, and I'll be laughing from beyond the grave.  I don't recycle, and as a matter of fact, I openly admit that I litter from time to time.  I'm not above throwing a water bottle out of my car.  The way I see it, I'm giving some prisoner a chance to get out of his cell and pick up my trash, giving him hope of getting out and being a productive member of society again.

You'll be 'Soylent Green' wafers for your kids and grand kids.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Thrilla

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2009, 01:32:09 PM »
Isn't it time to brush my teeth?  My breath smells like feces...

So, I think the fact that "Organic Food" is available as a choice is fine.  If you want to pay more for the crap mentioned above just because it's "organic", go for it.  Look at me, I pay to engage in scat activities, because I love the taste of shit. Those mean old fertilizers and pesticides were created for a reason.  The concerns you reference have yet to be proven, and rejecting modern methods of agricultural production is akin to rejecting the assembly line, internal combustion engines, modern healthcare, and over-the-counter drugs.  There are risks and rewards with everything.  Maybe, you’ll be 1% healthier than the rest of us, but that’s not enough to convince me or any other intelligent person to spend 150-500% more for the organic options or for me to stop tossing people's salads.  Personally, I think you’re funding an industry of morons and alarmists who are just another wacko fringe group of the global warming alarmist crowd. 


But see, that's the argument.  You think that folks will be fine eating non-organically, and I think that there is less of a risk of being affected by chemical compounds by choosing to eat organically at a periodic clip.  Approximately 30-40% of my diet is organic, so I don't "reject modern methods of agricultural production" and in this way I can continue to fund "normal" agriculture AND organic practices.  I choose, based on current scientific data, to stay away from the highest risk foods that have been proven to, under normal circumstances, contain the most chemicals.  Science has proven (google "pesticides linked to cancer" and there's plenty of non-biased scientific data out there) that the more you expose yourself to these dangerous toxins, the greater risk you run.  Combine these risks with air pollutants, UV exposure, etc....and we see that some of us just don't have the genetic makeup to resist...and boom motherfucker, you get sick, get cancer, and die.  I'm just not going to roll the dice, that's all.

To me, recycling would only make sense as long as it was less costly than producing new materials.  And by "new materials", I mean something to store feces in to keep it just as fresh-tasting as it normally does straight from the asshole.  The last that I heard, paper recycling is the only thing that's more efficient than producing new paper products, but even that has limitations as recycled paper requires additional processing to produce the higher quality paper products.  Most of the other recycling options are essentially a scam.  Stripping old electronics is far more expensive than the products salvaged from those items, whether it be gold, copper, lead or other materials.  In a number of cases, glass and plastic is more expensive to reprocess than producing new.  Granted, there are some successful examples of recycled glass and plastics out there, but they are few and far between when compared to all of the glass and plastics in use today. 

While the intentions of many in this area may be good, I'm convinced that this is just another bullshit industry.  Yummmm, did I just say bullshit?  People are encouraged to pay more for trash service that collects recycled products.  People are encouraged to pay more for products that are produced from recycled materials.  People are just paying more to support another wacko fringe of the global whining debate, and I refuse to participate until I see some real benefit or savings.  I'd much rather participate in the next 2 girls 1 cup video.

I can agree with this viewpoint moreso than your first.  I would like to see the recycling industry take a strong look at their practices, so that it can be more efficient like the paper and glass/plastic example you mentioned above.  If it costs less to recycle than producing new material, it's totally worth it.  I will choose to be blinded by the "propaganda", however, and think to myself that I'm doing something better for the future.  The load I take to the curb every Wednesday to recycle is consistently three times as big as the trash pick up load, at any rate. 
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CCTAU

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 03:01:56 PM »
That is a miniscule minority - and an allergic reaction is better than an outbreak of smallpox, or polio, or even the measles - which are actually making a comeback, thanks to the "No vaccine" crowd.

It's all good till its your kid. I know this family and they have other children that did not have a problem. They now wish they had been part of the "do not vaccinate me with that new shit" crowd.

http://www.davisgoestochina.com/Donations.html

Good folks. The good part is that there is some hope.

But I do not fault any parent that does not want the current vaccinations. There should be a choice.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Tiger Wench

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »
My heart breaks for that family, but I still disagree.  Sure, it is easy in hindsight to say that they wish they had not had him vaccinated, but their other three children got the same shots and are fine.  What happened to him is tragic, but he had an allergy.  Who's to say that he would not have reacted to the vaccines in separate doses?  How is this different from a child who gets leukemia or has a bad fall?  It cannot be predicted.  What would be worse would be to have skipped the vaccines and had him or any of the other three come down with a disease like smallpox or polio - diseases that are guaranteed killers, and killers in a slow, horrible, totally preventable way.  I know I would feel worse watching one of my kids die from something I could have prevented.  I KNOW smallpox and measles and meningitis kill - the allergic reaction he had was a total unknown.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Saniflush

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 06:59:57 PM »


But see, that's the argument.  You think that folks will be fine eating non-organically, and I think that there is less of a risk of being affected by chemical compounds by choosing to eat organically at a periodic clip.  Approximately 30-40% of my diet is organic, so I don't "reject modern methods of agricultural production" and in this way I can continue to fund "normal" agriculture AND organic practices.  I choose, based on current scientific data, to stay away from the highest risk foods that have been proven to, under normal circumstances, contain the most chemicals.  Science has proven (google "pesticides linked to cancer" and there's plenty of non-biased scientific data out there) that the more you expose yourself to these dangerous toxins, the greater risk you run.  Combine these risks with air pollutants, UV exposure, etc....and we see that some of us just don't have the genetic makeup to resist...and boom motherfucker, you get sick, get cancer, and die.  I'm just not going to roll the dice, that's all.

I can agree with this viewpoint moreso than your first.  I would like to see the recycling industry take a strong look at their practices, so that it can be more efficient like the paper and glass/plastic example you mentioned above.  If it costs less to recycle than producing new material, it's totally worth it.  I will choose to be blinded by the "propaganda", however, and think to myself that I'm doing something better for the future.  The load I take to the curb every Wednesday to recycle is consistently three times as big as the trash pick up load, at any rate. 


We got to get you out of DicHater.  You have been living around the "other" crowd too long.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Thrilla

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 07:48:35 PM »

We got to get you out of DicHater.  You have been living around the "other" crowd too long.

I agree.  I've been eating way too much pussy lately.
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Tarheel

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 10:40:42 PM »

We got to get you out of DicHater.  You have been living around the "other" crowd too long.

He's obviously been living inside the perimeter way too long.

Too much exposure to  :fag:  has turned him into a  :homo:
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Saniflush

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Re: 5 Ways People Are Trying To Save The World - That Don't Work
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2009, 07:39:55 AM »
I agree.  I've been eating way too much pussy lately.

Now we just know you are lying now.  Your wife just calved so we know you aren't getting it there and nobody else in Dic-hater would be caught dead with a man.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."