QB's From the State of Texas

[Kaos]

One would be hard pressed to say that these QB's could not start in the SEC

1. Colt McCoy, Texas (Tuscola Jim Ned)

  2. Matthew Stafford, Georgia (Highland Park)

    4. Brian Johnson, Utah (Baytown Lee)

  5. Jevan Snead, Ole Miss (Stephenville)

  6. Chase Holbrook, New Mexico State (Hurst L.D. Bell)

  7. Chase Daniel, Missouri (Southlake Carroll)

  10. Graham Harrell, Texas Tech (Ennis)

12. Casey Dick, Arkansas (Allen)

14. Jarrett Lee, LSU (Brenham)

16. Chase Clement, Rice (San Antonio Alamo Heights)

We saw that Jarrett Lee couldn't hack it already.  So scratch that one.  We've seen Casey Dick be both good and bad.  Arky is always looking for something else at QB, so scratch that one.  Besides, Arkansas recruiting some in East Texas makes geographic sense anyway.  

I watched Harrell at the Senior Bowl.  I don't think he would make it at a good SEC program, no I don't.

You list all those people and with the exception of Auburn, Tennessee and probably MSU, I think the quarterbacks in the SEC were just as good or better than most of that list.   Outside McCoy and Stafford (who never really impressed me that much anyway) there's nothing really outstanding there.  

You guys can't have it both ways.  The argument is ALWAYS that the Big 12 and the Big 10 cannot match up with superior SEC size, skill and speed.  We've seen it time and time again.  Year after year.  So which is it? You want them to be slow or you want them to be equal? Can't have it both way's sonny, cause iff'n they're equal they won't be slow. And iff'n they're slow, they're not gonna be as good...

Make up your minds.  Mine's made up.  

[Kaos]

Jevan Snead also went to Florida, and it was after some kid named Tebow showed up that he transferred for a second time.  I'm sure you just forgot about that though.   

I guess you forgot what the term "went" means. 

Snead committed to Florida, but never went there.  Changed his commit to Texas after a recruiting visit there. 

I guess you "forgot" Enrique Davis went to Auburn before some kid showed up and he transferred.   

[AUChizad]

Kaos,
Where was your outrage when Tuberville started establishing a pipeline in Florida?

Now you're revising history by saying that Florida is a "traditional" pipeline for Auburn.

And furthermore, why is it so important that this holy tr'dition be upheld anyway? Sounds like bammer talk to me.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

We saw that Jarrett Lee couldn't hack it already.  So scratch that one.  We've seen Casey Dick be both good and bad.  Arky is always looking for something else at QB, so scratch that one.  Besides, Arkansas recruiting some in East Texas makes geographic sense anyway.  

I watched Harrell at the Senior Bowl.  I don't think he would make it at a good SEC program, no I don't.

You list all those people and with the exception of Auburn, Tennessee and probably MSU, I think the quarterbacks in the SEC were just as good or better than most of that list.   Outside McCoy and Stafford (who never really impressed me that much anyway) there's nothing really outstanding there.  

You guys can't have it both ways.  The argument is ALWAYS that the Big 12 and the Big 10 cannot match up with superior SEC size, skill and speed.  We've seen it time and time again.  Year after year.  So which is it? You want them to be slow or you want them to be equal? Can't have it both way's sonny, cause iff'n they're equal they won't be slow. And iff'n they're slow, they're not gonna be as good...

Make up your minds.  Mine's made up.  

So you pick out a redshirt freshman that killed us at Auburn this year even if he was inconsistent the rest while splitting time with two other QB's, Graham Harrell, and base his effectiveness on his play in one game at the Senior Bowl despite his career, and then round it out with a questionable Casey Dick to make your point?

Weak.  I'm not sure why this debate is even still going....  

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I guess you forgot what the term "went" means. 

Snead committed to Florida, but never went there.  Changed his commit to Texas after a recruiting visit there. 

I guess you "forgot" Enrique Davis went to Auburn before some kid showed up and he transferred.   

If Florida was an SEC School, then I guess he was good enough for them too was the point.   I hear ya though...  good comeback.

[wesfau2]

We saw that Jarrett Lee couldn't hack it already.  

That's premature, in my opinion.  The kid got half a chance as a RsFr.  He's still got some developing to do.

So scratch that one.  We've seen Casey Dick be both good and bad.  Arky is always looking for something else at QB, so scratch that one.  Besides, Arkansas recruiting some in East Texas makes geographic sense anyway.  

So, the program's proclivity to QB swap indicates a failing on the part of C. Dick?  C'mon.  You're better than that. 

I watched Harrell at the Senior Bowl.  I don't think he would make it at a good SEC program, no I don't.

Who would want a 70+% Heisman candidate at QB in the SEC?  Your QB evaluation skills remain intact.

You guys can't have it both ways.  The argument is ALWAYS that the Big 12 and the Big 10 cannot match up with superior SEC size, skill and speed.  We've seen it time and time again.  Year after year.  So which is it? You want them to be slow or you want them to be equal? Can't have it both way's sonny, cause iff'n they're equal they won't be slow. And iff'n they're slow, they're not gonna be as good...

You're mixing your arguments: Big 12 is no defense; Big 10 is slow. 

Make up your minds.  Mine's made up.  

You and George W. have that in common at least.

[Snaggletiger]

Kevin, one question.  Are you skeptical of the talent we may land out of Texas being able to excel in the SEC or are you apprehensive of this staff foresaking the "Traditional" recruting grounds for greener pastures?

If they do in fact give Alabama, Miss., Georgia etc. the back of their hand in an effort to establish themselves in Texas, I'm with ya' 100%.  It's an absolute given that we have to keep the relationships with local programs in tact and pull the corp of our kids from around here.  But, if your skepticism is over the talent we get from out West, I don't see it.

[Kaos]

Kaos,
Where was your outrage when Tuberville started establishing a pipeline in Florida?

Now you're revising history by saying that Florida is a "traditional" pipeline for Auburn.

And furthermore, why is it so important that this holy tr'dition be upheld anyway? Sounds like bammer talk to me.

Florida has been an Auburn recruiting ground since 1980.  29 years is long enough for me.  Tuberville didn't "start a pipeline" to Florida.  Not by ANY stretch of the imagination.  

Dye did that.  Bowden followed.  Go back and check the rosters from the 80s and 90s.  AU had plenty of kids from Florida then.  

Dye established the Dillard High pathway, not Tuberville.

It's not about upholding tradition, it's about doing what you (should) do best.  

[Kaos]

So you pick out a redshirt freshman that killed us at Auburn this year even if he was inconsistent the rest while splitting time with two other QB's, Graham Harrell, and base his effectiveness on his play in one game at the Senior Bowl despite his career, and then round it out with a questionable Casey Dick to make your point?

Weak.  I'm not sure why this debate is even still going....  

Because you rally round flags that don't exist, primarily. 

I already said McCoy was good. I already said Snead had earned a spot at Ole Miss. 

But beyond that your amazing list really wasn't that fucking amazing. You listed a bunch of guys who were playing QB at a bunch of SHIT schools for the most part.  I don't think any of them would have warranted wasting time chasing jackrabbits in Texas. 

Harrell was a product of the crazy ass system Leach runs (as several QBs have been before him) and looked like a wilting flower in the Sr. Bowl against quality competition. He impressed nobody there.  The experts ranked him as the "biggest (fucking) disappointment of the week." 

No, I don't think Harrell could play in the SEC.  Period.   You're the one who posted the golly gee amazing Texas list as if it proved something.  Did you research how many QBs in the NFL were from Texas?  From Florida? From Georgia? From Alabama?  How many from those states were playing college footballl?  I didn't think so.

So go ahead and plant your victory flag, Chop.  It's your forte! You showed mean old Kaos what was what.

 
 

[Kaos]

If Florida was an SEC School, then I guess he was good enough for them too was the point.   I hear ya though...  good comeback.

No, llama, it wasn't a matter of you being misquoted or scoring your point.  You said EXPLICITLY that Snead went to Florida and then transferred.  Then you added your typical snide ass comment to show off. 

Except -- sense a trend? -- you had it all fucked up and it wasn't the way you remembered it.   

So you ended up making yourself look like a tool. 

 :thumbsup:

[chinook]

can you guys continue...let's say between 8:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m. (pst)..(?)...i'm not getting any work done today.

thank you in advance.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I already said McCoy was good. I already said Snead had earned a spot at Ole Miss.

So no problems there.  

But beyond that your amazing list really wasn't that fucking amazing. You listed a bunch of guys who were playing QB at a bunch of SHIT schools for the most part.  I don't think any of them would have warranted wasting time chasing jackrabbits in Texas.

This is purely your opinion, not fact.  I also happen to believe it's    JMO...

Harrell was a product of the crazy ass system Leach runs (as several QBs have been before him) and looked like a wilting flower in the Sr. Bowl against quality competition. He impressed nobody there.  The experts ranked him as the "biggest (fucking) disappointment of the week."

Fine, but there's no denying he ran his system well, and had 70% completions with as many attemts that were thrown in that "crazy" system.  I don't give a shit what you think, that's fucking good.    

No, I don't think Harrell could play in the SEC.  Period.

I think you've made this clear.  It's your opinion, but again doesn't make it fact.  We simply disagree. 

You're the one who posted the golly gee amazing Texas list as if it proved something.  Did you research how many QBs in the NFL were from Texas?  From Florida? From Georgia? From Alabama?  How many from those states were playing college footballl?

 

Auburn isn't an NFL team.  So I'm not sure what your point is there.  However, while calling it what you want, the list DOES show a lot of quarterbacks that Qb'd winning teams THIS YEAR in Division 1 football, and others that made pretty good SEC squads. 

So go ahead and plant your victory flag, Chop.  It's your forte! You showed mean old Kaos what was what.

Spare me the pot stirring.  It's just making YOU look stupid now.
 

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

No, llama, it wasn't a matter of you being misquoted or scoring your point.  You said EXPLICITLY that Snead went to Florida and then transferred.  Then you added your typical snide ass comment to show off. 

Except -- sense a trend? -- you had it all fucked up and it wasn't the way you remembered it.   

So you ended up making yourself look like a tool. 

 :thumbsup:

Fine.  You're right.  I said it completely incorrectly. 

However, the fact remains that he was allowed to commit to Florida shows that he was worthy of a scholarship at an SEC school.  It was in rebutle to your assertion that most of the kids on that list were not SEC talent level QB's.  Which I think was silly.  JMO....

Keep the pot stirring going though.  I know it's killing you that I'm not going the personal name calling route.

[Kaos]

Kevin, one question.  Are you skeptical of the talent we may land out of Texas being able to excel in the SEC or are you apprehensive of this staff foresaking the "Traditional" recruting grounds for greener pastures?

If they do in fact give Alabama, Miss., Georgia etc. the back of their hand in an effort to establish themselves in Texas, I'm with ya' 100%.  It's an absolute given that we have to keep the relationships with local programs in tact and pull the corp of our kids from around here.  But, if your skepticism is over the talent we get from out West, I don't see it.

The issue I have is with the general philosophy of turning recruiting attention toward Texas.  That was what I got out of whatever the original thread was that opened this can of worms.  I've said a hundred times -- and I think only one dromedary has at this point failed to comprehend -- that I have no issue at all with finding kids in other states who have an interest and pursuing them as hard as legally allowed.  Ben Tate for instance.  

I'd love to be a "national recruiter."  But not even the best recruiters go panning outside their base.  Pete Carroll identifies a handful of kids in other states and throws every trick in the book at them.  No problem there. But his base is still the southwest.  That's where he knows he can almost always get the BEST kids from.

So what are my problems with Auburn skulking around in Texas, even now?  

1) Most of the guys we have on staff now know that area better.  Other than Chiz, there's not a soul there who could find Andalusia, Muscle Shoals, Brantley or Gadsden without a GPS.  The time to be learning where all those places are is NOW.  Maybe you don't pick up any of the big names still on the board in the state, but you're damn sure not going to get them if you're fucking around in Gonzales.  And you're not going to see their teammates who will make up the NEXT class.  

2) Which brings me to the number of highly-rated recruits still on the board in the state. When we're dicking around with kids from Texas, what are the guys here being told?  Maybe Rollison invented sliced bread, I don't know. Was Texas or OU recruiting him? But if you ask me if I'd rather have him or Dre or Tana... well....

3) Chizik's past history is another concern.  When he went to ISU, the first thing he did was start recruiting Texas.  He was going to get the Cyclones in the business of national recruiting. Pretty fucking long haul from Texas to Iowa.  Didn't work there.  And spare me the "that's ISU, not Auburn."  I know ISU isn't Auburn.  But didn't he learn anything?  Why come to AU and start up the same bullshit?  

Skepticism is not that there is no talent in Texas.  I'm sure there is.  But it will be much (much) more difficult to draw that talent.  In Auburn's geographic recruiting base you've got kids who grow up dreaming of playing in the SEC.  There, it's the Big 12.  Unless it's a weird situation (like Stafford, who grew up a Dawg and was going there no matter what or Snead who couldn't pull ahead of McCoy at UT) I don't think Auburn (or Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia or any other SEC team) can fight off Texas, OU, A&M, TCU, etc. for the true playmakers.  

[Kaos]

So no problems there.  

This is purely your opinion, not fact.  I also happen to believe it's    JMO...

Fine, but there's no denying he ran his system well, and had 70% completions with as many attemts that were thrown in that "crazy" system.  I don't give a shit what you think, that's fucking good.    

I think you've made this clear.  It's your opinion, but again doesn't make it fact.  We simply disagree. 
 

Auburn isn't an NFL team.  So I'm not sure what your point is there.  However, while calling it what you want, the list DOES show a lot of quarterbacks that Qb'd winning teams THIS YEAR in Division 1 football, and others that made pretty good SEC squads. 

Spare me the pot stirring.  It's just making YOU look stupid now.
 

No, Chop, it isn't just MY opinion on Harrell.  It's the opinion of professionals who are paid to make judgements on the relative talent of players competing for positions in the NFL draft.  Harrell just doesn't have it.  He's not "fucking good."  I'm grateful you're not evaluating talent for a living. 

And the point is you listed a bunch of quarterbacks from the state of Texas.  So fucking what?  Unless you have a relative comparison of how many quarterbacks on D1 rosters were from the states of Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi and Alabama, then you just have a meaningless list.  For all you know there are far more from those states who are on college rosters or who have gone on to NFL success.  Maybe that invalidates your entire argument?  But why bother finding out. 

[wesfau2]

Skepticism is not that there is no talent in Texas.  I'm sure there is.  But it will be much (much) more difficult to draw that talent.  In Auburn's geographic recruiting base you've got kids who grow up dreaming of playing in the SEC.  There, it's the Big 12.  Unless it's a weird situation (like Stafford, who grew up a Dawg and was going there no matter what or Snead who couldn't pull ahead of McCoy at UT) I don't think Auburn (or Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia or any other SEC team) can fight off Texas, OU, A&M, TCU, etc. for the true playmakers.  

The "true playmakers" want to go wherever they can play on the biggest stage, with the most coverage and for the biggest prizes.

The last 3 BCS champs have been SEC teams. 

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

Again, one simple statement makes your arguement moot for most to me at least.  NOBODY here says that we agree with recruiting TEXAS exclusively.  Nobody has.  Nobody is.  Nobody will.   We're still getting recruits from all over the southeast, not JUST Texas.  Your argument would make more sense if we had shown we were going to abandon our base recruiting areas.  We just haven't.  Period.

  

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

No, Chop, it isn't just MY opinion on Harrell.  It's the opinion of professionals who are paid to make judgements on the relative talent of players competing for positions in the NFL draft.  Harrell just doesn't have it.  He's not "fucking good."  I'm grateful you're not evaluating talent for a living.

It isn't your talent for a living either.  Thank God.   Also, while you might have heard this and that that particular weekend, I've heard other "professionals" talk about HOW GOOD HE IS.  Get over yourself, seriously.  

And the point is you listed a bunch of quarterbacks from the state of Texas.  So fucking what?  Unless you have a relative comparison of how many quarterbacks on D1 rosters were from the states of Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi and Alabama, then you just have a meaningless list.  For all you know there are far more from those states who are on college rosters or who have gone on to NFL success.  Maybe that invalidates your entire argument?  But why bother finding out. 

Dude, if you can't see the talent on that list and simply gather that there's talent in Texas and good talent at that, then continue pissing on your own shoes.  So far you're the ONLY one here that hasn't "gotten" what that list is about.  Good lord.

[Kaos]

Fine.  You're right.  I said it completely incorrectly. 

However, the fact remains that he was allowed to commit to Florida shows that he was worthy of a scholarship at an SEC school.  It was in rebutle to your assertion that most of the kids on that list were not SEC talent level QB's.  Which I think was silly.  JMO....

Keep the pot stirring going though.  I know it's killing you that I'm not going the personal name calling route.

You're so wrong about this.  

You see, Chop, despite your perception I don't care about YOU.  I mean no offense in that, it's just that I don't concern myself with how you're going to react or what you're doing. I only care about the discussion and how its crafted.  

Everything, Chop, is NOT about YOU no matter how many dramatic affirmations you post, how many new versions appear or how many mea culpas you issue.  

I confess that I enjoy mocking the drama. It provides me with brief interludes of humor that break up the day's monotony.  But if you'll note, I never mock you, I only mock the drama.  I'm grateful that you provide it.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

The "true playmakers" want to go wherever they can play on the biggest stage, with the most coverage and for the biggest prizes.

The last 3 BCS champs have been SEC teams. 

You would think this is easy to understand... but....