Hate to Say It

[GH2001]

What missteps are we talking about, specifically?

Jesus man....you been under a rock? I could have swore you were in on some of those threads and comments the last week.

1. MSU debacle
2. SC debacle
3. Bobo - its arguable here who this falls on.
4. Nix
5. Eason - yes, Clemson was his school but he wanted out
6. Mason - horribly handled, was gonna go home to NO JOB before Okie State handed him a lifeline.
7. Portal whiffs
8. NSD whiffs
9. Austin Davis
10. The mass exodus defections (20, 18 of them scholly players)
11. Junior Day - lack of connection and organization
12. Coach Corn
13. Coaching Conventions - lack of connection
14. Relationship Building with HS Coaches - lack of connection
15. Jr Summer Camps - lack of connection
16. Subpar Recruiting Visits - lack of connection , seeing a trend here??
17. And just general lack of endearment to fans and the media and the admin..... Think Bruce Pearl here. no one expects Harsin to be Pearl...but more along those lines would be the right path.

All I'm saying Wes, is at some point its on him. Not fans, not other coaches, not "problem" players, and not boosters - but HIM. Hes the common thread.

ALL THAT SAID......this is NOT the time to fire a coach. Unless you have Bob Stoops or Dave Arranda or Urban Meyer ALREADY lined up, this is not a good idea. AT ALL.

Harsin himself said there is no plan B. So I am not sure where we go from here. I'd like to see the dude adjust and correct this stuff. Some of it is pretty bad. I don't know if he will get the chance to now. After 14 months, its hard to tell if he will/would change things up by A-Day or Two a Days. If by then he still hasn't and we have another mediocre season - I'd say that's a solid 2 season, 2 year sample size of who the guy is. But I think right now, that sample size is still too small to fire him.

[wesfau2]

Jesus man....you been under a rock? I could have swore you were in on some of those threads and comments the last week.

1. MSU debacle - both coordinators responsible are gone.
2. SC debacle - Ditto.
3. Bobo - its arguable here who this falls on.  What debacle? He was a placeholder at best to bridge the network gap for a west coast guy.
4. Nix - Again, what debacle?  He didn't waste 3 years of the kid's development and he damned well better NOT let a prima donna player dictate terms with his deddy.
5. Eason - yes, Clemson was his school but he wanted out
6. Mason - horribly handled, was gonna go home to NO JOB before Okie State handed him a lifeline.  Yeah, not sure what went on here...without more info, it's irresponsible to call it Harsin's problem.
7. Portal whiffs We bagged some of the biggest fish in the portal.
8. NSD whiffs  I think NSD is a zombie that no one has had the heart to skull bash.  Early signing day was the first nail...and the transportalizer took a big old infected bite out of its neck.  I'll declare recruiting a problem if we don't fill up those last 8-9 spots prior to summer camp.
9. Austin Davis  We've had weird NFL hire/non-hires before.  See Rich Bisaccia (interim Raiders coach*).  You roll the dice hiring a guy with no colege ties in the middle of the NFL playoffs.  Lots of things are still up in the air in the league at that time.
10. The mass exodus defections (20, 18 of them scholly players) Errbody is getting battered by this development while guys try to find a spot on the field.

Fuck's sake.  Everybody take a deep breath or ten and cool the fuck out.

The rest of this is just supposition and hearsay.

11. Junior Day - lack of connection and organization
12. Coach Corn
13. Coaching Conventions - lack of connection
14. Relationship Building with HS Coaches - lack of connection
15. Jr Summer Camps - lack of connection
16. Subpar Recruiting Visits - lack of connection , seeing a trend here??
17. And just general lack of endearment to fans and the media and the admin..... Think Bruce Pearl here. no one expects Harsin to be Pearl...but more along those lines would be the right path.

All I'm saying Wes, is at some point its on him. Not fans, not other coaches, not "problem" players, and not boosters - but HIM. Hes the common thread.

That's letting the power brokers off the hook here pretty easily.

ALL THAT SAID......this is NOT the time to fire a coach. Unless you have Bob Stoops or Dave Arranda or Urban Meyer ALREADY lined up, this is not a good idea. AT ALL.
nk right now, that sample size is still too small to fire him.

Here we agree at least.

*BTW...did y'all see that Paul Rhoads is coaching in Gulf Shores now???

[GH2001]

the quote function owning Wes hard.

Ill ask again, and maybe y'all answer it this time - what did any fan or PTB do to cause ANY OF those missteps under Harsin's watch? I know they are an easy boogeyman and I have my pure disdain for Yella too (as some off the board know) but the head man has to be held accountable especially coming in talking a big game. And he's gotta change his way of doing things.....period. The optics are starting to look really bad for him nationally. And in big boy football and recruiting, perception is mostly reality.

[wesfau2]

the quote function owning Wes hard.

The struggle is real.

[WiregrassTiger]

One thing about the quote function here is it will point out a stupid motherfucker very quickly.

[GH2001]

No pun intended Wes, but was it hearsay when Terry exhibited some of these same flaws as far as recruiting, camps, relationships, official visits, etc? It was pretty well known with him as a fatal flaw and its becoming pretty well known with Harsin. It can't persist. This is a small state and the HS Coaching community talks. You find out really quickly what kind of reputation a college coach has as a recruiter. And before anyone shouts from the rooftops "top 20 class" - Take Carnell, Trovon and Zack away and see where it lands. 3 Homegrown Auburn guys plus Eason landed a top 20 class by themselves, not the Boise gang.

Lee Hunter, who transferred from Auburn to UCF earlier this offseason, posted on Instagram on Friday that "Coach Harsin has the true mindset for a winner but has a terrible mindset as a person." He also posted "the reason I chose to leave auburn is because we got treated like we wasn't good enough and like dogs."

Say what yall want about the kid. Call him soft or a beta or whatever makes you feel big and bad, but any kid that says things like should raise a bit of an alarm bell. There is a fine line between a hard ass like Saban or Boom vs a tyrant like Bobby Knight.

[GH2001]

One thing about the quote function here is it will point out a stupid motherfucker very quickly.

I will disagree with Wes at times but ill never accuse him of being stupid. Hes not. Perhaps its why hes a fun debate.

[wesfau2]

No pun intended Wes, but was it hearsay when Terry exhibited some of these same flaws as far as recruiting, camps, relationships, official visits, etc? It was pretty well known with him as a fatal flaw and its becoming pretty well known with Harsin. It can't persist. This is a small state and the HS Coaching community talks. You find out really quickly what kind of reputation a college coach has as a recruiter. And before anyone shouts from the rooftops "top 20 class" - Take Carnell, Trovon and Zack away and see where it lands. 3 Homegrown Auburn guys plus Eason landed a top 20 class by themselves, not the Boise gang.

Say what yall want about the kid. Call him soft or a beta or whatever makes you feel big and bad, but any kid that says things like should raise a bit of an alarm bell. There is a fine line between a hard ass like Saban or Boom vs a tyrant like Bobby Knight.

Who's more credible?  Team Captain, Chandler Wooten, or transfer bench-rider Lee Hunter (from his Auburntigers.com profile: 2021: Did not see game action)?

https://twitter.com/ItsMeWootang/status/1489644138316374019

[GH2001]

Who's more credible?  Team Captain, Chandler Wooten, or transfer bench-rider Lee Hunter (from his Auburntigers.com profile: 2021: Did not see game action)?

https://twitter.com/ItsMeWootang/status/1489644138316374019

Different things or approaches affect players in different ways..

I don't think its about one player or another being more credible. If that culture is in your locker room at all or if any player feels this way, it needs to be addressed. Perhaps there are misunderstandings on intent or relatability concerns but thats gotta be hashed out either way.

[WiregrassTiger]

I will disagree with Wes at times but ill never accuse him of being stupid. Hes not. Perhaps its why hes a fun debate.

maybe not but I think we can all agree he’s a motherfucker.

[Buzz Killington]

maybe not but I think we can all agree he’s a motherfucker.

But only if she hot

[Kaos]

No pun intended Wes, but was it hearsay when Terry exhibited some of these same flaws as far as recruiting, camps, relationships, official visits, etc? It was pretty well known with him as a fatal flaw and its becoming pretty well known with Harsin. It can't persist. This is a small state and the HS Coaching community talks. You find out really quickly what kind of reputation a college coach has as a recruiter. And before anyone shouts from the rooftops "top 20 class" - Take Carnell, Trovon and Zack away and see where it lands. 3 Homegrown Auburn guys plus Eason landed a top 20 class by themselves, not the Boise gang.

Say what yall want about the kid. Call him soft or a beta or whatever makes you feel big and bad, but any kid that says things like should raise a bit of an alarm bell. There is a fine line between a hard ass like Saban or Boom vs a tyrant like Bobby Knight.

Worth repeating because I've seen this movie before. 

I personally know a kid who was a 5* with interest from everybody in the world.  Wanted to go to AU. His dad wanted an in-home from little terry Bowden.  I talked directly to the AU AD and the Bowden staff telling them specifically that.  Every other coach had been to their house.  Fulmer, DuBose, Willingham, Holtz... all came to the guy's house. All Bowden had to do was meet with them.  Fucker could not be bothered. Send Rodney Allison. To a practice.

Kid went on to set defensive records at UA that still stand. Started for four years.  Played in the NFL. 

I don't know that Herwig is of the same distant mold, but I've seen the rampant speculation that he's out of touch with the situation and the players.  Auburn "just being Auburn" isn't enough for some of these kids even if the WANT to come there.

Maybe none of this is true.  Maybe it's just that Harsin is a hard ass and our roster was candy fuck soft after greasy Gus got through being their buddy.  Maybe that's the source of complaint.  I don't know.  I just know he's not endearing himself to anybody now. 

[wesfau2]

Maybe none of this is true.  Maybe it's just that Harsin is a hard ass and our roster was candy fuck soft after greasy Gus got through being their buddy.  Maybe that's the source of complaint.

This seems to be likely.

I don't know.  I just know he's not endearing himself to anybody now.

I still don't have any qualms about the dude.

[WiregrassTiger]

I just hope that it doesn’t end up being that Harper actually is a Scientologist.

[GH2001]

This seems to be likely.

I still don't have any qualms about the dude.

Again, I don't want to see the dude fired Wes. I want him to take a hard look in the mirror, see the error of some of his ways, take the constructive criticism, realize that what hes done thus far is not gonna work here long term and make some adjustments.

K is right - He's got to endear himself to the whole team, the whole fanbase, the new President, etc. You cannot have 50% of the team hating you. And 50% liking you. If you look around on social media right now, different factions of players are at each other at the moment...it sounds just like the fans. Hes gotta unify that going forward. He's got to sell himself to the whole damn team and fanbase and get them all to buy in. Thats the biggest thing hes failed on thus far. Its really that simple.

Smoke Monday, Zakoby, Kobe Hudson were all contributors and have expressed similar thoughts to Hunter's but Smoke said it best (below)  - if he can get the people stuff down, the sky is the limit for the dude. Its obvious he knows how to coach.

My hope here is that Burgess, Gogue and Greene have a come to Jesus meeting with Harsin and try to iron this stuff out and perhaps work on a plan to get Hars more personable and relatable. It's not really up for debate at this point. Its gotta happen.

Kobe Hudson: "When Harsin learns how to relate to people, he'll be the next Nick Saban."

Smoke Monday: "He's a great coach, it's just the people stuff."

[wesfau2]

Again, I don't want to see the dude fired Wes. I want him to take a hard look in the mirror, see the error of some of his ways, take the constructive criticism, realize that what hes done thus far is not gonna work here long term and make some adjustments.

K is right - He's got to endear himself to the whole team, the whole fanbase, the new President, etc. You cannot have 50% of the team hating you. And 50% liking you. If you look around on social media right now, different factions of players are at each other at the moment...it sounds just like the fans. Hes gotta unify that going forward. He's got to sell himself to the whole damn team and fanbase and get them all to buy in. Thats the biggest thing hes failed on thus far. Its really that simple.

Smoke Monday, Zakoby, Kobe Hudson were all contributors and have expressed similar thoughts to Hunter's but Smoke said it best (below)  - if he can get the people stuff down, the sky is the limit for the dude. Its obvious he knows how to coach.

My hope here is that Burgess, Gogue and Greene have a come to Jesus meeting with Harsin and try to iron this stuff out and perhaps work on a plan to get Hars more personable and relatable. It's not really up for debate at this point. Its gotta happen.

Kobe Hudson: "When Harsin learns how to relate to people, he'll be the next Nick Saban."

Smoke Monday: "He's a great coach, it's just the people stuff."

For each of the malcontents no longer on the roster but spouting off, I've seen current players vouching for Harsin.

It's a dramatic culture change.  There will be growing pains.  You don't tell a 45 year old man who has extensive experience and success in his chosen field to radically alter his personality.  It won't happen.  What he is has worked for him thus far and what Auburn has been has not worked...so, embrace the change. 

[The Six]

I just hope that it doesn’t end up being that Harper actually is a Scientologist.

This is what real enquiring minds want to know.

[GH2001]

For each of the malcontents no longer on the roster but spouting off, I've seen current players vouching for Harsin.

It's a dramatic culture change.  There will be growing pains.  You don't tell a 45 year old man who has extensive experience and success in his chosen field to radically alter his personality.  It won't happen.  What he is has worked for him thus far and what Auburn has been has not worked...so, embrace the change.

a coaching journey is an evolution. Hes gotta change some. Hes in a vastly different paradigm full of piranhas than he was in the friendly big sky country of Idaho. What 100% worked up there is not going to work here. Now, it doesn't require a total 180 or re-engineering of his methods, but merely an adjustment. Soft skill honing is something that goes on in every job and is a constant almost your entire career, no matter the profession.

Just like when you become the boss, you have to do the same. He will not survive without the soft skills, politicking(to a degree) and warming up to players, fans, hs coaches and recruits. Thats just a hard truth.

[WiregrassTiger]

Winning cures all. Or damn near all.

[Kaos]

Back to Saban for a minute.

When he first got there, he didn't endear himself to anybody either. He pissed off a LOT of people with his bullshit, honestly.  I know for a fact there was a group of former players and boosters who were plotting to have him removed middle of the first season. 

The ONLY reasons that didn't get traction are 1) Saban's force of personality was so strong that it scared some of the administrators and 2) the school was so desperate to regain some hint of relevancy after Tuberville fingering them year after year that they had to give it a shot. 

The guy told Bama quasi-legends to get the fuck out of the practice facility and weight room and don't come back. This ain't Gold's Gym. He told boosters to do their booster shit and shut the fuck up. He'd tell them when he needed their help or opinion.  He had an AD - one of the dumbest people I've ever had the misfortune of talking to, Mal Moore - who had fucked up the coaching search so badly that they almost had the Rich and Rita show -- who was going to ride or die on this hill and he backed Saban every step of the way even as people wanted him tossed out on his grizzled ass, too. Saban told the media to kiss his fucking ass and for some reason they fell all over themselves to suck up to that abuse. 

While the "doing shit my way" Saban comparisons have a small amount of merit, Horton doesn't have the AD backing and media fealty that he did.  Herbert also won't have the media support. Our "beat writers" are hacks who enjoy stirring up controversy and strife.  For some reason we always seem to draw Woodward and Bernstein wannabes who look for angles from which to lob grenades. 

Hennypenny also doesn't have the 100% loyalty of the fans.  There was no adoring throng to greet him at the airport like a savior. 

He can act like a Saban, be no nonsense like a Saban but the hill he has to climb is much steeper.  He has to win like one too and that doesn't look likely at the moment.