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Is there any hope?

Kaos

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Is there any hope?
« on: October 20, 2008, 01:37:39 AM »
Does McCain truly have any hope at all?  Is there any possibility that the droves of muddle-headed pre-pubescents and non-working Americans who support Obama will stay home as they usually do on election day?  Any chance at all that McCain has one more miracle left in his tank?  Can SOMEBODY please find those pictures of Obama naked with a goat?  I think we're going to need them.

I am so sick of seeing that empty-suit charlatan with his vapid mantra of "change".   But I am getting discouraged.  McCain just doesn't seem to know what to do.  He's kept Pain basically muzzled although it's clear from SNL numbers alone that people love her.  Why won't he turn her loose?  Nobody gives a shit in a bucket about the goofy ass stuff Katie Couric and Charles Nelson Reilly --- errrr Gibbon ---  errr Gibson -- was trying to trap her on.  She's dynamic, she's energetic, she's refreshing. People would vote FOR HER, McCain be damned. People would vote for HER over Obama, but we're keeping her in a freaking shed somewhere.

If there's no hope, i want to know now so I can go ahead and stash whatever money I can before that agent of the devil becomes president.  I've watched him closely.  His eyes never speak the same words as his mouth.  I think Obama may be the most dangerous human being on the planet.  And Americans are so stupid that they follow him around sniffing his Kool farts. 
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AUChizad

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 10:02:56 AM »
Remember when you guys asked me why I've gone from staunch Republican to Libertarian centrist? See that article I posted on Colin Powell. I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I may not vote for Obama, but I think our country has gone so far to the right, that now's not a bad time to reel us in a bit. I refer to the South Park episode A Little Bit Country. Aside from some economic policies I disagree with (my biggest conflict being his health care plan), I don't think he'd be all that catastrophic for our nation at this point in history. I know many of you could give a fuck less about the world outside our bubble, but our international image has been drastically tarnished. You can deny it all you want, but that would be like denying the Holocaust.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 10:13:26 AM by AUChizad »
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Saniflush

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 10:15:08 AM »
See I am tired of us giving a fuck what the world thinks about us!  This world would not exist in its current form if not in large part to us.  I am not going to think globally.  I want us to take care of business whatever that business is and say to hell with what the UN or any puppet of the UN thinks.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 11:32:38 AM by Saniflush »
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

orangeandblue

Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 11:29:46 AM »
The polls are roughly 5 percentage points off, the majority of the past elections were decided in the last few days. Anything is possible. I would argue that Obama winning could literally set this country back 20 years (think Supreme Court) and kill the economy (when will the 40% who dont pay taxes ever be willing to give up their new government check?)
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AUChizad

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 11:50:56 AM »
I will add this as well. The demonizing of George Bush (literally in some cases) from the left disgusted me as well as many other independent voters to the point where they voted for Bush almost out of spite.

The tables have turned and now it's the right demonizing the guy running as the democrat. Agent of the devil? Come on. I know you're king of hyperbole, but I can't be sure that you don't actually believe that. That along with with the billions of other false claims that he's a Muslim and a terrorist, as well countless racist remarks make me think maybe Republicans deserve to sit in timeout for 4 years while they rethink their strategy and reassess what they truly stand for.

When he takes office, will you disagree with his policies but respect him as commander -in-chief and leader of our country as you demanded from the Democrats these past 8 years or will you be a hypocrite?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 11:53:35 AM by AUChizad »
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Kaos

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 12:10:06 PM »
I will add this as well. The demonizing of George Bush (literally in some cases) from the left disgusted me as well as many other independent voters to the point where they voted for Bush almost out of spite.

The tables have turned and now it's the right demonizing the guy running as the democrat. Agent of the devil? Come on. I know you're king of hyperbole, but I can't be sure that you don't actually believe that. That along with with the billions of other false claims that he's a Muslim and a terrorist, as well countless racist remarks make me think maybe Republicans deserve to sit in timeout for 4 years while they rethink their strategy and reassess what they truly stand for.

Obama is a liar. Perhaps the most complete liar I have ever personally witnessed.  His mouth says one thing, his eyes say something completely different.  I don't know what to make of him.   Is he an agent of some nefarious organization? Seems far-fetched, but look at his history. 

1) Where did he come from? It's unusual for someone from his background to end up in the Ivy leagues and no one has bothered to explain how he got there and who paid for it. Don't hand me "student loans" either. 

2) Where has he ever worked?  On what day did this man hold an actual job?  How, then, is he qualified to speak for the American worker when he has never performed, even for a single day, the most basic function of American society -- going to work.  How can he champion the cornerstone of the American economy -- capitalism -- when his entire life has been at odds with the concept? 

3) How does he explain his alliances? How can he go to "church" led by a rabble-rousing, race-baiting, anti-American bigot for 20 years and then claim that he was not affected and/or never heard any of that rhetoric?  If it was so distasteful, why did he soak it up for 20 years?  Do you not believe that the diatribes spewed by his former "pastor" and "confidant" are what's truly in the heart of this charlatan?  How can you so easily dismiss that?  If McCain had been a member of the Klan for 20 years, he couldn't just wipe it away with the magic "I never really listened to the speeches" excuse. He would be crucified. So should Obama.

Obama SHOULD be scrutinzed, if not demonized, because these very basic questions are not being answered. And the IDIOT sheep in this country get herded along, bleating "chaaaaange, chaaaaaange, chaaaaaange."   Change what?  Change how?

Obama may be an unwitting agent of evil, but I do personally believe that the "change" he brings to this country will hasten its demise and its fall from global supremacy.  I don't WANT to be more like Europe.  I've been there.  It sucks.  Obama is one of the fools who've never worked, never scraped, never had to put themselves second so they could make their business dreams work long-term, the fools who believe that you can legislate equal outcomes. That's BULLSHIT.  The best this country should strive to do is provide equal opportunity. .  The two terms are not synonymous and I don't think Obama or those who support him understand that distinction. FUCK Obama. If I want my wealth "spread around" I'll spread it on my own. I don't need his never-had-a-job ass deciding how much to take.  So yeah, I do think he'll ruin the country. And by my own personal definition anybody who destroys America (either wittingly or unwittingly) is inherently un-American and therefore evil. 
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Tarheel

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 04:03:35 PM »
Does McCain truly have any hope at all? 
...
 

I know that you are being rhetorical in asking that question but I will answer it anyway.  Not at this point.  National polls are interesting for showing a national trend but you must really look at the state-by-state polls to find out where this election is going.

The state-by-state polls are clearly showing that the electoral battle is in traditional red states; McCain has gained NO ground in any blue state.  He's way behind (outside the margin of error) in Colorado, Florida, Virginia, and Iowa; he's falling behind in North Carolina, Ohio, Missouri, Nevada, and North Dakota.  The latest polling from mid-week show The Obama with 313 Electoral Votes and McCain with 171; there are 54 toss-up votes (NC, OH, MO, NV, ND); 270 Votes needed to win.  (And, of course, you can take that with a proverbial grain of salt because of the source.)

Here's the link:  http://www.rove.com/election

As to national polls The Obama has a consistent lead but it is falling within the margin of error.  The RealClearPolitics average has "That ONE" at plus 5.3 percent against McCain.

Here's that link:  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html


Things can always happen to shake up the race but I think McCain is too far behind to catch up; but, then again, folks thought with the highest degree of confidence that Dewey would defeat Harry Truman in 1948!  So maybe there is hope for change..
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Kaos

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 04:10:23 PM »
*sigh*

McCain has run an incredibly stupid campaign. 

I hate the Rudy was not nominated.  He would have bulldozed this charlatan.  But he ran a stupid campaign as well.
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Tarheel

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 04:15:20 PM »
*sigh*

McCain has run an incredibly stupid campaign. 

I hate the Rudy was not nominated.  He would have bulldozed this charlatan.  But he ran a stupid campaign as well.

Yep.

I didn't even get into the money situation either.  McCain has something like 84 million total; The Obama raised 153 million last month alone.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Godfather

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 04:30:03 PM »
I still think it will be closer than everyone thinks. 
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Tarheel

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2008, 04:40:41 PM »
Remember when you guys asked me why I've gone from staunch Republican to Libertarian centrist? See that article I posted on Colin Powell. I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
...

You mean this quote from Powell (among others):
Quote
...
"I have some concerns about the direction that the party has taken in recent years," Powell told Tom Brokaw on "Meet the Press" on NBC as he made his endorsement of Obama. "It has moved more to the right than I would like to see it." In recent weeks, Powell added, "the approach of the Republican Party and Mr. McCain has become narrower and narrower."
...

I don't know what "Republican Party" he's talking about but it's not the one that's been in charge of the White House and in the Congress for the past 8 years.  That party has been all for open-borders, bigger government, and spending like there's no tomorrow!  "Too far to the right" eh?  That sounds like a smoke-screen on Colin Powell's part.  He made his decision for one reason.

The Republican Party does need to find it's compass again...the one that points to real conservatism...I don't think that McCain is the man to show the party the way but, fortunately, there's some young, talented, conservatives waiting in the wings who can...like Sarah Palin once she's been seasoned and Bobby Jindal for the same reason.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:09:43 PM by Tarheel »
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

kirkAU

Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2008, 04:44:46 PM »
i agree, i think it'll be tight in the end, but McCain will probably be defeated.  It really comes down to this:
Voters are 1 of two people, Have's and Have Nots
Poor = Have nots
Rich = Haves
Middle Class = split, depending on their point of view

Obama said, "spread the wealth"  which will gain him 50% of the country's vote, i.e. The Have Nots whose mission statement in life is, "I don't have enough Money, promotions, education, etc, therefore the Gov't should help me out"

The Have's like merit because most busted ass and made something of themself (and i don't mean just being rich)  they will vote for McCain

The middle class split will be enough to push Barry Hussien into the White House.


Unfortunately, Joe the Plumber will have more impact on the election than he thinks.  Poor "victim" american voters are all about spreading the wealth and will vote for the candidate that talks about it.
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Tarheel

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2008, 05:08:35 PM »
Remember when you guys asked me why I've gone from staunch Republican to Libertarian centrist? See that article I posted on Colin Powell. I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I may not vote for Obama, but I think our country has gone so far to the right, that now's not a bad time to reel us in a bit. I refer to the South Park episode A Little Bit Country. Aside from some economic policies I disagree with (my biggest conflict being his health care plan), I don't think he'd be all that catastrophic for our nation at this point in history. I know many of you could give a fuck less about the world outside our bubble, but our international image has been drastically tarnished. You can deny it all you want, but that would be like denying the Holocaust.

I really don't give a rat's ass what the world thinks about us and I don't live in a damn "bubble" as you call it.  The world ought to be thanking us every day for taking the stand that we have taken against fascism, naziism, stalinism, communism, monarchism, terrorism, and all the other "isms" that would subjugate freedom, democratic ideals, and republican government. 

The "world" turns to one country when there's trouble...the United States of America.  The damn UN is about as worthless as a bucket of warm piss (to quote from Truman I think).  If it weren't for the U.S. and NATO not a damn thing would get done.  I think we've hacked-off our NATO allies to a certain extent and those are the folk that we need to lead by example...the rest of the world can fuck-off.

When I think of all of the blood that was shed for the freedoms that we enjoy and what The Obama and his socialist friends could do to this country it makes me sick to my stomach (as does your rationale of using "South Park" as much as I enjoy that show too).  You can be assured that these folk WILL attack our first and second amendment rights as soon as The Obama is sworn in.  More infringements on personal liberty will follow as will "catastrophic" taxes with innocuous excuses like "it's for the children" or "it's for the common good" or "it's to share the wealth"...makes me want to fucking puke!

You may well regret the words "I don't think he'd be all that catastrophic for our nation at this point in history" after the socialists take over our government.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:13:31 PM by Tarheel »
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

AUChizad

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2008, 07:05:59 PM »
I don't know what "Republican Party" he's talking about but it's not the one that's been in charge of the White House and in the Congress for the past 8 years.  That party has been all for open-borders, bigger government, and spending like there's no tomorrow!  "Too far to the right" eh?  That sounds like a smoke-screen on Colin Powell's part.  He made his decision for one reason.
I don't think he meant in terms of big or small government, spending, etc. I think he meant on becoming morality Nazis that try to blur the separation of church & state, bigots (or was that racist or prejudiced, since there's a difference in all three), and kick ass first ask questions later war hawks.

As for your assessment of Bush and his "true" conservatism, I completely agree.

Quote
The Republican Party does need to find it's compass again...the one that points to real conservatism...I don't think that McCain is the man to show the party the way but, fortunately, there's some young, talented, conservatives waiting in the wings who can...like Sarah Palin once she's been seasoned and Bobby Jindal for the same reason.
Again, agree. Although, I'm not wild about Palin's foreign policy knowledge, but that's another issue...

I really don't give a rat's ass what the world thinks about us and I don't live in a damn "bubble" as you call it.  The world ought to be thanking us every day for taking the stand that we have taken against fascism, naziism, stalinism, communism, monarchism, terrorism, and all the other "isms" that would subjugate freedom, democratic ideals, and republican government. 

This is bama fan mentality (although sadly that analogy is starting to lose its relevance). Ask anyone not of this country and they will tell you that America has lost all of the respect we once held just in these last seven years. That's great if you think our country can survive autonomously and the rest of the world can fuck right off. What industry are we leading the world in right now, besides maybe entertainment? Are you saying we don't rely on foreign trade? I bet few Romans could give a fuck about the rest of the world before their civilization fell.

You may well regret the words "I don't think he'd be all that catastrophic for our nation at this point in history" after the socialists take over our government.
Kind of like an economic bail out? Whose idea was that? Obama's? But that goes back to the one point we do agree on, that Bush is no true conservative. Although, McCain was in favor of the bailout too.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 07:09:31 PM by AUChizad »
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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2008, 07:08:43 PM »
There is hope, but it's sleeping alone in a cave somewhere.  It'll wake up in 2012.  

This is America.  Unless you believe that the Apocalypse is near, then you have to believe that history will continue to unfold.  If Obama comes in and starts screwing around with the foundation of our country, a LARGE majority of people aren't going to like it.  Kaos is right; voters are simple sheep who only want to recognize a shephard's voice.  However, this country has shown throughout its history that when shit hits the fan, those sheep are silenced and the wolves reestablish order.  

I think America might be in need of a wake up call.  Obama reliving the Carter years might just be what we need.  All of this MTV-liberal-socialism-equal earning-lack of morals shit we've been living for the past few years is on thin ice. 
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AUChizad

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2008, 07:15:21 PM »
There is hope, but it's sleeping alone in a cave somewhere.  It'll wake up in 2012.  

This is America.  Unless you believe that the Apocalypse is near, then you have to believe that history will continue to unfold.  If Obama comes in and starts screwing around with the foundation of our country, a LARGE majority of people aren't going to like it.  Kaos is right; voters are simple sheep who only want to recognize a shephard's voice.  However, this country has shown throughout its history that when shit hits the fan, those sheep are silenced and the wolves reestablish order.  

I think America might be in need of a wake up call.  Obama reliving the Carter years might just be what we need.  All of this MTV-liberal-socialism-equal earning-lack of morals shit we've been living for the past few years is on thin ice. 
I agree with this as well, although I don't see the moral crisis everyone's bitching about.

I see this as an opportunity for idealistic hippies to put up or shut up. When they're in charge, they can no longer blame every little thing that goes wrong on the Republicans.
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War Eagle!!!

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 10:18:47 AM »
I see this as an opportunity for idealistic hippies to put up or shut up. When they're in charge, they can no longer blame every little thing that goes wrong on the Republicans.

I am betting neither. They won't do anything to "fix" the current situation we are in. And secondly, they will ALWAYS find an excuse and blame someone else for the reason things are wrong.

The Dems don't actually want to fix things. They want to simply shift power to themselves to make people more dependant on their party to keep them in power. The more people that actually depend on you, the more power you have...
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Tarheel

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Re: Is there any hope?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 06:46:36 PM »
I don't think he meant in terms of big or small government, spending, etc. I think he meant on becoming morality Nazis that try to blur the separation of church & state, bigots (or was that racist or prejudiced, since there's a difference in all three), and kick ass first ask questions later war hawks.

Perhaps he should have clarified that that is what he was talking about rather than use the vacuous, double-speak of The Obama.  His decision was about race that's all; to attempt to rationalize it as anything else is futile.

As for your assessment of Bush and his "true" conservatism, I completely agree.
Again, agree. Although, I'm not wild about Palin's foreign policy knowledge, but that's another issue...

As much as I like Sarah Palin she does need to gain some more experience (as does The Obama).

This is bama fan mentality (although sadly that analogy is starting to lose its relevance). Ask anyone not of this country and they will tell you that America has lost all of the respect we once held just in these last seven years. That's great if you think our country can survive autonomously and the rest of the world can fuck right off. What industry are we leading the world in right now, besides maybe entertainment? Are you saying we don't rely on foreign trade? I bet few Romans could give a fuck about the rest of the world before their civilization fell.

Call it what you will but I call it patriotism.  To use your word; "sadly" patriotism has become too old-fashioned and small-minded these days.  Globalists tend to look down their noses on patriotism and national pride by using ad hominem attacks as they sip their chablis or zima, discuss how boorish America is, and congratulate themselves for being so wise, eco-friendly, and multi-cultural.  The view from the Crystal Towers of Academia must be breathtaking.

This is exactly why I think we need to focus less on what the world thinks of us and more on making ourselves a greater nation.  The United States, like an individual, cannot be defined by what others think.  We can't use the world as a guide...or use a "global test" as John Kerry called it four years ago.  The United States of America is unique.  But I suppose in your enlightened worldview we need to use Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea as examples of respected nations and global trading partners.  Or, perhaps, the cowardice of some of our Euro-trash 'friends' who don't have the stomach to fight Islamo-fascism might be a better example for us to follow?

Quite frankly I resent your arrogant attitude that I should "ask anyone not of this country and they'll tell you that we've lost respect". 

First of all I am not the backwater hick that you apparently take me for although I have been known to be "a bitter gun-owner who clings to his religion".  You sound so much like The Obama who told us how dull we Americans sound when we travel to Europe and "all we can say is 'merci beaucoup'".  Wow...maybe someday I'll be smart like The Obama too once I open my mind and stop watching Fox News and listening to talk radio.  Please...don't patronize me, my friend.

Secondly, this country does not need the respect of any nation that is not unequivocally prepared to be our ally this day and age; we don't have the time or resources to play geo-political footsie.  In fact, right now, with the shadow of Islamo-nazi terrorism still looming worldwide the world should probably fear being our enemy more than anything else...but you probably think that's more "bama fan mentality".

And third, for the record I support Auburn on game-day.

Kind of like an economic bail out? Whose idea was that? Obama's? But that goes back to the one point we do agree on, that Bush is no true conservative. Although, McCain was in favor of the bailout too.

I'm not convinced that ANY of the corporate bailouts were a good thing either and we will probably regret those decisions down the Road to Socialism too.

Sounds like you need to vote for The Obama, my friend.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson