Time to ban the NFL

[The Prowler]

Yeah those little shitbags have a right to kneel. I have a right to say fudge them and the NFL. And fudge you if you support the kneelers!


Sorry for inappropriate use of the word "kneeler"!

I support the usage of peaceful protest. If you don't, then fuck you.

Better than your Fake News

Info Wars/Alex Jones is the King of "fake news"...sadly Trump listens to him and Faux News.

[chinook]

I support the usage of peaceful protest. If you don't, then fuck you.
Info Wars/Alex Jones is the King of "fake news"...sadly Trump listens to him and Faux News.

 Trump listens to them all...sorts through the curds.  Gives awards and all that jazz.   

[The Prowler]

Side note: The XFL is coming back in 2020...boom.

[Buzz Killington]

I bet those guys stand for the anthem.

[Token]

I bet those guys stand for the anthem.

I bet their paychecks depend on it

[Snaggletiger]

I bet those guys stand for the anthem.

I bet Vince makes them or...YOU'RE FIIIIIIRED!!!

[wesfau2]

I bet Vince makes them or...YOU'RE FIIIIIIRED!!!

If that's outlined as a job requirement, I gots no problem with it.

It's the ad hoc suppression of expression of their rights that is galling.

[Kaos]

If that's outlined as a job requirement, I gots no problem with it.

It's the ad hoc suppression of expression of their rights that is galling.

Jesus. 

You just don’t get it do you?

[GH2001]

If that's outlined as a job requirement, I gots no problem with it.

It's the ad hoc suppression of expression of their rights that is galling.

You ever worked for a company with a "corporate hand book"?

[wesfau2]

You ever worked for a company with a "corporate hand book"?

Yep.  I know what I can and can't do.  Or rather, what I can do and expect consequences for.

[GH2001]

Yep.  I know what I can and can't do.  Or rather, what I can do and expect consequences for.

See, goodell makes things up or better yet, ignores or enforces what he wants as it's convenient. If I got up at my company's annual shareholder meeting and did what these clowns are doing and saying, I wouldn't have a job for long. No one is suppresing anyone's rights as prowler is implying. That is my point.

[wesfau2]

See, goodell makes things up or better yet, ignores or enforces what he wants as it's convenient. If I got up at my company's annual shareholder meeting and did what these clowns are doing and saying, I wouldn't have a job for long. No one is suppresing anyone's rights as prowler is implying. That is my point.

I'm not sure we're arguing different points.

IMO: if the NFL didn't want this specific behavior, then it should have been prohibited in the governing documents (NFLPA docs, league docs, or maybe both).  It clearly was not addressed, so when the players started kneeling the league had a choice: find a provision in the various codes of conduct with which to beat them over the head/paycheck or try to win the war of public opinion.

The league/Goodell refused to point to a particular violation of league policy, enforce it and take any perceived "hit" for being a heavy-handed employer that stifles free expression.  (they all do)

Instead, they let the issue twist in the wind and it gained traction.  Now, they are fucked.  If they start enforcing some vague catch-all provision in the governing docs (eg - "Player agrees to refrain from activities that would tend to devalue the League...") they are weasly, lawyered up fucks that are suppressing free speech.  If they let it go, they are facing fan backlash and the potential rise of the XFL to take their dollars.

The funny part (to me, at least) is that they (team and league) have left the barn door wide fucking open for a lawsuit.  If you're not up on your HOA/COA law, you might not be familiar with the concept of selective enforcement.  Basically, if it can be shown that your policies are enforced in a non-uniform manner, then the argument can be made that they are enforced in a discriminatory manner and can be disregarded...for good.

To bring this all the way back, if the NFL has an explicit policy forbidding kneeling during the anthem AND they have been enforcing it, then they are probably on solid ground. 

But they don't and they haven't.

The NFL isn't going to make this an issue before the courts.

[Snaggletiger]

I honestly don't think so.  First off, there's just not enough players participating in the protest anymore.  I saw one stat that late in the season there were 19 total for that week.  Barely noticeable.  Second, there are obviously general, catch-all policies in place that give the league/Goodell discretion to decide if certain conduct is detrimental to the league as a whole.  In this case, if I were representing the NFL, I would say that we needed a full season to see the real effect the protests have had on our bottom line.  The stats clearly show that your conduct, particularly, your chosen method of protesting an issue 100% unrelated to the NFL, has cost the league $547 million (Just throwing a totally hypothetical and arbitrary figure out there).  Therefore, your conduct can no longer be tolerated under league rules. 

However, I don't even think this will be an issue come 2019.  But I will say that is somewhat contingent on the league taking a new direction in marketing and diverting the public's attention away from the current state of affairs and focusing on other, more exciting aspects of the NFL. 

BTW, the XFL has zero shot.  They're going to have to pull off the marketing campaign of a lifetime.  Plus, put a real product on the field.  We don't watch IIA college football.  We don't watch minor league baseball. We don't watch D-League Basketball.  The USFL, the XFL and countless other attempts at alternatives to the NFL have all failed. Name a player in Arena League.  Do they still have Arena League?  There will be initial excitement.  After that, it will go the way of so many before it.     

[Kaos]

I'm not sure we're arguing different points.

IMO: if the NFL didn't want this specific behavior, then it should have been prohibited in the governing documents (NFLPA docs, league docs, or maybe both).  It clearly was not addressed, so when the players started kneeling the league had a choice: find a provision in the various codes of conduct with which to beat them over the head/paycheck or try to win the war of public opinion.

The league/Goodell refused to point to a particular violation of league policy, enforce it and take any perceived "hit" for being a heavy-handed employer that stifles free expression.  (they all do)

Instead, they let the issue twist in the wind and it gained traction.  Now, they are fucked.  If they start enforcing some vague catch-all provision in the governing docs (eg - "Player agrees to refrain from activities that would tend to devalue the League...") they are weasly, lawyered up fucks that are suppressing free speech.  If they let it go, they are facing fan backlash and the potential rise of the XFL to take their dollars.

The funny part (to me, at least) is that they (team and league) have left the barn door wide fucking open for a lawsuit.  If you're not up on your HOA/COA law, you might not be familiar with the concept of selective enforcement.  Basically, if it can be shown that your policies are enforced in a non-uniform manner, then the argument can be made that they are enforced in a discriminatory manner and can be disregarded...for good.

To bring this all the way back, if the NFL has an explicit policy forbidding kneeling during the anthem AND they have been enforcing it, then they are probably on solid ground. 

But they don't and they haven't.

The NFL isn't going to make this an issue before the courts.

WRONG!

The NFL Gameday Operations Manual reads:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

The league and the commissioner turned pussy when that ignorant piece of racist shit Cumdump Humperfuck started his "protest"

[GH2001]

I'm not sure we're arguing different points.

IMO: if the NFL didn't want this specific behavior, then it should have been prohibited in the governing documents (NFLPA docs, league docs, or maybe both).  It clearly was not addressed, so when the players started kneeling the league had a choice: find a provision in the various codes of conduct with which to beat them over the head/paycheck or try to win the war of public opinion.

The league/Goodell refused to point to a particular violation of league policy, enforce it and take any perceived "hit" for being a heavy-handed employer that stifles free expression.  (they all do)

Instead, they let the issue twist in the wind and it gained traction.  Now, they are fucked.  If they start enforcing some vague catch-all provision in the governing docs (eg - "Player agrees to refrain from activities that would tend to devalue the League...") they are weasly, lawyered up fucks that are suppressing free speech.  If they let it go, they are facing fan backlash and the potential rise of the XFL to take their dollars.

The funny part (to me, at least) is that they (team and league) have left the barn door wide fucking open for a lawsuit.  If you're not up on your HOA/COA law, you might not be familiar with the concept of selective enforcement.  Basically, if it can be shown that your policies are enforced in a non-uniform manner, then the argument can be made that they are enforced in a discriminatory manner and can be disregarded...for good.

To bring this all the way back, if the NFL has an explicit policy forbidding kneeling during the anthem AND they have been enforcing it, then they are probably on solid ground. 

But they don't and they haven't.

The NFL isn't going to make this an issue before the courts.

Fair enough. And prob more the issue with prowler than you.

Even if you look at the Brady fiasco and goodell. Or ray rice. Or anything else where goodell fudged it badly doing things on the fly. It's a pattern. And this protest thing doesn't seem to be any different to me.

[wesfau2]

WRONG!

The NFL Gameday Operations Manual reads:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

Well, that's the revised policy (the league is careful to call it a "policy" rather than a "rule") known only because it was deliberately released in response to this brouhaha.

Here is the "policy" as stated in 2014 (available only as an exhibit in the Brady suspension lawsuit):



Not much change except a threatening list of enumerated punishments and the removal of explicit mention of the League as the enforcing body.

So...they had a policy that was never enforced and only "tweaked" it as a PR move.  But it's still not enforced.

It's as good as having no rule at all.

[chinook]

Isn’t SHOULD the key word?   

[Token]

W

So...they had a policy that was never enforced and only "tweaked" it as a PR move.  But it's still not enforced.

It's as good as having no rule at all.

This.  The NFL fucked it up from the word go because they either believed it didn't matter or they thought the backlash from the BLM community would be a greater threat than the backlash from the patriot community.  They could not have performed a shittier job with the debacle. 

Now they are fucked no matter what.  Their only move is to start trying to pay the shit out of news corporations to not air it.  Don't show it, don't talk about it, don't even think about it for $$$$$$$.

[wesfau2]

Isn’t SHOULD the key word?

Sure...in the sense that nothing in that "policy" matters, except as guidance.  Like the parental guidance that was suggested to my parents before every HBO comedy special I watched in the '80s.