So Much Hate

[AUChizad]

Here it is in a nutshell.  Define "country".  Go ahead.  All these "That ain't country" dissenters, give us the definition of country music so we'll be able to quantify what is and what isn't actual country music so there will be no more debate.

Don't tell us what you think ISN'T country. BTW, that will rule out 99% of the arguments. Tell us all what IS, so we'll be able to distinguish between the contenders and pretenders.  Your definition.....GO!!

Oh, and one song by David Allan Coe doesn't count.  Okay....now go... Give us all the definition of "Country Music".

I'm no country purist.

The conversation started with:

So why do those guys (isbell, Simpson, jinks and a few of the other hacks) obsess over who is and isn't real country? Sturgill Simpson made a total ass of himself at the CMAs.

in reference to three artists that do not at all refer to themselves as country.

I didn't bring up Sturgill or Jinks. But yeah, to me they are much more representative of the purest form of the genre than the poppy bro stuff they play on the radio.

If that's your bag, I don't begrudge you, I just don't like it.

What defines it? To me? Acoustic guitars, a steel guitar, maybe a fiddle and/or banjo. Stripped down and not overproduced. Lyrics and vocals with soul that are closer to blues than hip hop or pop.

Hank Sr. is sort of the godfather of country. The outlaws of the 70s (Willie, Waylon, Merle, Coe, Cash, Kristofferson, etc.) popularized it.

To my ears, guys like Sturgill and Stapleton not only are thematically and aesthetically closer to those guys, but just audibly sound much closer them than guys like Sam Hunt or Cole Swindell. And I personally prefer the former to the latter. If you don't, knock yourself out. Doesn't bother me.

[Snaggletiger]

I'm no country purist.

The conversation started with:in reference to three artists that do not at all refer to themselves as country.

I didn't bring up Sturgill or Jinks. But yeah, to me they are much more representative of the purest form of the genre than the poppy bro stuff they play on the radio.

If that's your bag, I don't begrudge you, I just don't like it.

What defines it? To me? Acoustic guitars, a steel guitar, maybe a fiddle and/or banjo. Stripped down and not overproduced. Lyrics and vocals with soul that are closer to blues than hip hop or pop.

Hank Sr. is sort of the godfather of country. The outlaws of the 70s (Willie, Waylon, Merle, Coe, Cash, Kristofferson, etc.) popularized it.

To my ears, guys like Sturgill and Stapleton not only are thematically and aesthetically closer to those guys, but just audibly sound much closer them than guys like Sam Hunt or Cole Swindell. And I personally prefer the former to the latter. If you don't, knock yourself out. Doesn't bother me.

 

The most reasonable response I've read on a music genre in all the years on the X.

[Saniflush]

 

The most reasonable response I've read on a music genre in all the years on the X.

You put coke in your bourbon, you don't know shit.

[Snaggletiger]

You put coke in your bourbon, you don't know shit.

That's Delicious Coke Product to you, fucko!

[AUTiger1]

Alan jackson was there. Church was there. Paisley was there. If sturgill really believes that statement then he's FOS and his own worst enemy.

I guess where I'm at now with this stuff is - who made them God to decide? They are as much of a deviation from hank or no show jones style as church or aldean. You could say the same with cash. He had some very very different stuff that didn't remotely sound like anything bill Monroe or hank would have recorded. It evolves.

Now I get that Garth, Carrie and Sam Hunt are just plain Ferkin terrible. But I have to disagree with the "that ain't real mommy partree" crowd on church and paisley. Even kenny has written some good stuff here and there. There's a lot of rock influence in the country guys our age - we were all exposed to Springsteen, gnr, etc. So I get it. I just think the "anti establishment" guys have gone too far in the other direction.

It's like how we talk about some in the libertarian circles. They are some of the most dogmatic you'll see. I'm seeing similarities now in the "anti" crowd in country music. Hell, I saw one page bashing Alan jackson. That's pretty hardcore.

I'll give you Jackson, I'll give you half credit on Church, some of his shit is pop country, Paisley, is up in the air to me.  I give that he is one hell of a guitarist, but he puts out too many poppy songs for my liking.   I've listened to Sturgill a lot, interviews and music.  He and Stapleton  have the same producer and consider themselves friends.  I don't think he was directing that at any one artist, but the industry as a whole.  It was the rest of his interview that turned me off.

Maybe the anti-establishment has gone to far.  It doesn't matter though.  It's like the NFL, people are not going to stop listening to the new age poppy, hip-hopish country.  So the others will play their music, and still make their millions and never have to work again. They will still get theirs. 

I'm no country purist.

The conversation started with:in reference to three artists that do not at all refer to themselves as country.

I didn't bring up Sturgill or Jinks. But yeah, to me they are much more representative of the purest form of the genre than the poppy bro stuff they play on the radio.

If that's your bag, I don't begrudge you, I just don't like it.

What defines it? To me? Acoustic guitars, a steel guitar, maybe a fiddle and/or banjo. Stripped down and not overproduced. Lyrics and vocals with soul that are closer to blues than hip hop or pop.

Hank Sr. is sort of the godfather of country. The outlaws of the 70s (Willie, Waylon, Merle, Coe, Cash, Kristofferson, etc.) popularized it.

To my ears, guys like Sturgill and Stapleton not only are thematically and aesthetically closer to those guys, but just audibly sound much closer them than guys like Sam Hunt or Cole Swindell. And I personally prefer the former to the latter. If you don't, knock yourself out. Doesn't bother me.

This is what I have tried to explain to you for eons.  Chizad just said it better than I do.  I don't consider todays country radio, country music.  It's some country with a little steel guitar mixed in and with some rap lyrics.  To me it is hip-hop, pop sound talking about somewhat "country" things.  I don't begrudge anyone for liking it, I just wish they would call it something other than country.  To me, it deserves it's on genre. 

[AUTiger1]

You put coke in your bourbon, you don't know shit.

And then there is this...........

[Snaggletiger]

Every single genre of music evolves.  This is the phase country is going through.  Think about how different polka music is today compared to even 10 years ago.  Hardly recognizable.  But do people still wear funny outfits and dance to it?  Of course we...they do.

And Zamfir's Pan Flute music is no different.  At first, I wasn't a fan of the changes in the arrangements between "The Lonely Shepherd" and "Bilitis".  Thought the guy had sold out.  But he, like most artists, realized that staying stagnant was not an option.  And once I really delved into it and found that his fingering had not changed, it was apparent he had stayed true to himself, and his fans.

Very much like ZZ Top.   

[AUTiger1]

Every single genre of music evolves.  This is the phase country is going through.  Think about how different polka music is today compared to even 10 years ago.  Hardly recognizable.  But do people still wear funny outfits and dance to it?  Of course we...they do.

And Zamfir's Pan Flute music is no different.  At first, I wasn't a fan of the changes in the arrangements between "The Lonely Shepherd" and "Bilitis".  Thought the guy had sold out.  But he, like most artists, realized that staying stagnant was not an option.  And once I really delved into it and found that his fingering had not changed, it was apparent he had stayed true to himself, and his fans.

Very much like ZZ Top.

Again........

You put coke in your bourbon, you don't know shit.

and I also thought we established that that you and GH were going to paint your penises and rub tips this weekend.  I mean, not that there is anything wrong with that, if that is what tickles your fancy.

[Snaggletiger]

Again........

and I also thought we established that that you and GH were going to paint your penises and rub tips this weekend.  I mean, not that there is anything wrong with that, if that is what tickles your fancy.

Look, we are not painting our penises.  Well, GH might.  But I just got that sick Kim Jong Un tat on my apple head so I'm not messing that up.

[GH2001]

Look, we are not painting our penises.  Well, GH might.  But I just got that sick Kim Jong Un tat on my apple head so I'm not messing that up.

He's jut jealous of us. I mean. The game.

[Token]

Growing up my dad loved Hank Jr.  I've heard a lot of his popular stuff but never paid much attention to it.  Really I just never liked the type of person who walked around singing country boy can survive.  I never believed any of those types were actually country so I shunned Hank Jr.

Recently decided to listen to some of his stuff.  His stuff that wasn't country boy can survive.  Damn he's a good artist.  I can see why the country music world had a hard time accepting him.  Hell I hear as much blues and jazz as I do steal guitar. 

But damn I like him. 

[Vladimir]

Growing up my dad loved Hank Jr.  I've heard a lot of his popular stuff but never paid much attention to it.  Really I just never liked the type of person who walked around singing country boy can survive.  I never believed any of those types were actually country so I shunned Hank Jr.

Recently decided to listen to some of his stuff.  His stuff that wasn't country boy can survive.  Damn he's a good artist.  I can see why the country music world had a hard time accepting him.  Hell I hear as much blues and jazz as I do steal guitar. 

But damn I like him.

I’m sure if got know you, Bocephus would hate your guts.

[War Eagle!!!]

Growing up my dad loved Hank Jr.  I've heard a lot of his popular stuff but never paid much attention to it.  Really I just never liked the type of person who walked around singing country boy can survive.  I never believed any of those types were actually country so I shunned Hank Jr.

Recently decided to listen to some of his stuff.  His stuff that wasn't country boy can survive.  Damn he's a good artist.  I can see why the country music world had a hard time accepting him.  Hell I hear as much blues and jazz as I do steal guitar. 

But damn I like him.

Hey man, them ain't high heeled sneakers.

[wesfau2]

HOLY BALLS.

Isbell (and let's not forget the 400 Unit) puts on a fucking show.  They're a tight fucking band and even when Isbell or Sadler steps out for a solo (either can melt your face) they don't get lost in a ten-minute Widespread/Phish jumblemess.

Setlist (in rough order):
Go It Alone
24 Frames
Something More Than Free
Hope the High Road
White Man's World
Codeine
Tupelo
Cumberland Gap
Decoration Day
Stockholm
Molotov
Songs She Sang in the Shower
Flying Over Water
Cover Me Up
Super 8

Encore:
Never Gonna Change
If We Were Vampires

Nice mix of old and new songs, though I would have subbed two others for "High Road" and "White Man's World."  He's a much better songwriter when he's painting the corners and letting the listener fill in the story.  Those two songs find him beating you over the head with obvious lyrics and it's so unlike Isbell that it seems forced and unnatural.  The first encore gave the extra bonus of a call-and-response guitar duel between Isbell and Vaden...it was amazing. 

If you have the chance, do yourself a favor and catch this band live. 

[wesfau2]

Wanted to see if I'm the slow kid in class, late to catch on, or if someone else had stumbled upon this little bit of lyrical sorcery:

The last line of the first and third choruses of "New South Wales" is: God bless the busted boat that brings us back.

Lots of "b" sounds, right? 

HE'S MAKING THE SPUTTERING SOUND OF AN OLD BOAT MOTOR!

I can't think of another instance of this...alliterative onomatopoeia??...in any other song.  Can you?

[GH2001]

Growing up my dad loved Hank Jr.  I've heard a lot of his popular stuff but never paid much attention to it.  Really I just never liked the type of person who walked around singing country boy can survive.  I never believed any of those types were actually country so I shunned Hank Jr.

Recently decided to listen to some of his stuff.  His stuff that wasn't country boy can survive.  Damn he's a good artist.  I can see why the country music world had a hard time accepting him.  Hell I hear as much blues and jazz as I do steal guitar. 

But damn I like him.

Revisiting....

He was considered too pop and rock 35 years ago. “He ain’t his daddy”. “He’s too loud”.

Now hes considered one of the greats. It’s how county music is. It evolves. People adjust. Does it use traditional instruments. And talk about real problems and real people and real things? Yes is country. Lot of different flavors. Sometimes it takes time.

Hank Jr is a perfect example of this. Not every country artist is gonna sound like bill Monroe or hank or even Stapleton. 

[War Eagle!!!]

Revisiting....

He was considered too pop and rock 35 years ago. “He ain’t his daddy”. “He’s too loud”.

Now hes considered one of the greats. It’s how county music is. It evolves. People adjust. Does it use traditional instruments. And talk about real problems and real people and real things? Yes is country. Lot of different flavors. Sometimes it takes time.

Hank Jr is a perfect example of this. Not every country artist is gonna sound like bill Monroe or hank or even Stapleton.

One of my all time favorite songs

[wesfau2]

Way late in posting this, but I caught Isbell and company at the Gogue Performing Arts Center on opening weekend. 

It's a really nice facility...from the outside.  They kept the hoi polloi outside (the amphitheater venue is around the corner from the main entrance), but the sight lines were great and the acoustics/sound top notch.

My only real beef was that they had volunteers working the beer/liquor tents and the lines were loooooooooooooooooong.  Not really a problem once the show started, since I was rooted to my spot, but made the pre-show kind of a pain in the ass.

Obligatory setlist:
Super 8
24 Frames
Hope the High Road
Something More Than Free
Overseas
Live Oak
Alabama Pines
Anxiety
White Man's World
Outfit
Last of My Kind
If We Were Vampires
Stockholm
Flying Over Water
Cover Me Up
????
Maybe It's Time (the Star is Born song)
Never Gonna Change

Outstanding show.  Most of the band took a break for "Last of My Kind" through "Cover Me Up."

[wesfau2]

Got the new Isbell album yesterday.

It's a bit more subdued and introspective-sounding than The Nashville Sound, with no single jumping out at me on the first two listens.

Quick impressions:

"What've I Done to Help" starts so quickly it's a bit jarring.  More of a chant than a classic song structure.
The chorus in "Dreamsicle" is a bit clunky, but the picture painted by the verse lyrics is classic Isbell
"Only Children" sounds like a bit of an ode to Patterson Hood (or some prior songwriting companion)
Really like the guitar work in "Overseas."  He played this one live last time I saw him and it SOARS in concert.
"Running With Our Eyes Closed" features some nice, understated bluesy riffing.
Watch out for the paradoxically subtle and hard left turn in the narrative in "River."
"Be Afraid" is as close to a straight-up rocker that this album has.  Also doubles as a call to action (political, presumably).
"St. Peter's Autograph" has a nice little hum-able melody, but lacked dynamic change to keep my interest (also fielded a phone call during this one)
"It Gets Easier"...some funny quips about his struggle against addiction.  A message that hopefully resonates with those who need it.
"Letting You Go" is another one for his daughter.

[WiregrassTiger]

Got the new Isbell album yesterday.

It's a bit more subdued and introspective-sounding than The Nashville Sound, with no single jumping out at me on the first two listens.

Quick impressions:

"What've I Done to Help" starts so quickly it's a bit jarring.  More of a chant than a classic song structure.
The chorus in "Dreamsicle" is a bit clunky, but the picture painted by the verse lyrics is classic Isbell
"Only Children" sounds like a bit of an ode to Patterson Hood (or some prior songwriting companion)
Really like the guitar work in "Overseas."  He played this one live last time I saw him and it SOARS in concert.
"Running With Our Eyes Closed" features some nice, understated bluesy riffing.
Watch out for the paradoxically subtle and hard left turn in the narrative in "River."
"Be Afraid" is as close to a straight-up rocker that this album has.  Also doubles as a call to action (political, presumably).
"St. Peter's Autograph" has a nice little hum-able melody, but lacked dynamic change to keep my interest (also fielded a phone call during this one)
"It Gets Easier"...some funny quips about his struggle against addiction.  A message that hopefully resonates with those who need it.
"Letting You Go" is another one for his daughter.

You have always been a good writer. Or, should I say that you have always written well? You know.

I have always appreciated it, especially when you use the big words and so effortlessly. But, I just want to say that if you keep it up, I seriously believe that you are capable of writing something on par with kaos’ work one day.