Tomi, at 24, is smarter than most of Washington

[AUChizad]

What is your stance on the issue of abortion?

Basically this.

Listen, I am not glorifying abortion. I don't personally advocate for it. I just don't think it's the government's place to dictate.

Like most things, I completely understand both arguments and don't take a hard stance on it because of this.

I think we've gotten a little too "loosey goosey" with celebrating it in the name of feminism and people conflating it with "women's health" are intentionally deceptive.

BUT

I don't like the government getting involved with people's personal decisions, and it is (or should at least be) a difficult one that people have to make on their own as (hopefully) a last reasort.

BUT

Individual liberties end when they impede someone else and that includes the child-to-be.

BUT

The crux of the argument has really been from the beginning "where does life begin?" You all know I'm not a religious person, but I don't think you have to be to see a fetus in the womb and understand that that thing is on its way to personhood.

BUT

Technically so is a zygote that I'm perfectly ok with wiping out with a morning after pill. So again, it all centers around the idea of "where does life begin"? I think people pushing for later and later termed abortions being legal is abhorrent. I think by the third-trimester the thing is just about autonomous.

After all of that I land on the law as it currently exists in most states is about right and I'd like it to stay the status quo. Push any further to extend beyond the second trimester (outside of legitimate health concerns of the mother) and I think there's a huge ethical concern. Outlaw it entirely and you have another set of ethical concerns about government intrusion as well as the "black market" effect that most government overreach leads to, which in this case involves coat hangers and back alleys.

[Kaos]

For me the "right to decide what to do with my body" ends the second it's not JUST your body.

Problem is there's no consensus on when that occurs. It's a good discussion to have when you recognize historical context.  We aren't that far removed from not bothering to name children for a couple of years because the survival rate was that low.  We aren't far from societies that discard first born girls, that smother handicapped babies and so forth. Even Old Testament God wasn't hesitant about coming after children. 

As a general rule and if you ask me I'm opposed.  I reject the "my body" feminazi stance.  I think Roe v Wade is a bad interpretation and an overreach by the SC.  Abortion is murder.  But at the same time I see the other side of it.  Still -- as get off my porch as this sounds -- I'm not really willing to support anything that makes promiscuity a simpler proposition. 

[War Eagle!!!]

Basically this.

Like most things, I completely understand both arguments and don't take a hard stance on it because of this.

I think we've gotten a little too "loosey goosey" with celebrating it in the name of feminism and people conflating it with "women's health" are intentionally deceptive.

BUT

I don't like the government getting involved with people's personal decisions, and it is (or should at least be) a difficult one that people have to make on their own as (hopefully) a last reasort.

BUT

Individual liberties end when they impede someone else and that includes the child-to-be.

BUT

The crux of the argument has really been from the beginning "where does life begin?" You all know I'm not a religious person, but I don't think you have to be to see a fetus in the womb and understand that that thing is on its way to personhood.

BUT

Technically so is a zygote that I'm perfectly ok with wiping out with a morning after pill. So again, it all centers around the idea of "where does life begin"? I think people pushing for later and later termed abortions being legal is abhorrent. I think by the third-trimester the thing is just about autonomous.

After all of that I land on the law as it currently exists in most states is about right and I'd like it to stay the status quo. Push any further to extend beyond the second trimester (outside of legitimate health concerns of the mother) and I think there's a huge ethical concern. Outlaw it entirely and you have another set of ethical concerns about government intrusion as well as the "black market" effect that most government overreach leads to, which in this case involves coat hangers and back alleys.

Pretty much where I stand.

I was just curious as I thought you would agree with her on this.

[War Eagle!!!]

As a general rule and if you ask me I'm opposed.  I reject the "my body" feminazi stance.  I think Roe v Wade is a bad interpretation and an overreach by the SC.  Abortion is murder.  But at the same time I see the other side of it.  Still -- as get off my porch as this sounds -- I'm not really willing to support anything that makes promiscuity a simpler proposition.

Agreed on principal. But the promiscuity isn't going to stop. And there would be so many babies if there were not something there. Is it worse to not have the baby aborted and to let the baby grow up in a world where the mother doesn't want him or her?

I am with Chad on this...which means...I don't really know a solution...

[AUJarhead]

Agreed on principal. But the promiscuity isn't going to stop. And there would be so many babies if there were not something there. Is it worse to not have the baby aborted and to let the baby grow up in a world where the mother doesn't want him or her?

I am with Chad on this...which means...I don't really know a solution...

Then we should change the laws to make it easier to adopt.  One of my good friends from college went to Columbia to adopt his two children, because it was cheaper than adopting an American born child.  And it cost him about 30k for each child.

[War Eagle!!!]

Then we should change the laws to make it easier to adopt.  One of my good friends from college went to Columbia to adopt his two children, because it was cheaper than adopting an American born child.  And it cost him about 30k for each child.

Would love to see this too. And would also love to see some sort of hysterectomy if you have multiple children up for adoption or multiple abortions. Using abortions for birth control needs to stop.

[AUJarhead]

Would love to see this too. And would also love to see some sort of hysterectomy if you have multiple children up for adoption or multiple abortions. Using abortions for birth control needs to stop.

Couldn't have said it better, myself. 

[Kaos]

Would love to see this too. And would also love to see some sort of hysterectomy if you have multiple children up for adoption or multiple abortions. Using abortions for birth control needs to stop.

That gets into my whole final solution scenario. 

Ethel Lee had seven children, never held a job, never earned a dime of her own money to feed, house, clothe or educate any of them.  That should have been stopped at two, max. Her children have no chance. And there's nothing more assistance programs could improve. She needs hard consequences.

By the same token I knew a black kid who had 14 children by nine different mothers before he was 21. He also never worked a day.  That should have been stopped also.

We have the technology to use implants to prevent pregnancy. Those can be reversed.  They should be used.

You have to pass a test and prove you have insurance (not government provided or managed insurance, mind you) before you can get a driver's license.  Im of the opinion you should be subjected to at least that minimum scrutiny before you are allowed to bring children into this world.  Prove you have sufficient intellect and the financial/emotional capacity to care for a child. 

Yes. I know how that sounds.

[Saniflush]

Then we should change the laws to make it easier to adopt.  One of my good friends from college went to Columbia to adopt his two children, because it was cheaper than adopting an American born child.  And it cost him about 30k for each child.

I'll take where to hide a brick of cocaine for $500

[wesfau2]

I'll take where to hide a brick of cocaine for $500

This guy knows.

I'm basically aligned with Chad on this point.

I would LOVE to see free contraception available to everyone...and disincentivized child birth via welfare.

Complicated issue.