Health Care

[Godfather]

so you mopped floors and solved mathematical equations in the hallway?

Even apples hated him.


-10 to Buzz!

[AUChizad]

CBO report is out.  Ugly.

I'm not so sure. Relative to Obamacare, at least.

The biggest hit against it is that under ObamaCare, 28 million people would be uninsured by 2026. Under the GOP plan, that number increases to 54 million. Sounds bad. But keep in mind that those 28 million people (about 9% of the country) are PAYING A PENALTY to not have this mandatory insurance. The CBO says specifically that "most of the increase" is from people "losing" insurance so they no longer have to pay the penalties under ObamaCare. Also the premiums will be (marginally) cheaper, and you're free to actually CHOOSE if you want coverage or not.

And it's not only cheaper to the average member, but it COSTS less too.

$883 billion tax cut
$1.2 trillion spending cut
$337 billion in deficit reduction

Seriously asking, what is your take on why it is obviously significantly worse than what it's replacing Wes?

[CCTAU]

so you mopped floors and solved mathematical equations in the hallway?

Goodwill Dallas?

[GH2001]

I'm not so sure. Relative to Obamacare, at least.

The biggest hit against it is that under ObamaCare, 28 million people would be uninsured by 2026. Under the GOP plan, that number increases to 54 million. Sounds bad. But keep in mind that those 28 million people (about 9% of the country) are PAYING A PENALTY to not have this mandatory insurance. The CBO says specifically that "most of the increase" is from people "losing" insurance so they no longer have to pay the penalties under ObamaCare. Also the premiums will be (marginally) cheaper, and you're free to actually CHOOSE if you want coverage or not.

And it's not only cheaper to the average member, but it COSTS less too.

$883 billion tax cut
$1.2 trillion spending cut
$337 billion in deficit reduction

Seriously asking, what is your take on why it is obviously significantly worse than what it's replacing Wes?

Correct. It's gonna cost either way. This is the lesser. It's a one time short term hit. The cost to keep it is astronomical.

[wesfau2]

I'm not so sure. Relative to Obamacare, at least.

The biggest hit against it is that under ObamaCare, 28 million people would be uninsured by 2026. Under the GOP plan, that number increases to 54 million. Sounds bad. But keep in mind that those 28 million people (about 9% of the country) are PAYING A PENALTY to not have this mandatory insurance. The CBO says specifically that "most of the increase" is from people "losing" insurance so they no longer have to pay the penalties under ObamaCare. Also the premiums will be (marginally) cheaper, and you're free to actually CHOOSE if you want coverage or not.

And it's not only cheaper to the average member, but it COSTS less too.

$883 billion tax cut
$1.2 trillion spending cut
$337 billion in deficit reduction

Seriously asking, what is your take on why it is obviously significantly worse than what it's replacing Wes?

The "deficit reduction" comes entirely from the Medicare/Medicaid budget cuts.  Good luck passing this.  The elderly vote.

[Saniflush]

  The elderly vote.

I can fix this with a drive by in the wiregrass area.

[Kaos]

The "deficit reduction" comes entirely from the Medicare/Medicaid budget cuts.  Good luck passing this.  The elderly vote.

Nice shift. 

Move quickly away from "it sucks because....uh... Trump!"  to  "It's never gonna pass." 

Also doesn't answer the question -- AT ALL.   

[wesfau2]

Nice shift. 

Move quickly away from "it sucks because....uh... Trump!"  to  "It's never gonna pass." 

Also doesn't answer the question -- AT ALL.

I'll try to be clearer:  the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid will endanger people. 

[GH2001]

I'll try to be clearer:  the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid will endanger people.

Even if we bring the costs down? And give some good tax credits?

And are we confusing 20% reduction in Medicare costs with 20% in reduction of care? Because they aren't the same. Especially when efficiency measures are put in effect.

[Kaos]

I'll try to be clearer:  the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid will endanger people.

 

Mule shit.

[AUTailgatingRules]

Rachel Maddow told me tonight that Trump actually paid $38 million in taxes in 2005

[wesfau2]

Even if we bring the costs down? And give some good tax credits?

And are we confusing 20% reduction in Medicare costs with 20% in reduction of care? Because they aren't the same. Especially when efficiency measures are put in effect.

Sure, cost control would be fantastic.  The formula that artificially caps federal matching of Medicaid funds is a clumsy tool to enact that, though.  A pandemic, the effects of a continued "war on drugs" with the silent partnership of the private prison industry on the opioid epidemic, or escalation of the international tensions resulting in some calamity...all could send a state sailing through the federal cap and exposing those who rely on Medicaid (often the very young, old and disabled) to unnecessary risk.

[Snaggletiger]

I swear I didn't smoke anything before clicking on this thread. 

[Kaos]

Sure, cost control would be fantastic.  The formula that artificially caps federal matching of Medicaid funds is a clumsy tool to enact that, though.  A pandemic, the effects of a continued "war on drugs" with the silent partnership of the private prison industry on the opioid epidemic, or escalation of the international tensions resulting in some calamity...all could send a state sailing through the federal cap and exposing those who rely on Medicaid (often the very young, old and disabled) to unnecessary risk.

And zombies from the planet Sargon could eat through the ozone layer and shit flaming rainbows into the night sky.  If we're talking calamitous what ifs and all. 

So your solution is to continue to do what doesn't work and grease more money up the hogs ass that is medicaid? That's a great idea. 

[GH2001]

And zombies from the planet Sargon could eat through the ozone layer and shit flaming rainbows into the night sky.  If we're talking calamitous what ifs and all. 

So your solution is to continue to do what doesn't work and grease more money up the hogs ass that is medicaid? That's a great idea.

Ok that would be soooo cool man.

[wesfau2]

So your solution is to continue to do what doesn't work and grease more money up the hogs ass that is medicaid? That's a great idea.

Medicaid is routinely compared to private insurance and found to be more efficient and better at controlling cost increases.

And, my goal is to have everyone insured (public or private) so, kicking a bunch of people off the insurance rolls (especially those most vulnerable) isn't a palatable option for me.

[GH2001]

Medicaid is routinely compared to private insurance and found to be more efficient and better at controlling cost increases.

And, my goal is to have everyone insured (public or private) so, kicking a bunch of people off the insurance rolls (especially those most vulnerable) isn't a palatable option for me.

Because they contract that lower rate with medical providers. It short changes a lot of doctors. It's why a lot of them don't like taking it. It can be debated on what the procedure should cost - I get that. But it should be at a rate that both the customer can pay and the doctor can make a living from. Believe it or not lots of doctors and hospitals are struggling with the bottom line because of their own costs that they can't do much about.

[Kaos]

And, my goal is to have everyone insured (public or private) so, kicking a bunch of people off the insurance rolls (especially those most vulnerable) isn't a palatable option for me.

A) Your "goal" is socialist folly. 
B) Darwin, bitch
C) Nobody's being kicked off anything.  If you're sick in this country you get care.  Peeriod. Was that way before the Imam ruined the lives of millions of Americans who can no longer afford to take care of themselves. 

Here's the thing.  Before Obamabitch I could pay for full coverage for all of my employees.  We had a good plan with really good benefits.  We now have a substantially shittier plan with higher yearly deductibles, higher co-pays, higher prescription costs, fewer covered procedures, less preventative care, and premiums that are more than three times what they were eight years ago.

I want to take care of my employees.  I want to take care of myself.  When government interferes to the point that I can no longer afford to do that? 

THAT'S what's not palatable.  It doesn't work.

When you solve the problems of jobs fleeing the country because of shitty policies enacted by democratic presidents?  The insurance "crisis" ( which never fucking existed in the first place ) goes away.  When you rid the country of millions of people just living off the government ( what the democrats want, because on the dole is under control ) and put them to work you can leave insurance alone.  It will regulate itself through competition. 

Right now we reward destructive behavior.  Have one kid get a check. Have two?  Get more. Have three, four, five, six, seven... just keep on getting.  There have to be consequences for bad choices and people with your mindset seem to be unwilling to accept this basic fact.  Everybody gets the same free healthcare is NOT a consequence.   

I've said a lot of times that I respect your opinion, but you're a raving lunatic if you honestly believe that management will have a better chance at controlling costs than the free enterprise market.  You've lost touch with reality if you can't see that everyone is NOT entitled to the same level of anything. 

That's -- again -- equal outcomes.  It's socialism.  It's not going to work here, now or ever. 

[GH2001]

A) Your "goal" is socialist folly. 
B) Darwin, bitch
C) Nobody's being kicked off anything.  If you're sick in this country you get care.  Peeriod. Was that way before the Imam ruined the lives of millions of Americans who can no longer afford to take care of themselves. 

Here's the thing.  Before Obamabitch I could pay for full coverage for all of my employees.  We had a good plan with really good benefits.  We now have a substantially shittier plan with higher yearly deductibles, higher co-pays, higher prescription costs, fewer covered procedures, less preventative care, and premiums that are more than three times what they were eight years ago.

I want to take care of my employees.  I want to take care of myself.  When government interferes to the point that I can no longer afford to do that? 

THAT'S what's not palatable.  It doesn't work.

When you solve the problems of jobs fleeing the country because of shitty policies enacted by democratic presidents?  The insurance "crisis" ( which never fucking existed in the first place ) goes away.  When you rid the country of millions of people just living off the government ( what the democrats want, because on the dole is under control ) and put them to work you can leave insurance alone.  It will regulate itself through competition. 

Right now we reward destructive behavior.  Have one kid get a check. Have two?  Get more. Have three, four, five, six, seven... just keep on getting.  There have to be consequences for bad choices and people with your mindset seem to be unwilling to accept this basic fact.  Everybody gets the same free healthcare is NOT a consequence.   

I've said a lot of times that I respect your opinion, but you're a raving lunatic if you honestly believe that management will have a better chance at controlling costs than the free enterprise market.  You've lost touch with reality if you can't see that everyone is NOT entitled to the same level of anything. 

That's -- again -- equal outcomes.  It's socialism.  It's not going to work here, now or ever.

You tell em- bitch.

You said IMAM. HA

[wesfau2]

but you're a raving lunatic if you honestly believe that management will have a better chance at controlling costs than the free enterprise market. 

The "free market" doesn't exist and its concepts are wholly inapplicable to health care.