Health Care

[wesfau2]

I need someone to convince me that healthcare should be a free market commodity.

If we go back to the rulebook on this, Adam Smith would say that free enterprise requires choice.  The buyer must choose to be in the marketplace for free market principals to apply.

Who volunteers to get the flu?  Or cancer?

[Kaos]

I need someone to convince me that healthcare should be a free market commodity.

If we go back to the rulebook on this, Adam Smith would say that free enterprise requires choice.  The buyer must choose to be in the marketplace for free market principals to apply.

Who volunteers to get the flu?  Or cancer?

Don't be ridiculous.  People are going to get sick whether they want to be or not.

When it happens they should have the ability to choose the provider and determine what measures to take.

[wesfau2]

Don't be ridiculous.  People are going to get sick whether they want to be or not.

Yeah.  That's what I said.

[War Eagle!!!]

Why I don't want government run anything....

Won't name the state but my company provides them a software system. Licensing and maintenance runs about $200k a year.  Every five years we have to rebid but the way the bid is structured they bid out maintenance on my software.  Can't do that without access to my code which I'm not giving.

If they want to change they can bid out the entire system.  Conversion, implementation etc. I still have an advantage.

So. One of the programs in the state had a meeting with a local software vendor who said he could do what we do more efficiently and at a lower rate.  This despite having no experience in navigating the tangled morass of federal regulation that is the basis of the system we've been doing for the last 15 years. 

This guy demanded a feasibility study to determine whether they would be better off designing their own self-maintained system or continuing to use ours (our our competitors less functional more expensive version).  The state caved. They hired a third party to evaluate their data entry processes and review our system capabilities. 

Bear in mind we were in year one of a five year contact with three additional years of automatic opt in when this started. My people had to waste the better part of a year working with their data analysts. The first thing we had to do was essentially train them on all the federal regulations that drive the reporting. They had zero background and less than zero understanding of what they were looking at or should expect to see.  Huge manpower drain for me and the state rejected my position that providing this effort was outside the scope of the contract.

So the evaluators finish, determine that there's no way in hell they could recreate what we do for what they pay. Everybody moves on.

Today I find out the state paid over $3 mil for that study. For 1/10th of that I could have made major improvement in their system AND bought a boat. 

So you pay $3m to find out if it makes sense to pay $200k a year for a software system.

Good government.

You need better sales people. Why the fuck did you do that without threatening to pull out and leave them hanging with nothing? That was yours, or your sales people's lack of negotiating...

[The Prowler]

AARP is against TrumpCare

“This bill would weaken Medicare’s fiscal sustainability, dramatically increase health care costs for Americans aged 50-64 and put at risk the health care of millions of children and adults with disabilities, and poor seniors who depend on the Medicaid program for long-term services and supports and other benefits..." - Joyce A. Rogers, a senior vice president at AARP.

[Snaggletiger]

I need someone to convince me that healthcare should be a free market commodity.

If we go back to the rulebook on this, Adam Smith would say that free enterprise requires choice.  The buyer must choose to be in the marketplace for free market principals to apply.

Who volunteers to get the flu?  Or cancer?

Why are you being so obtuse?

[AUChizad]

I need someone to convince me that healthcare should be a free market commodity.

If we go back to the rulebook on this, Adam Smith would say that free enterprise requires choice.  The buyer must choose to be in the marketplace for free market principals to apply.

Who volunteers to get the flu?  Or cancer?

That's like saying "Who volunteers to be homeless?" so we must socialize housing. "Who volunteers to starve?" we must now socialize food. "Who volunteers to not drive where they want to go?" so everyone must receive their taxpayer funded cars.

The logical conclusion of that line of thinking doesn't end at vital necessities.

"Who volunteers not to have a swimming pool?" "Who volunteers not to have expensive clothes?" "Who volunteers not to have the latest generation iPad?"

[wesfau2]

That's like saying "Who volunteers to be homeless?" so we must socialize housing. "Who volunteers to starve?" we must now socialize food. "Who volunteers to not drive where they want to go?" so everyone must receive their taxpayer funded cars.

The logical conclusion of that line of thinking doesn't end at vital necessities.

"Who volunteers not to have a swimming pool?" "Who volunteers not to have expensive clothes?" "Who volunteers not to have the latest generation iPad?"

I disagree.

Health and healthcare is unique.

I still believe that the "free market" argument is a tool the "haves" use to continue to play keep away from the "have-nots."  We don't live in a free market nation. 

[AUChizad]

I disagree.

Health and healthcare is unique.

I still believe that the "free market" argument is a tool the "haves" use to continue to play keep away from the "have-nots."  We don't live in a free market nation.

Why do you want people to be homeless and to starve with no means of transportation? Ya dirty "have".

[Token]

Honest to God, this thread has restored my faith and belief in this great country.  Intelligent people (who are all notorious assholes and line steppers) discussing a serious problem with intelligent debate. 

Thank you, TigersX.

[Token]

Wes-----------------Chizad-----------------Kaos


In this political year I've learned that I'm between Chad and Kaos but I'm probably a little closer to Chad.

[Snaggletiger]

Wes-----------------Chizad-----------------Kaos


In this political year I've learned that I'm between Chad and Kaos but I'm probably a little closer to Chad.

I'm closer to Godfather.  Damn, that guy is hawt.

[WiregrassTiger]

This thread is chock-full of gay.

[Kaos]

I disagree.

Health and healthcare is unique.

I still believe that the "free market" argument is a tool the "haves" use to continue to play keep away from the "have-nots."  We don't live in a free market nation.

Yes. We do. 

Healthcare isn't unique.  It's a commodity

[The Prowler]

So, hopefully back to the drawing board for TrumpCare. They need more than 8 years to come up with a better solution that doesn't put a large percentage of the population at risk...smh.

"It’s an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated." - Trump

[The Prowler]

Jim Acosta ✔ @Acosta
Trump told Tea Party groups at WH if GOP health care plan dies, he will let Obamacare fail and let Dems take the blame, I'm told.
8:35 PM - 8 Mar 2017

So, if he doesn't get his way, he's going stomp his feet and pout, then he's going to make sure millions of Americans die...blame it on the Democrats.

[Snaggletiger]

Jim Acosta ✔ @Acosta
Trump told Tea Party groups at WH if GOP health care plan dies, he will let Obamacare fail and let Dems take the blame, I'm told.
8:35 PM - 8 Mar 2017

So, if he doesn't get his way, he's going stomp his feet and pout, then he's going to make sure millions of Americans die...blame it on the Democrats.

Sad

[Kaos]

Jim Acosta ✔ @Acosta
Trump told Tea Party groups at WH if GOP health care plan dies, he will let Obamacare fail and let Dems take the blame, I'm told.
8:35 PM - 8 Mar 2017

So, if he doesn't get his way, he's going stomp his feet and pout, then he's going to make sure millions of Americans die...blame it on the Democrats.

Idiot.

I hope the democrats are the ones to die. 

[Ogre]

I disagree.

Health and healthcare is unique.

I still believe that the "free market" argument is a tool the "haves" use to continue to play keep away from the "have-nots."  We don't live in a free market nation.

How can I have a "right" to someone else's time and services?  In order for me to receive healthcare, it has to be provided by someone else.  What do we do in the event of a doctor shortage?  Is the government going to force anyone with a RN, LPN, or PhD in medicine to work?  Not allow them to retire until they're 80?  What will be the incentive of going to medical school if I'm going to be capped in what I can make by the government?   

My rights end where someone else's begin.  I don't have a "right" to someone else's labor.

[GH2001]

I'm closer to Godfather.  Damn, that guy is hawt.

Yes! He most certainly....I mean yeah he's a pretty ok dude.