Health Care

[GH2001]

Edit note:  That's unfair to you, nook.  None of us have read it, but the pie in the sky hopes and dreams in your post seem about as likely as a Kaos/Prowler 69.

Kinky

I would not watch. But would listen to cliff notes.

[wesfau2]

i'll smoke it out.  next time you visit in oregon.

Guaranteed.

[CCTAU]

My honest take on ACA and the future of it...

It was a massive redistribution of wealth disguised as a social program. It was played on people's emotion and well being. To make healthcare affordable (translate to subsidized or free) for 20% of the population, prices increased on the other 80%. Sorry but that's wealth redistribution at its finest. It was a giant ponzi scheme from the start in the fact that it needed x number of healthy young people paying premiums or a "mandate tax" for it to break even at best. That hasnt happened. Insurance companies have also hedged, are charging most of us much more for our existing plans and they are making money hand over foot.


The problem now is we have millions on the dole. What do we do with them? That's the magic question. Now we're in a quandary. Do you throw people to the wolves? But do you also let other continue to pick up the tab for them? Neither is right.


I feel like we could have taken some smaller more incremental steps to fix our issues than to implement this pile of garbage. State line removal and competition, focus on decreasing hc COSTS (nobody seems to address this), pre existing condition reform, age limit reform, etc. These things would have put a big dent in the issue.

The good thing about this is that it is a start. I think it will be worked on over the next few months. I don't think we will get the ole, "We need to pass it ti see what's in it" rimjob!
But we will get the shriekers out in full force.

[Kaos]

Blind allegiance.  Atta boy!

Actually?  You misunderstand for the one millionth time.

Blind allegiance?  None.

Complete contempt for the Imam in Chief and Cruella DeClinton?  Yes.

Over the past eight years I became convinced that their globalist/socialist world view (which has failed miserably every time it's been attempted with the exception of creating an autocratic ruling class) would doom this republic.  It must all be swept away and as well as those who stupidly support it.

His creation must go.  In a perfect world it would simply be eliminated and returned to the free market. But the gimmedats who care not where the money comes from so long as they don't supply it have already gotten a taste of "free shit" thanks to that son of a bitch and the socialist whore. So you can't go completely back.

[wesfau2]

Actually?  You misunderstand for the one millionth time.

Blind allegiance?  None.

Complete contempt for the Imam in Chief and Cruella DeClinton?  Yes.

Over the past eight years I became convinced that their globalist/socialist world view (which has failed miserably every time it's been attempted with the exception of creating an autocratic ruling class) would doom this republic.  It must all be swept away and as well as those who stupidly support it.

His creation must go.  In a perfect world it would simply be eliminated and returned to the free market. But the gimmedats who care not where the money comes from so long as they don't supply it have already gotten a taste of "free shit" thanks to that son of a bitch and the socialist whore. So you can't go completely back.

You'll be happy to know that Americans For Prosperity is swarming DC today to get that full repeal you want.

[GH2001]

You'll be happy to know that Americans For Prosperity is swarming DC today to get that full repeal you want.

You make decent arguments when not being obtuse. Unfortunately that's what you are being with this topic. You have to see how this legislation is a major problem in general. I'm not saying healthcare isn't an issue. This just isn't the way to do it. It's robin hood. I'll ask point blank - do you think that is the way this should work?

[Kaos]

My honest take on ACA and the future of it...

It was a massive redistribution of wealth disguised as a social program. It was played on people's emotion and well being. To make healthcare affordable (translate to subsidized or free) for 20% of the population, prices increased on the other 80%. Sorry but that's wealth redistribution at its finest. It was a giant ponzi scheme from the start in the fact that it needed x number of healthy young people paying premiums or a "mandate tax" for it to break even at best. That hasnt happened. Insurance companies have also hedged, are charging most of us much more for our existing plans and they are making money hand over foot.


The problem now is we have millions on the dole. What do we do with them? That's the magic question. Now we're in a quandary. Do you throw people to the wolves? But do you also let other continue to pick up the tab for them? Neither is right.


I feel like we could have taken some smaller more incremental steps to fix our issues than to implement this pile of garbage. State line removal and competition, focus on decreasing hc COSTS (nobody seems to address this), pre existing condition reform, age limit reform, etc. These things would have put a big dent in the issue.

Yeah. Precisely. All of this. 

But I'm all for the wolves.  So there.

[AUChizad]

You make decent arguments when not being obtuse. Unfortunately that's what you are being with this topic. You have to see how this legislation is a major problem in general. I'm not saying healthcare isn't an issue. This just isn't the way to do it. It's robin hood. I'll ask point blank - do you think that is the way this should work?

What's obtuse is pretending this version is significantly better because Trump "authored" it.

[GH2001]

What's obtuse is pretending this version is significantly better because Trump "authored" it.

Probably, yes. Even moreso is thinking that either is/was a good idea. I don't want govt in healthcare. I don't want them in marriage. And countless other things. Many rules and regulations that they have put in place are some of the very reason that healthcare is an issue. Getting out of the way would have done more good than anything. One example, let consumers shop across state lines. Opens up instant competition. Let high risk people pool together more easily. Simple things.

[Snaggletiger]

Probably, yes. Even moreso is thinking that either is/was a good idea. I don't want govt in healthcare. I don't want them in marriage. And countless other things. Many rules and regulations that they have put in place are some of the very reason that healthcare is an issue. Getting out of the way would have done more good than anything. One example, let consumers shop across state lines. Opens up instant competition. Let high risk people pool together more easily. Simple things.

Most rational thing I've seen posted in a while.   

[Ogre]

Probably, yes. Even moreso is thinking that either is/was a good idea. I don't want govt in healthcare. I don't want them in marriage. And countless other things. Many rules and regulations that they have put in place are some of the very reason that healthcare is an issue. Getting out of the way would have done more good than anything. One example, let consumers shop across state lines. Opens up instant competition. Let high risk people pool together more easily. Simple things.

That sounds awfully libertarianish of you. 

[Kaos]

What's obtuse is pretending this version is significantly better because Trump "authored" it.

I want it gone.  Anything that eases toward that objective is inherently better. 

Before the shit show that was "Obamacare" there was no healthcare crisis.  Nobody was doing without.  My employees are NOW, thanks to that fucking fuck. 

So yeah.  Anything's better.

End of discussion.

[GH2001]

That sounds awfully libertarianish of you.

Many parts of the constitution are and should remain that way. Marriage and healthcare are two of them.

[wesfau2]

Before the shit show that was "Obamacare" there was no healthcare crisis.  Nobody was doing without. 

So wrong.

[GH2001]

So wrong.

The plans on the private market were more affordable 7-8 years ago than they are now in the exchange. I had to plan shop and remember it vividly. The difference now is that people are getting subsidized. Others who don't get subsidized are paying out the ass. Moreso than what the private market was before ACA.

Do you think this is the way it (healthcare) should operate? Taking from some to cover others?

What I'm driving at here Wes is this - Is it a good long term solution to healthcare? Being dead serious. I think it's a very band aided approach. And misses the root issue of what most of the problem is. Which is COSTS.

[Kaos]

So wrong.

There's not one single motherfucking soul in this country who did not have access to life saving measures. 

I dont know what glass bubble world you live in but you should really get out more. Spend some time in the ghetto.

I owned a furniture store for almost a decade that catered to the "less than" class. I walked in that world every day.  They could not be turned away if they took their kid to the emergency room with the sniffles. Which happened hundreds of thousand times a day. Bill? What bill.  As Ethel Lee Johnson told me in reference to the stack of medical bills related to her seven children and three grandchildren (none of whom had or had ever had a job) "all you got to do is send 'em a dollar a month. They can't do shit about it"

Instead she spent the government disability (down in her back) checks, her welfare money and her kids 'crazy checks' with me... buying big screen TVs, stereos, VCRs, dining room sets, bed room sets, glass and brass etarges, lamps, freezers and other shit.

So don't even try to tell me people couldn't get care. There's a difference between being uninsured and being denied care.

[CCTAU]

^^^^^NOBODY is without healthcare!^^^^^

[The Prowler]

There's not one single motherfucking soul in this country who did not have access to life saving measures. 

I dont know what glass bubble world you live in but you should really get out more. Spend some time in the ghetto.

I owned a furniture store for almost a decade that catered to the "less than" class. I walked in that world every day.  They could not be turned away if they took their kid to the emergency room with the sniffles. Which happened hundreds of thousand times a day. Bill? What bill.  As Ethel Lee Johnson told me in reference to the stack of medical bills related to her seven children and three grandchildren (none of whom had or had ever had a job) "all you got to do is send 'em a dollar a month. They can't do shit about it"

Instead she spent the government disability (down in her back) checks, her welfare money and her kids 'crazy checks' with me... buying big screen TVs, stereos, VCRs, dining room sets, bed room sets, glass and brass etarges, lamps, freezers and other shit.

So don't even try to tell me people couldn't get care. There's a difference between being uninsured and being denied care.

Wrong.

[The Prowler]

The plans on the private market were more affordable 7-8 years ago than they are now in the exchange. I had to plan shop and remember it vividly. The difference now is that people are getting subsidized. Others who don't get subsidized are paying out the ass. Moreso than what the private market was before ACA.

Do you think this is the way it (healthcare) should operate? Taking from some to cover others?

What I'm driving at here Wes is this - Is it a good long term solution to healthcare? Being dead serious. I think it's a very band aided approach. And misses the root issue of what most of the problem is. Which is COSTS.

Wrong.

[chinook]

Wrong.

i realize you're limited to caveman type but please tell us why he's wrong. 

he is dead on.