Lsu thinks Les is more

[Buzz Killington]

Tubs biggest issue wasn't that he went after Franklin, it's that he kept all the offensive staff in place.  Franklin didn't hire anyone to come in and coach with him.  I think it would have been just as much a disaster if he brought in Gus in 2008.

So the whole "went after the wrong personnel" isn't quite right.  More like "didn't go after any staff."

But the EOTTC meetings wouldn't have been as much fun.

[AUJarhead]

But the EOTTC meetings wouldn't have been as much fun.

Dont you have a ticket you should be scalping?

[Kaos]

Tubs biggest issue wasn't that he went after Franklin, it's that he kept all the offensive staff in place.  Franklin didn't hire anyone to come in and coach with him.  I think it would have been just as much a disaster if he brought in Gus in 2008.

So the whole "went after the wrong personnel" isn't quite right.  More like "didn't go after any staff."

Ok, so let's rehash THIS argument again.

Show me in the history of college football where a head coach hires a coordinator and the coordinator brings in "his staff" to go along with him. 

It doesn't happen. 

The Franklin hire was the right thing to do, but just the wrong guy to do it. 

[RWS]

Tubs biggest issue wasn't that he went after Franklin, it's that he kept all the offensive staff in place.  Franklin didn't hire anyone to come in and coach with him.  I think it would have been just as much a disaster if he brought in Gus in 2008.

So the whole "went after the wrong personnel" isn't quite right.  More like "didn't go after any staff."

I don't understand why you have to change your whole offensive staff just for a new OC.  I mean yeah every few years you will have some turnover with position coaches, but that's normal.  I don't think that making wholesale personnel changes to occompany a new OC is the norm.  If your position coaches are worth a shit in the first place (which maybe AU's weren't, I don't really know) it shouldn't matter.  It might have been a disaster with Gus, but it probably would have been less likely.  Gus is a very good coordinator.  When you're transitioning from Tuberville style of offense to Gus', it is going to take a few years to re-tool.  That's a pretty drastic change that requires a different set of personnel to some extent.

[Buzz Killington]

I don't understand why you have to change your whole offensive staff just for a new OC.  I mean yeah every few years you will have some turnover with position coaches, but that's normal.  I don't think that making wholesale personnel changes to occompany a new OC is the norm.  If your position coaches are worth a shoot in the first place (which maybe AU's weren't, I don't really know) it shouldn't matter.  It might have been a disaster with Gus, but it probably would have been less likely.  Gus is a very good coordinator.  When you're transitioning from Tuberville style of offense to Gus', it is going to take a few years to re-tool.  That's a pretty drastic change that requires a different set of personnel to some extent.

In theory I agree.  However, you can't take an OL coarch that has leaned heavily on run blocking and ask him to go all Meercat pass block happy overnight.  This is exactly what happened with Hugh Nall in that case.

[Snaggletiger]

In theory I agree.  However, you can't take an OL coarch that has leaned heavily on run blocking and ask him to go all Meercat pass block happy overnight.  This is exactly what happened with Hugh Nall in that case.

This is troof. 

[Godfather]

Ok, so let's rehash THIS argument again.

Show me in the history of college football where a head coach hires a coordinator and the coordinator brings in "his staff" to go along with him. 

It doesn't happen. 

The Franklin hire was the right thing to do, but just the wrong guy to do it.

You do usually get to bring in one guy with you.  A la Muschamp with T-Rob, Gus brought in Lashlee (as a Graduate Coach or whatever).  But IMO that wasn't the problem it failed.

I don't know that Franklin was necessarily the wrong guy for the offense, but he didn't fit in with the offensive staff.  They didn't believe in what he was doing and so it failed.

[Snaggletiger]

You do usually get to bring in one guy with you.  A la Muschamp with T-Rob, Gus brought in Lashlee (as a Graduate Coach or whatever).  But IMO that wasn't the problem it failed.

I don't know that Franklin was necessarily the wrong guy for the offense, but he didn't fit in with the offensive staff.  They didn't believe in what he was doing and so it failed.

Plus, Franklin was a devout Muslim.

[GH2001]

Ok, so let's rehash THIS argument again.

Show me in the history of college football where a head coach hires a coordinator and the coordinator brings in "his staff" to go along with him. 

It doesn't happen. 

The Franklin hire was the right thing to do, but just the wrong guy to do it.

Its not that he needed to bring in his current staff with him....its that he was forced to take the existing staff that Tubs had and coexist with it, even though it was oil and water. An OC doesnt have to bring his existing staff with him, but he does need to have a say in who works for him at the new place. He never had that option.

[RWS]

Its not that he needed to bring in his current staff with him....its that he was forced to take the existing staff that Tubs had and coexist with it, even though it was oil and water. An OC doesnt have to bring his existing staff with him, but he does need to have a say in who works for him at the new place. He never had that option.

That may be on Tuberville in the sense that, if true, he should have told his people to shut the fuck up and this is the way it's going to be.  Look at Kiffin at Alabama.  Who thought that would have turned out as well as it has?  How much more oil and water does it get?  But he knows what he's doing and gets the job done.  When you work with people, you know who the doers and who the idiots are.  For the most part, Tuberville had solid coaches on his staff.  Maybe they didn't get along because after he got there, they found out Franklin was a moron.  I don't know.  Just hard to imagine that with new coaches rotating in and out over the years everything worked out OK, but Franklin come in and is a good OC and all of a sudden it's oil and water.  I just think that it's more of an indication that a bunch of people that know what they're doing realized this guy wasn't what the expectation was.  We will probably never know for sure.

[RWS]

In theory I agree.  However, you can't take an OL coarch that has leaned heavily on run blocking and ask him to go all Meercat pass block happy overnight.  This is exactly what happened with Hugh Nall in that case.

Again, this is where having worth a shit position coaches and re-tooling comes into play.  If your position coach is good, he can teach whatever.  It's just a matter of phasing in younger players that are more balanced.  As much as you may call Gus' offense pass happy, it relies heavily on the run as well.  Of course right now it's almost completely dependent on the run because of AU's current QB situation.

[GH2001]

That may be on Tuberville in the sense that, if true, he should have told his people to shut the fuck up and this is the way it's going to be.  Look at Kiffin at Alabama.  Who thought that would have turned out as well as it has?  How much more oil and water does it get?  But he knows what he's doing and gets the job done.  When you work with people, you know who the doers and who the idiots are.  For the most part, Tuberville had solid coaches on his staff.  Maybe they didn't get along because after he got there, they found out Franklin was a moron.  I don't know.  Just hard to imagine that with new coaches rotating in and out over the years everything worked out OK, but Franklin come in and is a good OC and all of a sudden it's oil and water.  I just think that it's more of an indication that a bunch of people that know what they're doing realized this guy wasn't what the expectation was.  We will probably never know for sure.

Franklin was forced to mesh with a bunch of offensive coaches that were a total 180 of his style, and resented him. HUGE difference. And I think most of that was due to Tubs loyalty, mainly to Nall.

Franklin has done fine everywhere else.

[Snaggletiger]

Franklin was forced to mesh with a bunch of offensive coaches that were a total 180 of his style, and resented him. HUGE difference. And I think most of that was due to Tubs loyalty, mainly to Nall.

Franklin has done fine everywhere else.

He was no Scot Loeffler

[GH2001]

He was no Scot Loeffler

Well, noooooo! I mean, lets not get crazy.

[jmar]

The most economical way to improve your situation is to catch lightning in a bottle. This way you get to keep Les while not paying an astronomical buyout. The entire program suffers far less upheaval with the staff, the current players and the incoming recruiting class to just pay a ringer a quarter mill to lead you to the promised land. Get two signal callers while your at it. All Les has to do then is to stay out of the majority of the playcalling so the OC looks like a genius.

[Buzz Killington]

He was no Scot Loeffler

You mean Tom's BFF?

[GH2001]

You mean Tom's BFF?

Kurt Busch's twin.

[Townhallsavoy]

I hope they're morons. I hope they spend $25 million dollars and hire Paul Rhoads.

[GH2001]

And this couldn't go in the other two threads because...?

I hope they're morons. I hope they spend $25 million dollars and hire Paul Rhoads.

Chizik! He's due now. Ready for the big time again.   

[RWS]

And this couldn't go in the other two threads because...?

I hope they're morons. I hope they spend $25 million dollars and hire Paul Rhoads.

And there's the rub.  There's no denying that Miles has slipped and he doesn't have the same magic that he used to have.  But who are you going to go get?  Who is that rock star coach out there that can handle the pressure of "Hey, you're hired and you need to win a championship right now." while playing in the SEC West?