Today is the day all of you gay Xers unite!

[CCTAU]

Well we know that today Alabama is supposed to issue same sex marriage licenses. Some of us don't care, other of us know it is wrong and is allowing the legitimization of a sinful lifestyle.

There are those on both sides. I am on the anti-side, but I do not hate or want to crush these individuals out of existence. I think it is OK to say "you are wrong and you are loved" at the same time.

Here is an enlightening article not full of hate on the subject:

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-homosexuality-is-not-like-other-sins

[Snaggletiger]

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

[CCTAU]

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

Sin is very clearly defined all throughout the bible. And Jesus continually rebuked sin. He also rebuked the sinner if the sinner did not repent from the sin. He did not reside or continue to reside with those who continued in a sinful lifestyle.

If you are looking for the "don't do it" passage written in red, I think you misunderstand his purpose.

The article does a good job putting all of this into perspective.

[WiregrassTiger]

WT believes that homersexuality is a sin. WT also knows that coveting yo wives is a sin too, along with quite a few other transgressions WT has participated in.

But, I do not deny that I don't agree with the lifestyle, however, I fully support you gays in living the life that you want. So long as you don't pinch me in the ass. I will knock a pop knot on your head.

[Jumbo]

I say let everyone have the chance to be miserable.

[RottenBottom]

But, I do not deny that I don't agree with the lifestyle, however, I fully support you gays in living the life that you want. So long as you don't pinch me in the ass. I will knock a pop knot on your head.

Don't flatter yourself.

[Snaggletiger]

Jesus did not address teh gayness.  Paul did but in the same breath, told people to be kind to their slaves.  There are tons of instructions from Paul, a mortal man, that are referencing the issues of the times.  And in that particular time and place, you would be stoned to death for washing your camel on Sunday or saying "That lovely piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah."

I consider myself a Christian but not one that takes every word of the Bible literally, especially when 90% of it is man's interpretation of how they thought things should be during a time period and an area of the world where thinking and things in general were and still are as F'd up as it gets.  Jesus laid out a pretty simple plan for living a Christian life, which all centers around treating everyone around you the way you want to be treated yourself.

That's about as deep as I get.  And while there are a lot of issues in the world that I take a stand against, this isn't one of them.  I don't think it's a lifestyle choice and as for it being a sin, that's not my concern.  Just because Paul said don't have ghey butt secks, doesn't mean that's what God or his Son thinks.  As for them having the opportunity to get married and be entitled to the same rights as any other married couple, well, that doesn't concern me in the least either.  It doesn't affect me in any way. It doesn't infringe on any of my rights and as far as I can tell, doesn't trample on any rights any of you have.

I just don't see the problem.  It's not for me to judge and if it truly turns out to be a sin that will keep someone out of heaven, then I guess that's their problem.  If you're murdering people or stealing from folks or selling drugs to kids etc.  I got a problem with it. If you're attracted to the ghey butt secks, whatever. 

BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.   

[Townhallsavoy]

I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today.  I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office.  Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music. 

[GH2001]

I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today.  I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office.  Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music.

You capitalist bastard. I like it.

[Ogre]

Jesus did not address teh gayness.  Paul did but in the same breath, told people to be kind to their slaves.  There are tons of instructions from Paul, a mortal man, that are referencing the issues of the times.  And in that particular time and place, you would be stoned to death for washing your camel on Sunday or saying "That lovely piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah."

I consider myself a Christian but not one that takes every word of the Bible literally, especially when 90% of it is man's interpretation of how they thought things should be during a time period and an area of the world where thinking and things in general were and still are as F'd up as it gets.  Jesus laid out a pretty simple plan for living a Christian life, which all centers around treating everyone around you the way you want to be treated yourself.

That's about as deep as I get.  And while there are a lot of issues in the world that I take a stand against, this isn't one of them.  I don't think it's a lifestyle choice and as for it being a sin, that's not my concern.  Just because Paul said don't have ghey butt secks, doesn't mean that's what God or his Son thinks.  As for them having the opportunity to get married and be entitled to the same rights as any other married couple, well, that doesn't concern me in the least either.  It doesn't affect me in any way. It doesn't infringe on any of my rights and as far as I can tell, doesn't trample on any rights any of you have.

I just don't see the problem.  It's not for me to judge and if it truly turns out to be a sin that will keep someone out of heaven, then I guess that's their problem.  If you're murdering people or stealing from folks or selling drugs to kids etc.  I got a problem with it. If you're attracted to the ghey butt secks, whatever. 

BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.
 

You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass.  You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.

Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on?  Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest? 
 
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21:  "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."  The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men. 

And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.  However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.'  So they are no longer two but one flesh."  To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.) 

I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other.  I really don't.  I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit.  What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.

It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian. 

[dallaswareagle]

I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today.  I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office.  Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music.

They may not have hired you with you not being gay and all. Cause you know they have a right not to.

[CCTAU]

What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.

That seems to be the new wave of live and let live.

It matters not how you wish to try to rewrite the bible, sin is still sin. And on many occasions Jesus rebuked sin. he never wavered in that.

I have no problem giving the gays a way to have to same legal options as married people, I just don't want marriage to be redefined so as to make the gays feel their lifestyle is now accepted and legitimate. It is not.

And when someone wants to marry more than one person, allow that also. If three lesbians all want to be married and enjoy the benefits of filing jointly, print up that new box on the IRS forms. If I want to marry my cousin, sign that form.

If someone can choose to marry the same sex, then a lot more options should be open to those who FEEL they are right also.

[Snaggletiger]

You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass.  You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.

Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on?  Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest? 
 
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21:  "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."  The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men. 

And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.  However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.'  So they are no longer two but one flesh."  To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.) 

I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other.  I really don't.  I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit.  What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.

It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian.

I base my faith on the way Jesus taught us to live.  You spoke of God's original design, before sin entered the world.  That's a starting point of where some of the Bible needs to taken with the proverbial grain of salt for me. There's nothing more perfect than God.  He's all-knowing, all-powerful, all everything.  But if we're to believe the story of creation, which I do believe in creation, just not that story...we're to believe that God's very first, and only stab at making man was a colossal failure.  He puts the first man and woman on the earth and gives them one rule. Don't eat an apple from that tree.  Then a snake says it's okay.  So they do.  From that point on, the snake is doomed to slither around on his belly (Ever ask yourself how it was getting around before?) and mankind is doomed to sin, sickness, plague, famine, war etc.  God created something.  Then one mistake by that creation pisses him off so bad that He scraps the whole idea.  You folks are on your own from this point.  Oh, and you're nekkid. 

Okay. Got it.  That goes against everything that Christians believe God is.  He couldn't forgive them?

Not saying I don't believe the Bible.  Not saying that at all.  I believe Jesus was/is his Son and he was sent to show us how to live.  That's something real.. Something concrete.  But people who claim that every word in the Bible is from the Holy Spirit are cherry-picking more than I am.  Choosing to ignore or try to explain away things in there that are clearly not inspired by God and are a byproduct or even an indictment of the events, times and places in which they were written.         

[Kaos]

Here's the only thing that matters and we've addressed this before.   

We ALL sin.  We are all horrible, base, crass, vulgar beings.  We break rules every single day. The difference is we are all trying to do better. 

I don't have any problem with gays worshiping or coming to church.  Same as with adulterers, thieves, rapists, murderers or anybody else who's broken and looking for answers. 

The problem is when someone comes to the church (or into my life) and says essentially "Fuck you, I'm doing this and you HAVE to change the rules and accept me the way I am." 

I have a private club and one of the rules of membership is you have to wear ties to attend functions. Some assclown shows up in a sweatshirt.  Am I supposed to change the rules because that person doesn't like them?

The biggest problem I have is that we are now refusing to acknowledge that homosexuality is wrong, that "hey, I'm a dude but I'd rather have a vagina" is wrong, that all manner of other perversions are wrong.  I'm offended by people who insist that everyone has to accept their personal perversions as "normal." 

You bring up slavery like it's some big alpha-omega bugaboo that answers everything.  "People in the Bible had slaves, so DUH, Bible sucks bro!" 

Guess what?  The prohibition against slavery is man-made.  Slavery was a part of life for thousands of years.  It still is a part of life for many societies. Biblical references toward slavery are intended to show people how to properly treat those who serve them.  Not to condone it -- because slavery is a man-made institution -- but to guide men in treating other men in the right way. 

So what there were slaves and the Bible tells people how to treat them.  That was significantly relevant until the last 150 years (which is the blink of a historical eye and not relevant long-term).

The Bible addresses things as they are, not as we make them.  Long after our society has passed away there will be slaves.  Better that it's a part of the Bible than not. 

[RWS]

The problem is when someone comes to the church (or into my life) and says essentially "Fuck you, I'm doing this and you HAVE to change the rules and accept me the way I am."

I guess we never should have gotten rid of segregation.  Afterall, once rules are made they should never be changed.  No matter how much sense it makes.

I have a private club and one of the rules of membership is you have to wear ties to attend functions. Some assclown shows up in a sweatshirt.  Am I supposed to change the rules because that person doesn't like them?   

But we're not talking about a private church or a private club.  We're talking about the government denying a group of people basic rights based on nothing more than their sexual preference.  It's akin to denying interracial marriage in my opinion.

[WiregrassTiger]

BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.   

Why did you feel the need to put this at the end of this long ass post? It just kind if looked out of place. Unless you are trying to hook up with other men for gay butt sex? I guess?

gays blocked from heaven? I haven't read that. I also haven't read where my sin is any less than Charles Manson's, a serial killer or a lawyer. It's hard for me to understand how a great guy like myself is no better but apparently that's the way it works. At least the way that I understand it.

I don't have a problem with preachers pointing out sin. Just because I've been known to drink too much wine, look upon your wife in a seductive manner (just using this as an example probably) doesn't mean that I should excuse myself and pretend I think it's ok. Is it a better sin than gay butt sex? Not the way I understand it.

That's why I'm thinking there is more made out of this than warranted. There is plenty of sin to target. There is no need to call in the justice department for fear that you gays have a monopoly.

[Kaos]

I guess we never should have gotten rid of segregation.  Afterall, once rules are made they should never be changed.  No matter how much sense it makes.
But we're not talking about a private church or a private club.  We're talking about the government denying a group of people basic rights based on nothing more than their sexual preference.  It's akin to denying interracial marriage in my opinion.

You've suffered brain damage in your absence. 

Segregation = man-made situation.  No biblical basis. 

And we are talking about churches.  The term "marriage" brings that into it. 

Legalize sin?  Might as well condone all the rest, too.  Let's make murder legal.  There are biblically based laws against that. Obviously those are old and out of date in today's progressive society.  Make it legal and I'll go on a killing spree tomorrow. 

[War Eagle!!!]

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

I am pretty sure that Jesus was about loving each other...but I could be wrong...

[War Eagle!!!]

You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass.  You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.

Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on?  Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest? 
 
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21:  "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."  The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men. 

And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.  However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.'  So they are no longer two but one flesh."  To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.) 

I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other.  I really don't.  I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit.  What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.

It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian.

I have a hard time believing that every single one of the people responsible for writings in the bible were 100% Godly men. We have seen agendas throughout the church far before Jesus was born.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the only way to heaven is through him. However, I have a hard time believing in any mortal man. Mortal man are sinners and mortal man "wrote" the bible. I am not sure how anyone can believe that everything in there is 100% from God when none of us really knew any of these men's hearts. The only thing you know is what you have read...from other men...

[CCTAU]

I have a hard time believing that every single one of the people responsible for writings in the bible were 100% Godly men. We have seen agendas throughout the church far before Jesus was born.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the only way to heaven is through him. However, I have a hard time believing in any mortal man. Mortal man are sinners and mortal man "wrote" the bible. I am not sure how anyone can believe that everything in there is 100% from God when none of us really knew any of these men's hearts. The only thing you know is what you have read...from other men...

Hmm. Faith. You missed it.