Big Game Saturday Part Duex 10.11.14

[jmar]

We now run an up tempo read option only it isn't very up tempo and the read portion seems more pre-determined. Absent is the smashmouth version of the HUNH with far more pulling guards and the ever present motion that often presented problems for the opposition. And now we are predictable.

JMO but I think since the end of last season Malzahn expected the defense to be far better-which it had been up until the early hole we dug for ourselves this past Saturday in Starkville. check
*Garrett returning, Reed moves to CB, Lawson has surgery before fall camp, Whitehead suspended indefinitely.

Lashlee worked with Marshall's footwork in the off season to improve the QB's accuracy. check
*Duke Williams came on board to pair with Sammy Coates. check
*Look at Duke, what a talent! Coates now playing through knee injury.

We lost Prosch and Robinson and didn't have a like replacement in line for either. check
*Troubled H-Back/TE Parks booted, reserve FB Batten knee injury, starting guard Kozan knee injury.
*The quality depth of the offensive line remains suspect as witnessed by the lack of substitutions.

I think Gus committed to more of a finesse type spread thinking we could pull it off with the expectations of improvement by the defense, a better passing game with the possibility that the same hardnosed mentality would still exist with our run game...which it hasn't. In fact we seem to continually put ourselves behind the chains with incompletions, mental errors, dropped/batted balls, missed blocks, penalties and odd play calls. We seem to lack that flow we once had although statistics seem to indicate otherwise. Whatever it is, it's very frustrating to watch. 

Understand maybe streamlining to a more simplified attack-after all, the team that beat us in the BCSCG ran something similar to what we have now with success and they didn't have a running threat at QB like Auburn. Not saying Johnson isn't my preferred choice at this point, only that Nick is this team's QB.


 

 

 

[wesfau2]

We now run an up tempo read option only it isn't very up tempo and the read portion seems more pre-determined. Absent is the smashmouth version of the HUNH with far more pulling guards and the ever present motion that often presented problems for the opposition. And now we are predictable.

JMO but I think since the end of last season Malzahn expected the defense to be far better-which it had been up until the early hole we dug for ourselves this past Saturday in Starkville. check
*Garrett returning, Reed moves to CB, Lawson has surgery before fall camp, Whitehead suspended indefinitely.

Lashlee worked with Marshall's footwork in the off season to improve the QB's accuracy. check
*Duke Williams came on board to pair with Sammy Coates. check
*Look at Duke, what a talent! Coates now playing through knee injury.

We lost Prosch and Robinson and didn't have a like replacement in line for either. check
*Troubled H-Back/TE Parks booted, reserve FB Batten knee injury, starting guard Kozan knee injury.
*The quality depth of the offensive line remains suspect as witnessed by the lack of substitutions.

I think Gus committed to more of a finesse type spread thinking we could pull it off with the expectations of improvement by the defense, a better passing game with the possibility that the same hardnosed mentality would still exist with our run game...which it hasn't. In fact we seem to continually put ourselves behind the chains with incompletions, mental errors, dropped/batted balls, missed blocks, penalties and odd play calls. We seem to lack that flow we once had although statistics seem to indicate otherwise. Whatever it is, it's very frustrating to watch. 

Understand maybe streamlining to a more simplified attack-after all, the team that beat us in the BCSCG ran something similar to what we have now with success and they didn't have a running threat at QB like Auburn. Not saying Johnson isn't my preferred choice at this point, only that Nick is this team's QB.

If your whole premise begins with it being the defense's fault, then you're way off base.

[Townhallsavoy]

If your whole premise begins with it being the defense's fault, then you're way off base.

Not that I blame you for this, but I don't think you understood his post. 

I think he was saying Gus expected the defense to be better, which it has (hence the "check").  But Gus also expected the offense to be less run-based and more finesse with the addition of players like Duke Williams and with the improvement of Marshall's passing game, which also received a "check." 

But the reason why we struggled is because we've lost the power running game that kickstarts the offense and controls the clock.  Further, we're making too many mental errors throughout games making it difficult to showcase how much we've improved. 

[Saniflush]

Further, we're making too many mental errors throughout games making it difficult to showcase how much we've improved.

This is all of it in a nutshell.  Execution is paramount!

[wesfau2]

Not that I blame you for this, but I don't think you understood his post. 

This thing reads like stereo instructions.

[Saniflush]

This thing reads like stereo instructions.

I'm feeling a little, ooh, anxious if you know what I mean. It's been about six hundred years after all. I wonder where a guy, an everyday Joe like myself, can find a little, "action".

[wesfau2]

I'm feeling a little, ooh, anxious if you know what I mean. It's been about six hundred years after all. I wonder where a guy, an everyday Joe like myself, can find a little, "action".

You've been to Mars?
I've been to Mars!

Whoa...sand worms.  You hate 'em right? 
I hate 'em, too!

I tell ya, pal, we're sympatico here!

[GH2001]

Not that I blame you for this, but I don't think you understood his post. 

I think he was saying Gus expected the defense to be better, which it has (hence the "check").  But Gus also expected the offense to be less run-based and more finesse with the addition of players like Duke Williams and with the improvement of Marshall's passing game, which also received a "check." 

But the reason why we struggled is because we've lost the power running game that kickstarts the offense and controls the clock.  Further, we're making too many mental errors throughout games making it difficult to showcase how much we've improved.

I really really think losing Kozan and Prosch has everything to do with why.

I think jmar also hit on something with lack of pulling guards. I'm starting to think Gus knows the limitations of this OL right now. Thus the more finesse look. Against LSU or a weaker team we can get away with zone read more and control the LOS. Against a very sound and physical front like MSU, our OL can't control the LOS as well. It makes sense a little more now. Still not sure why we wouldnt use JJ though SOME on some passing series.

[jmar]

Not that I blame you for this, but I don't think you understood his post. 

I think he was saying Gus expected the defense to be better, which it has (hence the "check").  But Gus also expected the offense to be less run-based and more finesse with the addition of players like Duke Williams and with the improvement of Marshall's passing game, which also received a "check." 

But the reason why we struggled is because we've lost the power running game that kickstarts the offense and controls the clock.  Further, we're making too many mental errors throughout games making it difficult to showcase how much we've improved.

Yes and thanks for the clarification. Been up all night.

[Snaggletiger]

I think the offense is fine for the most part. Obviously shot themselves in the foot early on and made a couple of other crucial "mistakes" in Sammie stepping out and the phantom offensive pass interference.  The biggest problem to me was the performance, or lack thereof, in the red zone.  We couldn't punch it in and settling for FG's never allowed us to put pressure on them.  We stayed 2-3 scores down all day. 

As far as the offense is concerned, I'd just like to see them tweak or maybe add a couple of things.  Hard to fault Artimus Pyle when he's averaging 110 yards a game.  Just think a few more carries for Roc would be good.  He's hits the hole quick like djsimp and looks to be more of a threat to break out in the open.  Plus, it'd loosen things up if they could get Uzoamababa the ball more on short stuff.  He's averaging 1 catch a game.   

[Godfather]

You've been to Mars?
I've been to Mars!

Whoa...sand worms.  You hate 'em right? 
I hate 'em, too!

I tell ya, pal, we're sympatico here!

Saniflush....Saniflush....Saniflush

[CCTAU]

We now run an up tempo read option only it isn't very up tempo and the read portion seems more pre-determined. 

Nothing else that you wrote mattered. If this offense will truly run as a reap option offense, NM's legs will cover up a lot of those issues. When he runs, we win. Period.

The option is not being read this season like it was last season.

If you can look at last seasons running plays and tell me the majority of those plays were pre determined, then you(not you personally) have no idea what an option looks like.

The option is run to help overcome some of the deficiencies listed. If it is not being utilized, let JJ hand off. at least he can see over the line, make the middle throws, and keep the LBs on their heels so we can run up the middle.

I love last year's NM. this year's NM seems to be benign in comparison from a read option standpoint.

[Godfather]

I think the offense is fine for the most part. Obviously shot themselves in the foot early on and made a couple of other crucial "mistakes" in Sammie stepping out and the phantom offensive pass interference.  The biggest problem to me was the performance, or lack thereof, in the red zone.  We couldn't punch it in and settling for FG's never allowed us to put pressure on them.  We stayed 2-3 scores down all day. 

We run the ball down the field and then throw the ball 3 times.  Sometimes we are too cute for our own good.

[jmar]

I really really think losing Kozan and Prosch has everything to do with why.

I think jmar also hit on something with lack of pulling guards. I'm starting to think Gus knows the limitations of this OL right now. Thus the more finesse look. Against LSU or a weaker team we can get away with zone read more and control the LOS. Against a very sound and physical front like MSU, our OL can't control the LOS as well. It makes sense a little more now. Still not sure why we wouldnt use JJ though SOME on some passing series.

I'm for putting JJ in for several series myself. We can't know that he wouldn't have been hurried or sacked like Nick (13 and 3) unless we see him moving in the pocket against a good defense. But we have seen JJ make his progressions and throw underneath when nothing was there rather than force it deep as Nick has. Team might play a little sharper and make fewer mistakes.
Never stopped us from running that miserable wildcat. 

[CCTAU]

I'm for putting JJ in for several series myself. We can't know that he wouldn't have been hurried or sacked like Nick (13 and 3) unless we see him moving in the pocket against a good defense. But we have seen JJ make his progressions and throw underneath when nothing was there rather than force it deep as Nick has. Team might play a little sharper and make fewer mistakes.
Never stopped us from running that miserable wildcat.

I think that is all any of us want. I'm not sure I want to see JJ start and try to carry the team. But just let him come in and see if that changes the complexion of the game. If that becomes a successful option, then team have to get ready for two different style QBs.  Its hard enough to game plan for one.

[WiregrassTiger]

We now run an up tempo read option only it isn't very up tempo and the read portion seems more pre-determined. Absent is the smashmouth version of the HUNH with far more pulling guards and the ever present motion that often presented problems for the opposition. And now we are predictable.

JMO but I think since the end of last season Malzahn expected the defense to be far better-which it had been up until the early hole we dug for ourselves this past Saturday in Starkville. check
*Garrett returning, Reed moves to CB, Lawson has surgery before fall camp, Whitehead suspended indefinitely.

Lashlee worked with Marshall's footwork in the off season to improve the QB's accuracy. check
*Duke Williams came on board to pair with Sammy Coates. check
*Look at Duke, what a talent! Coates now playing through knee injury.

We lost Prosch and Robinson and didn't have a like replacement in line for either. check
*Troubled H-Back/TE Parks booted, reserve FB Batten knee injury, starting guard Kozan knee injury.
*The quality depth of the offensive line remains suspect as witnessed by the lack of substitutions.

I think Gus committed to more of a finesse type spread thinking we could pull it off with the expectations of improvement by the defense, a better passing game with the possibility that the same hardnosed mentality would still exist with our run game...which it hasn't. In fact we seem to continually put ourselves behind the chains with incompletions, mental errors, dropped/batted balls, missed blocks, penalties and odd play calls. We seem to lack that flow we once had although statistics seem to indicate otherwise. Whatever it is, it's very frustrating to watch. 

Understand maybe streamlining to a more simplified attack-after all, the team that beat us in the BCSCG ran something similar to what we have now with success and they didn't have a running threat at QB like Auburn. Not saying Johnson isn't my preferred choice at this point, only that Nick is this team's QB.

One thing that I would add to this is O line play. I think we all thought that we would automatically get better with so many returning, rather than regress. Regardless of the reasons, we aren't getting the push we had last year. This has been a bigger surprise to me than all of the above.

[jmar]

Nothing else that you wrote mattered. If this offense will truly run as a reap option offense, NM's legs will cover up a lot of those issues. When he runs, we win. Period.

The option is not being read this season like it was last season.

If you can look at last seasons running plays and tell me the majority of those plays were pre determined, then you(not you personally) have no idea what an option looks like.

The option is run to help overcome some of the deficiencies listed. If it is not being utilized, let JJ hand off. at least he can see over the line, make the middle throws, and keep the LBs on their heels so we can run up the middle.

I love last year's NM. this year's NM seems to be benign in comparison from a read option standpoint.

I personally understand the reads because we ran the veer which the read was off the end  (5-2 defenses being prevalent then) wishbone read was generally the tackle.
NM is failing at the meshpoint but there are only two choices (we had a pitch man following) Mine would often run to the post office when I needed him.

Nick is pussy footing and not turning it on like he did last season.
But the seal blocks that yielded the longer runs aren't there either.
Duke blocks when Duke wants to block and Louis just pisses me off.
Grant needs one real block to get to the finish line and can't get it. He's a fucking bullet. No excuse for this guy not making a D shit its pants at least once every game. 

Anyway I think JJ would utilize all of the receivers that work to get open and find them whereas Nick buys time, routes are broken off to where he can see a guy running deep but not much else. In the pocket he has no clue as to what is happening on the few sideline routes and shallow crosses we do run. And even if we ran those more he would trust his arm but wouldn't spot a converging safety.
 


   

[dallaswareagle]

I personally understand the reads because we ran the veer which the read was off the end  (5-2 defenses being prevalent then) wishbone read was generally the tackle.
NM is failing at the meshpoint but there are only two choices (we had a pitch man following) Mine would often run to the post office when I needed him.

Nick is pussy footing and not turning it on like he did last season.
But the seal blocks that yielded the longer runs aren't there either.
Duke blocks when Duke wants to block and Louis just pisses me off.
Grant needs one real block to get to the finish line and can't get it. He's a fucking bullet. No excuse for this guy not making a D shit its pants at least once every game. 

Anyway I think JJ would utilize all of the receivers that work to get open and find them whereas Nick buys time, routes are broken off to where he can see a guy running deep but not much else. In the pocket he has no clue as to what is happening on the few sideline routes and shallow crosses we do run. And even if we ran those more he would trust his arm but wouldn't spot a converging safety.
 
 

Not just you. He Jake Holland on offense. 

[WiregrassTiger]

Anyway I think JJ would utilize all of the receivers that work to get open and find them whereas Nick buys time, routes are broken off to where he can see a guy running deep but not much else. In the pocket he has no clue as to what is happening on the few sideline routes and shallow crosses we do run. And even if we ran those more he would trust his arm but wouldn't spot a converging safety. 

I wonder about his ability to see the field. I wish he would get out of the pocket more and ad lib. We seen to be better with that and don't have the trouble with batted balls.

[CCTAU]

Where is the quick out route we used to run? Throw it a couple of times and then fake it and run deep.

We killed people with that in 09 and 10. And NM definitely has  the arm to throw it.

I would much rather wee that than the 42 WR screens we throw.

Duke on the out route for 5 yds would drive a defense crazy.