Commander in Chief...

[ssgaufan]

But if we want to talk about disrespect for the military, I'd say that it's disrespectful to offer a salute of any kind.  Afterall, it's a violation of military protocol for a non-military member to give a salute, and even if you've previously served, you are not to salute while in civilian clothing.

  

[WiregrassTiger]

I stand at attention when I'm served by the ladies in uniform at Hooters.

[bgreene]

As President, you know that there will be Marines waiting every time you step off an airplane or helicopter, and that they will be saluting.  Making a choice to hold a dog, scared or not, is no different than making a choice to hold a coffee.  Both will impede you from making a "proper" salute, and if failing to properly salute is a sign of disrespect, then both are guilty.

But if we want to talk about disrespect for the military, I'd say that it's disrespectful to offer a salute of any kind.  Afterall, it's a violation of military protocol for a non-military member to give a salute, and even if you've previously served, you are not to salute while in civilian clothing.

The President is not non-military.  The President is the Commander in Chief of the military.  He is the boss.

Federal law has changed on saluting as a former military member or member not in uniform.

WASHINGTON -- Veterans and active-duty military not in uniform can now render the military-style hand salute during the playing of the national anthem, thanks to changes in federal law that took effect this month.
“The military salute is a unique gesture of respect that marks those who have served in our nation’s armed forces,” said Secretary of Veterans Affairs Dr. James B. Peake. “This provision allows the application of that honor in all events involving our nation’s flag.”
The new provision improves upon a little known change in federal law last year that authorized veterans to render the military-style hand salute during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, but it did not address salutes during the national anthem.  Last year’s provision also applied to members of the armed forces while not in uniform.
Traditionally, members of the nation’s veterans service organizations have rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag while wearing their organization’s official head-gear. 
The most recent change, authorizing hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel, was sponsored by Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, an Army veteran.  It was included in the Defense Authorization Act of 2009, which President Bush signed on Oct. 14. 
The earlier provision authorizing hand-salutes for veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, was contained in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, which took effect Jan. 28, 2008.

http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609

 

I agree that you know you are walking out whatever door, and there will be a Marine(s) standing outside that door.  You also know that they will salute you.  I understand that you may have shitty days, but so do those Marines, and they are still saluting your ass either way. 

[Vandy Vol]

The President is not non-military.  The President is the Commander in Chief of the military.  He is the boss.

I'm not sure what you mean by "non-military."  Obviously he has some constitutional control over the nation's military, but he's not in the military, and is thus not military personnel that is required or entitled to salute.  Which is exactly why Eisenhower never saluted soldiers while in a presidential capacity, despite his previous stint as a five star general.  It's also why John Kline, a 25 year veteran of the USMC, advised Reagan that it went against protocol for the President to return a salute.

There's nothing within the constitution or any federal law that I'm aware of that plainly states that the President is or is not "military personnel," so on its face, it seems like a somewhat murky area.  However, the Department of Defense's directives state that military personnel are prohibited from sponsoring a political club, writing anything that solicits votes for a political cause, or speaking at any event that promotes a political movement.  If the President were technically considered as being in the military simply because he's Commander In Chief, then he'd have issues running for re-election based on that prohibition.

There is federal case law, however, which states that the Secretary of War is a civilian position, not a military one, thus giving credence to the line of thought that an elected official serves in the capacity of a civilian, even if they have oversight or control of the military (United States v. Burns).  And there is also federal case law which broadly states that ultimate control and oversight of the military is civilian in nature (Duncan v. Kahanamoku).



TL;DR - Just because the title "Commander In Chief" sounds military does not mean that the President is actually military personnel.

Federal law has changed on saluting as a former military member or member not in uniform.

Only in instances involving the nation's flag and during the national anthem, neither of which are in play here.

[Saniflush]

What about Hee Haw?

Mmmmm. Hee Haw girls!  Well minus Minnie Pearl and that ole big'un.

[bgreene]

I was not saying that the President is required to salute.  You stated that it was improper for former military to salute while not in uniform. 

As for the video, my point is that if you are going to salute, TAKE THE FUCKING COFFEE OUT OF YOUR HAND AND RENDER A PROPER SALUTE!!

When my grandfather passed away last year (a veteran of the Korean war), my two brothers and I performed the flag ceremony at the graveside.  All three of us previously served in the Marines, and all three of us in civilian attire rendered a salute and were in the right for doing so.  Even without the national anthem playing.

All I am saying is to show some respect for military personnel.  I don't care if you are the president, or the local dirtbag.

[GH2001]

You guys enjoy getting your panties in a wad over this while the world crumbles...

[Buzz Killington]

For you GH...

[AUTiger1]

You guys enjoy getting your panties in a wad over this while the world crumbles...

Was about to say, has it become so down the line that we are going to nit pick a video and a picture of two different presidents giving half assed salutes? 

Fuck me, no wonder this country (and the world) is in the shitter.

[Vandy Vol]

You stated that it was improper for former military to salute while not in uniform.

And it is generally improper.  There are only two specific instances in which it is proper, and neither of those instances are in play here, which was my point:  By protocol, a President in civilian's clothing stepping off of an aircraft should not be returning a salute.

As for the video, my point is that if you are going to salute, TAKE THE FUCKING COFFEE OUT OF YOUR HAND AND RENDER A PROPER SALUTE!!

Was it an improper salute?  Sure.  A sign of disrespect for the military?  Probably not intentional, but my main point was that if an improper salute is disrespectful regardless of the person's intent, then be consistent in berating each President for giving improper salutes.  I don't recall conservatives making a shitstorm out of Bush's improper salute while carrying a dog.

When my grandfather passed away last year (a veteran of the Korean war), my two brothers and I performed the flag ceremony at the graveside.  All three of us previously served in the Marines, and all three of us in civilian attire rendered a salute and were in the right for doing so.  Even without the national anthem playing.

I believe a flag ceremony would be considered an event that involves the flag, and thus is proper according to the recent federal law you referenced.

Regardless, I'm not advocating that no one who is not in military uniform ever salute.  However, when people start getting nit picky about what a "proper" salute is, you can't start cherry picking which sections of protocol governing proper salutes should be followed.

Can't salute with a latte because protocol says your hand must be free, and in order to show respect for the military, you have to give a proper salute?  I don't really care either way, fine with me if you want to take that stance...but that would also mean that you can't salute while not in military uniform (unless the flag is involved or the national anthem is playing), and you can't salute at all if you're not military personnel.  If breaking protocol is disrespectful, then it's disrespectful.

[bgreene]

I'm out

[CCTAU]

I'm out

Me too. Captain Anal Verbosity has arrived.

[Vandy Vol]

Me too. Captain Anal Verbosity has arrived.

[AUJarhead]

I'm out

Faster run time...  during PFT, or when the notice for colors plays?

[bgreene]

Colors did'nt bother me.  I was more of a ninja when avoiding brass.

[AUJarhead]

Colors did'nt bother me.  I was more of a ninja when avoiding brass.

I just carried something in both arms.

[bgreene]

The worst was throwing up the hand and then noticing that it's just some damn Cpl who has left his chevrons on his uniform when he was washing them.  Now the damn things glimmer when the sun hits them just enough to throw you off. (When it doubt, whip it out)

[Saniflush]

The worst was throwing up the hand and then noticing that it's just some damn Cpl who has left his chevrons on his uniform when he was washing them.  Now the damn things glimmer when the sun hits them just enough to throw you off. (When it doubt, whip it out)

Nah the worst is missing a salute of a Navy dipshit officer when you thought it was a chief because of those dumbass fat people khakis that they wear.  I mean granted they rarely rate a salute anyway but talk about your little bitches when they don't get one.

[bgreene]

Nah the worst is missing a salute of a Navy dipshit officer when you thought it was a chief because of those dumbass fat people khakis that they wear.  I mean granted they rarely rate a salute anyway but talk about your little bitches when they don't get one.

All of their rank is brass.  Very confrusing.