What are your thoughts on solving student loan debt?

[Townhallsavoy]

I guess that's a loaded question. Maybe you don't feel student loan debt needs to be solved. 

Elizabeth Warren has been attempting to put this issue at the forefront:

Warren's bills range from pie-in-the-sky progressive – she called for college loans to be issued at the same, nearly free, interest rates that Wall Street banks receive from the Fed – to soberly bipartisan. Her proposal to refinance outstanding student-loan debt at less than four percent interest (financed by a new minimum tax on America's top earners) nearly cleared the Senate in June, and will return to the Senate floor for a new vote this fall. "This country invests in tax loopholes for billionaires," she says. "And forces college students to pay for them through higher interest rates on their loans. That makes no sense at all."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-student-loan-crusader-how-elizabeth-warren-wants-to-reduce-debt-20140820#ixzz3BP8rvzy9

Her solution like many Democrats is to just tax the shit out of rich people and give the extra money to poor people.  My issue with that idea is that the money usually doesn't go directly to the people it was promised to go to. 

[GH2001]

Its just like people who got into houses they couldn't afford with sub prime mortgages (with the strong  pushing by govt of course). Its ultimately the person who signs their name on the dotted line. I know that sounds harsh but its true. I was able to put myself through AU and came out in the end with a tiny bit of a surplus to spare. My parents werent rich. Not even close. I wasn't on scholarship. But I did work when I was able to part time (and full time when school wasn't in session). And I did plan ahead of time and saved money, and stuck to my budget like a hawk. It required living in a 1 bed room eff apt and eating a lot of ramen and white bread, driving a shitty car and walking a lot. It required having 31 bucks in my acct knowing I had to make it last until the weekend.

The new poor now is some of the problem. They want to have a new car, big tv, the great cable package, starbucks twice a week, eating at Amersterdamn Cafe weekly, etc etc.  Students also seem to stay in school longer.

The cure for student debt is not to accumulate it in mass quantities in the first place. And yes, it can be done with proper saving, planning and discipline. Its just easier now to get a 40K loan at 19% interest and ask someone else to forgive it later. I just cant go along with that.

Disclaimer: I am by no means saying the lenders are not somewhat predatory. They certainly are. This is how they make money...BUT, you do ultimately make that choice to borrow money, just like with anything else. And you agree to pay it back under their terms. If they sell you one thing and give you another, then shame on them. But with all the oversight and regulations in place today, they shouldn't be happening much. If it does, somebody will be getting in trouble.

 The solution is not to tax the shit out of those who were responsible to forgive the debts of those who were not. That is backwards as hell. And frankly, whats the message sent?

[smooth_operator]

Its just like people who got into houses they couldn't afford with sub prime mortgages (with the strong  pushing by govt of course). Its ultimately the person who signs their name on the dotted line. I know that sounds harsh but its true. I was able to put myself through AU and came out in the end with a tiny bit of a surplus to spare. My parents werent rich. Not even close. I wasn't on scholarship. But I did work when I was able to part time (and full time when school wasn't in session). And I did plan ahead of time and saved money, and stuck to my budget like a hawk. It required living in a 1 bed room eff apt and eating a lot of ramen and white bread, driving a shootty car and walking a lot. It required having 31 bucks in my acct knowing I had to make it last until the weekend.

The new poor now is some of the problem. They want to have a new car, big tv, the great cable package, starbucks twice a week, eating at Amersterdamn Cafe weekly, etc etc.  Students also seem to stay in school longer.

The cure for student debt is not to accumulate it in mass quantities in the first place. And yes, it can be done with proper saving, planning and discipline. Its just easier now to get a 40K loan at 19% interest and ask someone else to forgive it later. I just cant go along with that.

Disclaimer: I am by no means saying the lenders are not somewhat predatory. They certainly are. This is how they make money...BUT, you do ultimately make that choice to borrow money, just like with anything else. And you agree to pay it back under their terms. If they sell you one thing and give you another, then shame on them. But with all the oversight and regulations in place today, they shouldn't be happening much. If it does, somebody will be getting in trouble.

 The solution is not to tax the shoot out of those who were responsible to forgive the debts of those who were not. That is backwards as hell. And frankly, whats the message sent?

Agreed. Although I will say my generation was really misled by schools, leaders and general advice. We were told "just get a degree" and "it doesn't matter what its for, just get the paper". A degree in any area was upheld as the secret the good life. Because of that a lot of 18 year old kids in my generation signed on the dotted line a racked up serious debt for useless degrees. My sister has a masters degree and she makes less than I do. My ex girlfriend graduated with a liberal arts degree and had to go back (ultimately achieving 60k in debt) just to get a damn job. So yeah, it was ultimately their fault but to me its almost a racket. Having an education is important, but having a lib arts education is not 60k important.

[Kaos]

The cure for student debt is not to accumulate it in mass quantities in the first place. And yes, it can be done with proper saving, planning and discipline. Its just easier now to get a 40K loan at 19% interest and ask someone else to forgive it later. I just cant go along with that.

[WiregrassTiger]

Its just like people who got into houses they couldn't afford with sub prime mortgages (with the strong  pushing by govt of course). Its ultimately the person who signs their name on the dotted line. I know that sounds harsh but its true. I was able to put myself through AU and came out in the end with a tiny bit of a surplus to spare. My parents werent rich. Not even close. I wasn't on scholarship. But I did work when I was able to part time (and full time when school wasn't in session). And I did plan ahead of time and saved money, and stuck to my budget like a hawk. It required living in a 1 bed room eff apt and eating a lot of ramen and white bread, driving a shootty car and walking a lot. It required having 31 bucks in my acct knowing I had to make it last until the weekend.

The new poor now is some of the problem. They want to have a new car, big tv, the great cable package, starbucks twice a week, eating at Amersterdamn Cafe weekly, etc etc.  Students also seem to stay in school longer.

The cure for student debt is not to accumulate it in mass quantities in the first place. And yes, it can be done with proper saving, planning and discipline. Its just easier now to get a 40K loan at 19% interest and ask someone else to forgive it later. I just cant go along with that.

Disclaimer: I am by no means saying the lenders are not somewhat predatory. They certainly are. This is how they make money...BUT, you do ultimately make that choice to borrow money, just like with anything else. And you agree to pay it back under their terms. If they sell you one thing and give you another, then shame on them. But with all the oversight and regulations in place today, they shouldn't be happening much. If it does, somebody will be getting in trouble.

 The solution is not to tax the shoot out of those who were responsible to forgive the debts of those who were not. That is backwards as hell. And frankly, whats the message sent?

^^This. You rarely make this much sense. And I will add, it's as if there is a PR war against the haves. I know people who have much nicer cars, much fancier houses and make much more money than I do. I don't think I'm jealous. I do wonder sometime how much debt they are in, if any but that's none of my bizwhacks. If they are happy, I'm happy for them.

But, there is a definite sense of entitlement that exists among many, in which they think that since that guy drives a Range Rover, I needs to drive a Range Rover. Like they've been swindled in some way.

Free Guvament stuff (whether it's forgiving loans or whatever) only adds to the sense of entitlement.  I do not only blame the people who benefit. The ultimate responsibility rests at the feet of the voters--which puts us in a horrible predicament.

[WiregrassTiger]

Agreed. Although I will say my generation was really misled by schools, leaders and general advice. We were told "just get a degree" and "it doesn't matter what its for, just get the paper". A degree in any area was upheld as the secret the good life. Because of that a lot of 18 year old kids in my generation signed on the dotted line a racked up serious debt for useless degrees. My sister has a masters degree and she makes less than I do. My ex girlfriend graduated with a liberal arts degree and had to go back (ultimately achieving 60k in debt) just to get a damn job. So yeah, it was ultimately their fault but to me its almost a racket. Having an education is important, but having a lib arts education is not 60k important.

^^This too. Most degrees are way over-rated esp today. Just look at how far the cost of college has outpaced everything else. And then, what one gets when they graduate. There aren't many jobs out there and most of the degrees are useless.

Kids are much better off learning a trade than obtaining most degrees. Unless someone is going into something that there is a demand for, get a 2 year and then learn a trade.

[GH2001]

Contrary to the popular narrative most people that HAVE - earned it. And they deserve to keep their spoils at the same rate as everyone else. That's real fairness. Everyone paying the same RATE. Progressive tax rates are just another way to scheme for wealth redistribution.

[Townhallsavoy]

Its just like people who got into houses they couldn't afford with sub prime mortgages (with the strong  pushing by govt of course). Its ultimately the person who signs their name on the dotted line. I know that sounds harsh but its true. I was able to put myself through AU and came out in the end with a tiny bit of a surplus to spare. My parents werent rich. Not even close. I wasn't on scholarship. But I did work when I was able to part time (and full time when school wasn't in session). And I did plan ahead of time and saved money, and stuck to my budget like a hawk. It required living in a 1 bed room eff apt and eating a lot of ramen and white bread, driving a shitty car and walking a lot. It required having 31 bucks in my acct knowing I had to make it last until the weekend.

The new poor now is some of the problem. They want to have a new car, big tv, the great cable package, starbucks twice a week, eating at Amersterdamn Cafe weekly, etc etc.  Students also seem to stay in school longer.

The cure for student debt is not to accumulate it in mass quantities in the first place. And yes, it can be done with proper saving, planning and discipline. Its just easier now to get a 40K loan at 19% interest and ask someone else to forgive it later. I just cant go along with that.

Disclaimer: I am by no means saying the lenders are not somewhat predatory. They certainly are. This is how they make money...BUT, you do ultimately make that choice to borrow money, just like with anything else. And you agree to pay it back under their terms. If they sell you one thing and give you another, then shame on them. But with all the oversight and regulations in place today, they shouldn't be happening much. If it does, somebody will be getting in trouble.

 The solution is not to tax the shit out of those who were responsible to forgive the debts of those who were not. That is backwards as hell. And frankly, whats the message sent?

Just thinking on paper here:

How much money though would you say it costs to get through college on your own? 

For an Alabama resident to attend Auburn, it's $10k for tuition and fees and an estimated $1200 for books and supplies per school year.  That's for 12 hours, which won't be enough to finish in four years.  But even if you did finish in four years, you need about $50k just for tuition and books alone.  How much is room?  Power bill?  Gas bill?  Food?   Issues like a car breaking down or needing new clothes?  New shoes? 

Could a student get by for four years on $25k for room and board?  That's $520/month for four years.  Know of any apartments or houses cheap enough that $520/month could leave you with enough money for food? 

So at the minimum, I'd say an undergraduate student could get through Auburn with $75k and would need approximately $1600/month to do so.  They'd be miserable, but at least it seems possible. 

If they found a job paying $10/hour and got 30 hours a week and worked 50 weeks a year, they would make $60k over the course of four years before taxes.  So because they're poor as shit, they probably wouldn't be taxed very much and we could say they would have $50k to spend on school. 

They would need a $25k loan at 19% or whatever high interest rate available.  That's with working some shit college job for 30 hours a week. 


I think what bothers me the most about placing pure blame on the students is that when you come to Auburn now, you get access to one of the most opulent displays of wealth on a college campus.  The new health and wellness center cost $72 million to construct and lord knows what its costs are to maintain.  Administrators are taking home hundreds of thousands of dollars.  I have to ask "why do we need some of these amenities when it's putting new college grads in a difficult position just to get an undergraduate degree?"  Should college be a strain on finances?  Should it be a place just for those that can afford it already or sacrifice enough to maneuver through without going into spiraling debt? 

Or maybe college's hardest part should be getting in and succeeding as a student. 

But I am seeing first hand how fucking retarded some people are.  I have fellow students in my cohort who are taking lavish trips over the summer.  One spent two weeks in Sweden.  One went with a high school buddy to Iceland for a week.  One took a month long hiking trip in Canada.  The way they bitch about not having enough money on a GTA stipend tells me that they're using some loaned cash to go on these trips.  Maybe not.  Maybe they have a money tree.

[AUTailgatingRules]

One of the major reasons that college expense has risen at such a fast pace is the easy access to money ("loans").  By over inflating the number of people that are able to attend due to easy access to loans, the government has artificially spiked the demand on the system. 

Because the government has bought in to the meme that everyone is entitled to access to college, colleges can charge whatever they want because the loan industry will loan whatever it costs.

In my day, you had to prove that your family could not afford to pay, you had to have good credit, you had to show a plan to the bank providing the loan ( kind of like a business plan) in order to even get a loan. 

I hate to be mean hearted, but everyone is NOT ENTITLED to a college education.  If you can't afford it, don't go.  If you can't afford it and decide to take out a loan, how about choosing a major that will land you a job that will pay enough to pay the loan back. 

OTHERWISE QUIT FUCKING WHINING ABOUT YOUR STUDENT LOAN DEBT

[smooth_operator]

One of the major reasons that college expense has risen at such a fast pace is the easy access to money "loans".  By over inflating the number of people that are able to attend due to easy access to loans, the government has artificially spiked the demand not he system. 

Because the government has bought in to the meme that everyone is entitled to access to college, colleges can charge whatever they want because the loan industry will loan whatever it costs.

In my day, you had to prove that your family could not afford to pay, you had to have good credit, you had to show a plan to the bank providing the loan ( kind of like a business plan) in order to even get a loan. 

I hate to be mean hearted, but everyone is NOT ENTITLED to a college education.  If you can't afford it, don't go.  If you can't afford it and decide to take out a loan, how about choosing a major that will land you a job that will pay enough to pay the loan back. 

OTHERWISE QUIT fudgeING WHINING ABOUT YOUR STUDENT LOAN DEBT

All true.. But if everyone up to and including the government is telling kids they are entitled and not to worry here's a handy dandy loan to help... Can you really blame them? These are kids. I know they're old enough to be in the military and vote but they're just kids.

[AUTailgatingRules]

All true.. But if everyone up to and including the government is telling kids they are entitled and not to worry here's a handy dandy loan to help... Can you really blame them? These are kids. I know they're old enough to be in the military and vote but they're just kids.

I blame their parents as much as I blame the kids.  But yes, I absolutely blame the kids. 

It's kind of like smoking.  If you don't know by now that smoking is bad for you, then I have no sympathy when you die of cancer

If kids don't know by now that student loan debt will be an undo burden on them after completing school, then I have no sympathy for them when they are basically bankrupt by the time they get their 1st job.

[WiregrassTiger]

I blame their parents as much as I blame the kids.  But yes, I absolutely blame the kids. 

It's kind of like smoking.  If you don't know by now that smoking is bad for you, then I have no sympathy when you die of cancer

If kids don't know by now that student loan debt will be an undo burden on them after completing school, then I have no sympathy for them when they are basically bankrupt by the time they get their 1st job.

I see where you are coming from, at the same time, I guess I'm somewhat of a bleeding heart when it comes to this one. Like Smoothie said, they are kids. And if there is no one at home to warn them about this dangerous and slippery slope, they will fall prey. Just like with the fancy car and more house than they can really afford on affordable monthly payments.

The cycle seems to be, easy credit backed by Uncle Sam until no one can afford to make the payments and then: BAM--the taxpayer bails all of the slackers out. It's with houses, college loans, etc.

But, if the loans stop--then the foul cries come from everywhere. Mostly from the black leaders, saying EVERYONE should be afforded the RIGHT to a college education.

Well, actually, no they shouldn't. Only the ones that can pay for it. Just like with cars, houses, etc.

[AUJarhead]

I hate to be mean hearted, but everyone is NOT ENTITLED to a college education.  If you can't afford it, don't go.  If you can't afford it and decide to take out a loan, how about choosing a major that will land you a job that will pay enough to pay the loan back. 

OTHERWISE QUIT FUCKING WHINING ABOUT YOUR STUDENT LOAN DEBT

The world needs ditch diggers, too.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for people who go to college and major in what is basically a hobby, and than bitch about not being able to find a job.

[smooth_operator]

I blame their parents as much as I blame the kids.  But yes, I absolutely blame the kids. 

It's kind of like smoking.  If you don't know by now that smoking is bad for you, then I have no sympathy when you die of cancer

If kids don't know by now that student loan debt will be an undo burden on them after completing school, then I have no sympathy for them when they are basically bankrupt by the time they get their 1st job.

I usually don't have a soft heart at all. And in general, I agree with a lot of what you've said but this is not at all like smoking.

In fact, it's the exact opposite. By the time these kids turn 18 they've been exposed to hours of anti smoking PSAs and tons of other anti-smoking data, which is good.
But they've been exposed to roughly the same amount of propaganda telling them they're worthless without a degree. And any degree will work. And it's easy, Uncle Sam will give you the money.
Now should they cry about it later? Probably not. Is it my responsibility to pay their way? Definitely not. Did the financial and to some degree scholarly world fuck em? Absolutely.

[GH2001]

Just thinking on paper here:

How much money though would you say it costs to get through college on your own? 

For an Alabama resident to attend Auburn, it's $10k for tuition and fees and an estimated $1200 for books and supplies per school year.  That's for 12 hours, which won't be enough to finish in four years.  But even if you did finish in four years, you need about $50k just for tuition and books alone.  How much is room?  Power bill?  Gas bill?  Food?   Issues like a car breaking down or needing new clothes?  New shoes? 

Could a student get by for four years on $25k for room and board?  That's $520/month for four years.  Know of any apartments or houses cheap enough that $520/month could leave you with enough money for food? 

So at the minimum, I'd say an undergraduate student could get through Auburn with $75k and would need approximately $1600/month to do so.  They'd be miserable, but at least it seems possible. 

If they found a job paying $10/hour and got 30 hours a week and worked 50 weeks a year, they would make $60k over the course of four years before taxes.  So because they're poor as shit, they probably wouldn't be taxed very much and we could say they would have $50k to spend on school. 

They would need a $25k loan at 19% or whatever high interest rate available.  That's with working some shit college job for 30 hours a week. 


I think what bothers me the most about placing pure blame on the students is that when you come to Auburn now, you get access to one of the most opulent displays of wealth on a college campus.  The new health and wellness center cost $72 million to construct and lord knows what its costs are to maintain.  Administrators are taking home hundreds of thousands of dollars.  I have to ask "why do we need some of these amenities when it's putting new college grads in a difficult position just to get an undergraduate degree?"  Should college be a strain on finances?  Should it be a place just for those that can afford it already or sacrifice enough to maneuver through without going into spiraling debt? 

Or maybe college's hardest part should be getting in and succeeding as a student. 

But I am seeing first hand how fucking retarded some people are.  I have fellow students in my cohort who are taking lavish trips over the summer.  One spent two weeks in Sweden.  One went with a high school buddy to Iceland for a week.  One took a month long hiking trip in Canada.  The way they bitch about not having enough money on a GTA stipend tells me that they're using some loaned cash to go on these trips.  Maybe not.  Maybe they have a money tree.

I don't have my exact numbers for you, but I did pull it off. I worked about 25-30 hours a week. Mostly on weekends. I worked 50 a week when not in school. My apt was dirt cheap. I had a car paid for. Piece of shit but it ran and it cost nothing but gas which I avoided mostly since I walked and biked to class. I ate on the cheap. Literally ate pieces of Kroger brand bread and noodles most nights.

I also had an apt where Elec and Water were included in the rent. I also started off college with a nest egg I saved up. I put my ducks in a row before the college fest started and was ahead of the 8 ball. I had advisors try to steer me to lenders. Hell I remember when they used to set up in front of Foy and in other places begging people to borrow money. National Guard would do the same thing except for the borrowing thing. Both were basically preying on kids who needed money or were being told to think they needed the money more than they did.

It can be done but the bad part is that the money giver outers paint an easier path for opposed to the alternative. They don't really fill them in on the pain in the ass its gonna be to pay it back. "Oh, yeah, well you'll be able to pay that off easy your first year working. You'll have X degree and be all rich and making bank. Don't worry about it."  - "Sounds good, where do I sign".

Good parents and advisors need to get to these kids before these lenders do.

I just think its a bad signal to send to these kids that those who were responsible and have done good for themselves will bail you out when you did not. 

[CCTAU]

Sometimes you have to lower your expectations. Go to a community college for 2 years and get the basics out of the way while working and living at home.

Apply for as many scholarships as possible. Get good at something athletic.

We are looking at schools now. We really need to stay in state (GA.) to keep the HOPE money.

But if he can get a 50% baseball with hope, it will be very doable. But it won't be at a big school.

And there is just no way to afford out of state tuition.

Just because a kid wants to go party at AU, does not mean they should go into massive debt. 

And for goodness sake, do not cosign with them. When they default and you are in your 60s, it will eat up your retirement. And then neither of you have a place to live...

[GH2001]

And there is just no way to afford out of state tuition.

 A biggie

[Kaos]

When I started out away from home for the first time, I struggled.  Most people did that I knew. 

I ate a lot of Church's chicken because it was $1.99 for a two piece dinner.  I dug change out of sofa cushions more than once just to get enough.  I bought bread from the day old store.  Watched a 13" black and white TV until my roommates found an old console with a record player in the top at the dump and we managed to get it fixed well enough to see stuff.  When I'd run out of cigarettes I'd dig through the ashtray to find butts that had smokeable portions remaining.  Worked two jobs.  Still couldn't make it all work (partially my fault because I wanted to play softball and watch All My Children) so I got out and went to work. 

Later when I had a family and had worked my ass off to build a decent life I decided to go back.  Still worked two jobs, had my dad responsibilities and kept my household going. 

I didn't borrow money to do it.  I did it on my own. 

[GH2001]

I wanted to play softball and watch All My Children

                                                                                   



Serious though...You actually admitted something was YOUR fault. That is a lost art now. No accountability by anyone anymore. Young people, old people, all races, classes - just everyone. Nothing is anyone's self admitted fault. Always someone else. That needs to change.

[AUTiger1]

One of the major reasons that college expense has risen at such a fast pace is the easy access to money ("loans").  By over inflating the number of people that are able to attend due to easy access to loans, the government has artificially spiked the demand on the system. 

Because the government has bought in to the meme that everyone is entitled to access to college, colleges can charge whatever they want because the loan industry will loan whatever it costs.

In my day, you had to prove that your family could not afford to pay, you had to have good credit, you had to show a plan to the bank providing the loan ( kind of like a business plan) in order to even get a loan. 

I hate to be mean hearted, but everyone is NOT ENTITLED to a college education.  If you can't afford it, don't go.  If you can't afford it and decide to take out a loan, how about choosing a major that will land you a job that will pay enough to pay the loan back. 

OTHERWISE QUIT FUCKING WHINING ABOUT YOUR STUDENT LOAN DEBT

You must have many leather bound books and your office smells of mahogany.

I must have missed something here and I haven't kept up since I am no longer in school or really interested in going back, but when did college loan interest rates get so high? 

I got mine locked in at 2.25% and didn't have to make the first payment until six months after I graduated if I chose to do so.  They would send the school a check, the school would take out it's part for tuition and call me up to pick up what was left to pay for books, rent, food and miscellaneous expenses.   Of course this was 18 years ago so I am out of the loop.