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Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2

GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #120 on: August 19, 2014, 10:23:22 AM »
I just skimmed through most of this, but it sounds like smooth is out lawyering the lawyer...

Hmmmm

I take it Smooth is involved in these situations (criminal offenses) as a LEO.

Doesnt VV do Tax Law?    :poke:
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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #121 on: August 19, 2014, 10:59:49 AM »
Irrelevant:



« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 11:36:49 AM by Townhallsavoy »
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #123 on: August 19, 2014, 12:45:26 PM »
Heads up:  TL; DR. 

That is a hyperbolic example, but there would certainly be gray areas in which a judge could reasonably refuse to admit the criminal history as its prejudicial effect would outweigh the probative value in light of all of the other available evidence.
Heads up; I would need to be in a hyperbolic chamber to read all of this horseshit. The dude got shot because he bum rushed a policeman.
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Token

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #124 on: August 19, 2014, 12:48:22 PM »
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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #125 on: August 19, 2014, 12:53:18 PM »
There is a joke here, I'm certain. I just can't tell it apart from all the other jokes.

So you're saying all jokes look the same to you?
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totally unreasonable

Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #126 on: August 19, 2014, 02:00:28 PM »
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

Quote
BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
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GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #127 on: August 19, 2014, 02:02:08 PM »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #128 on: August 19, 2014, 02:02:52 PM »
Unless I'm misunderstanding (and I might be, I cant read them words good) we don't actually disagree. You're deliberately misconstruing what I said somewhat, and your hyperbolic example is so absurd as to be offensive but the meat of it is there.

We may be misunderstanding each other.  The hyperbolic example was to try to clear that up, not to state that the example was realistic (hence my use of the term hyperbolic).  And the example wasn't meant to be representative of what I thought your stance to be.  Rather, I was trying to show you a clear situation in which it would be more prejudicial than probative to admit into evidence the victim's history, despite the fact that it could have been considered by the officer.

As I understood you, you were claiming that the history of the victim would always be admissible in a use of force determination because it's "not a normal trial," and because the courts have previously stated that the victim's history is something that the cop is supposed to consider.

If so, that's not the case.  The court still has to determine whether what the cop considered will have a prejudicial effect, and whether that effect is greater than its probative value.  That determination is often made in light of all of the evidence, so the victim's history is not always going to make it into evidence.


If we do disagree I would appreciate it if you notify FLETC as well as all other schools and training academies.

FLETC and the schools and academies are irrelevant here.  I'm not telling you that the cops are not supposed to consider the victim's history when approaching.  In fact, I've stated multiple times that a cop can and should consider that.

However, what we've been discussing since your first post is whether all of the cop's considerations are admissible in a court of law:

The only thing I would like to interject about your informative discussion on court room procedure . . .

I was just pointing out that in use of force cases, if an officer knows about the suspect's prior acts, it is admissible because it is contained within the "totality". Your argument that the prior acts would be objected to because they might prejudice the jury against the defendant, in this case, don't really fit because he will not be on trial at all, he is deceased.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 02:15:46 PM by Vandy Vol »
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CCTAU

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #129 on: August 19, 2014, 02:08:30 PM »
Its actually a pretty common injury that occurs when shooting unarmed black kids in the back 100 yards away.

100 yards? I heard it was 150 yards with a snub nosed .38.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #130 on: August 19, 2014, 02:12:28 PM »
100 yards? I heard it was 150 yards with a snub nosed .38.
While he was fleeing the menacing cop I'm sure. Ya know, right after leaving grandma's.
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GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #131 on: August 19, 2014, 02:14:01 PM »
We may be misunderstanding each other.  The hyperbolic example was to try to clear that up, not to state that the example was realistic (hence my use of the term hyperbolic).

As I understood you, you were claiming that the history of the victim would always be admissible in a use of force determination because it's "not a normal trial," and because the courts have previously stated that the victim's history is something that the cop is supposed to consider.

If so, that's not the case.  The court still has to determine whether what the cop considered will have a prejudicial effect, and whether that effect is greater than its probative value.  That determination is often made in light of all of the evidence, so the victim's history is not always going to make it into evidence.


FLETC and the schools and academies are irrelevant here.  I'm not telling you that the cops are not supposed to consider the victim's history when approaching.  In fact, I've stated multiple times that a cop can and should consider that.

However, what we've been discussing since your first post is whether all of the cop's considerations are admissible in a court of law:

uh oh....    :popcorn:

You gonna take that Smooth? This little transgenered hobbit just called you irrelevant.
:pot:
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #132 on: August 19, 2014, 02:30:58 PM »
The more that I see this stupid shit on TV and the more that comes out re: the officer's injury, eyewitness accounts, etc. the more : 1. of a dumbass I feel like for even considering that the initial news reports focusing on the innocent and unarmed black youngster, while he begged for his life-- could be credible.
2. realize that there are more sorry ass, stupid, low life people in the U.S. that just want an opportunity to get something for nothing, by any means necessary. Even at the expense of an event that should be saddening.
3. that I realize that everything is political.
4. that I can confirm that we have the worst president and leadership in this country in my lifetime.
5. that I believe that, yes, there likely is profiling and/or police brutality in the U.S. BUT the people that want to bring attention to it have used two of the worst possible examples to rally around in Trayvon and Brown.
6. that I need to put serious consideration into having a plan b re: my chosen country in which to live.
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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #133 on: August 19, 2014, 02:36:39 PM »
Sigh. Fine.
We don't agree. Graham's "totality" standard is the standard for determining the reasonableness of a use of force. If you find a judge unwilling to consider the "totality" then you find a trial judge not following the standard set by SCOTUS. Not to say I wouldn't be surprised.
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totally unreasonable

WiregrassTiger

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #134 on: August 19, 2014, 02:39:52 PM »
Sigh. Fine.
We don't agree. Graham's "totality" standard is the standard for determining the reasonableness of a use of force. If you find a judge unwilling to consider the "totality" then you find a trial judge not following the standard set by SCOTUS. Not to say I wouldn't be surprised.
You seem smart, for a copper.
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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #135 on: August 19, 2014, 02:43:53 PM »
You seem smart, for a copper.

I'm definitely not, but situations like this make me consider not being a copper as well, so it makes sense.
Perhaps I will be neither.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #136 on: August 19, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
I'm definitely not, but situations like this make me consider not being a copper as well, so it makes sense.
Perhaps I will be neither.
If you want to go underground and do the vigilante thing in a black van with tinted windows, I will drive. We could call it the A team. Or, B team. Whichever you want. I just want to shoot some fuckers.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #137 on: August 19, 2014, 02:50:12 PM »
The more that I see this stupid shit on TV and the more that comes out re: the officer's injury, eyewitness accounts, etc. the more : 1. of a dumbass I feel like for even considering that the initial news reports focusing on the innocent and unarmed black youngster, while he begged for his life-- could be credible.
2. realize that there are more sorry ass, stupid, low life people in the U.S. that just want an opportunity to get something for nothing, by any means necessary. Even at the expense of an event that should be saddening.
3. that I realize that everything is political.
4. that I can confirm that we have the worst president and leadership in this country in my lifetime.
5. that I believe that, yes, there likely is profiling and/or police brutality in the U.S. BUT the people that want to bring attention to it have used two of the worst possible examples to rally around in Trayvon and Brown.
6. that I need to put serious consideration into having a plan b re: my chosen country in which to live.

My sister was telling me yesterday that she's looking at property in St. Croix and has interviewed for a position there and is just waiting for a call back.  I wuh all like, WTH???  She said, this country has gone insane.  I want out.
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GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #138 on: August 19, 2014, 02:50:31 PM »
If you want to go underground and do the vigilante thing in a black van with tinted windows, I will drive. We could call it the A team. Or, B team. Whichever you want. I just want to shoot some fuckers.

You would definitely be on the B Team.
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GH2001

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Re: Mike Brown: Trayvon Part 2
« Reply #139 on: August 19, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
My sister was telling me yesterday that she's looking at property in St. Croix and has interviewed for a position there and is just waiting for a call back.  I wuh all like, WTH???  She said, this country has gone insane.  I want out.

If the Scots vote to tell England to fuck off once and for all in a couple of weeks, it may not be the worst option. Aside from all the rain and fog and shit.
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