2014 NFL Draft...

Godfather · « **Reply #40 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:24:41 PM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 03:23:05 PM

Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?

Prolly because she lives in England...racists.

Vandy Vol · « **Reply #41 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 03:23:05 PM

Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?

By having better defensive stats?

Buzz Killington · « **Reply #42 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:35:34 PM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 03:23:05 PM

Then how, exactly, did he win gay SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #43 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:38:26 PM »

Heard today that Clowney had one sack in the last 8+ games.

Lemonier...table of one. Paging Lemonier.

DnATL · « **Reply #44 on:** February 25, 2014, 08:05:39 PM »

Quote from: WiregrassTiger on February 25, 2014, 10:59:07 AM

I think they should give him a break on the stiff hips part. I'm surprised that he's even able to stand erect after taking all of the poundings this season.

Maybe even a few high-low double-teams?

Pell City Tiger · « **Reply #45 on:** February 25, 2014, 08:08:29 PM »

Quote from: Snaggletiger on February 25, 2014, 04:38:26 PM

Heard today that Clowney had one sack in the last 8+ games.

That homo linebacker from Missouri had more than that (although his sack total included the ones he made off the field).

Tiger Wench · « **Reply #46 on:** February 25, 2014, 11:06:54 PM »

Quote from: Vandy Vol on February 25, 2014, 04:25:59 PM

By having better defensive stats?

Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?

GH2001 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 26, 2014, 09:29:12 AM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 11:06:54 PM

Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?

A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.

First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.

He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.

Tiger Wench · « **Reply #48 on:** February 26, 2014, 10:55:22 AM »

Quote from: GH2001 on February 26, 2014, 09:29:12 AM

A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.

First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.

He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.

Then Dee Ford or other better D-linemen got robbed. SEC DPOY used to actually mean something. Should not just be stats alone.

noxin · « **Reply #49 on:** February 26, 2014, 11:41:24 AM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 03:23:05 PM

Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?

I believe he scored higher in the evening gown competition

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #50 on:** February 26, 2014, 11:47:43 AM »

Quote from: noxin on February 26, 2014, 11:41:24 AM

I believe he scored higher in the evening gown competition

Which was total bullshift. I thought the sequins were overdone and distracting.

Vandy Vol · « **Reply #51 on:** February 26, 2014, 01:25:17 PM »

Quote from: GH2001 on February 26, 2014, 09:29:12 AM

A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.

First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.

He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.

Michael Sam didn't have 9 sacks by the fifth game of the year, Florida was the seventh game of the year, and 4.5 of Sam's 10.5 sacks came from Florida, South Carolina, and A&M...

Anyhow, of Dee Ford's 8.5 sacks (two less than Michael Sam), 4 came from Ole Miss, Western Carolina, and Florida Atlantic. So just like Sam, approximately half of his sacks came from relatively weak teams.

Similarly, when Ford played the likes of Georgia, Missouri, Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, and Mississippi State, he had all of 1.5 sacks.

Plus sacks aren't the only stats to consider. Sam had 17 more tackles. Ford has 2 tackles per game against teams like Western Carolina and Tennessee, or 3 against Ole Miss, but you assert that Sam's stats are padded because he got more tackles against lesser teams (7 against Murray State, 5 against Arkansas State) and still had good games against better teams (5 against South Carolina, 5 against A&M, 3 against Auburn).

I'm not arguing that Sam is light years ahead of Ford by any means. Nor am I saying that Sam is better than Ford if you were to match the two against the same teams throughout the year. But when it comes to awarding a defensive player of the year, should you not look at their stats? Sure, there are other intangibles to take into account, but the stats go a long way.

Vandy Vol · « **Reply #52 on:** February 26, 2014, 01:29:20 PM »

Quote from: Tiger Wench on February 25, 2014, 11:06:54 PM

Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?

I don't know whether anyone else in the SEC had better stats than Sam, but like my reply to GH mentioned, the stat comparison between Sam and Ford is pretty close; his numbers weren't accurate. Neither player is light years ahead of the other such that one is clearly a "bad mofo," and the other is just a fag.

If there's a player who had clearly better stats than Sam, then yes, it was a travesty that he got SEC DPOY. But if you're putting Ford up there as the evidence of Sam not being worthy of the award? I don't see it.

Godfather · « **Reply #53 on:** February 26, 2014, 01:43:23 PM »

The fact Jake Holland didn't win DPOTY is a travesty and the award means nothing to me.

Vandy Vol · « **Reply #54 on:** February 26, 2014, 01:46:22 PM »

Quote from: Godfather on February 26, 2014, 01:43:23 PM

The fact Jake Holland didn't win DPOTY is a travesty and the award means nothing to me.

Fact.

GH2001 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 26, 2014, 02:58:29 PM »

Quote from: Vandy Vol on February 26, 2014, 01:25:17 PM

Michael Sam didn't have 9 sacks by the fifth game of the year, Florida was the seventh game of the year, and 4.5 of Sam's 10.5 sacks came from Florida, South Carolina, and A&M...

Anyhow, of Dee Ford's 8.5 sacks (two less than Michael Sam), 4 came from Ole Miss, Western Carolina, and Florida Atlantic. So just like Sam, approximately half of his sacks came from relatively weak teams.

Similarly, when Ford played the likes of Georgia, Missouri, Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, and Mississippi State, he had all of 1.5 sacks.

Plus sacks aren't the only stats to consider. Sam had 17 more tackles. Ford has 2 tackles per game against teams like Western Carolina and Tennessee, or 3 against Ole Miss, but you assert that Sam's stats are padded because he got more tackles against lesser teams (7 against Murray State, 5 against Arkansas State) and still had good games against better teams (5 against South Carolina, 5 against A&M, 3 against Auburn).

I'm not arguing that Sam is light years ahead of Ford by any means. Nor am I saying that Sam is better than Ford if you were to match the two against the same teams throughout the year. But when it comes to awarding a defensive player of the year, should you not look at their stats? Sure, there are other intangibles to take into account, but the stats go a long way.

OK, my numbers were a bit off (posted from phone), but you get the drift. He stock piled his stats.

And I haven't once advocated for Dee Ford to be SEC D POY. Ford did however seem to get better as the year went on. And truly showed up in the seccg, bcscg and the sr bowl - where he was MVP. Those 3 are hard to ignore. Does Sam have anything of those? When the game meant something, was on the line - against a quality offense?

My point was answering TW's question. Sam won the award on stats mainly. 11.5 sacks looks stout...but what Ford did against Mizzou, FSU and in the Sr bowl is more impressive. If were speaking from an NFL prospect point of view especially.

I also think Clowney and Moseley are up there. They don't have the stats, but the eye test still says they are top notch. I think there is a fine line with stats and intangibles, and we tend to lean too heavy to the stats.