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How screwed up we are

Kaos

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How screwed up we are
« on: February 05, 2014, 10:40:49 AM »
As part of my business, I have small tasks that can be performed. I typically try to hire teachers to do them because I know how little teachers usually make and I know that they usually need some outside money.

It's small stuff -- proofreading basically.  If I have pages to be done I call these people in.  If not, I don't. 

Got a teacher, let's call her Miss Bessie, to do it last year and she's been proofreading off and on for 11 months. Bessie was a teacher when I asked her if she wanted to help us out and also pick up some extra money. She lost her teaching job in December. I let her keep doing the proofreading for me because I figured she probably needed it. 

In January the contract I had to do the proofreading expired. It's unlikely to be renewed because it was only a short-term thing until they got in-house people trained to do it.  So I don't have any more proofreading for Bessie to do.

She filed for unemployment. 

She was never an employee, I paid her only for work done and on a per-unit basis. Gave her a 1099 at the end of the year.  Never on payroll. Never offered benefits. 

She never made more than $150 in any month she read for me. 

Got a letter from the state.  They find her claim to be valid.  Determine that she should get $285 PER WEEK minimum. 

Now I'm on the hook for not paying unemployment and they are threatening me with a fine and having to pay all the back unemployment on not just her but the other eight or nine teachers/former teachers I've used over the last five years to do work like this for me. 

Pathetic.  Makes me want to move to Mexico or Australia.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 12:16:53 PM »
I don't do unemployment law, so I don't know when she can file for unemployment, but because she was previously an employee with the school, she could be eligible for unemployment.  Not based on her arrangement with you, obviously, but she did pay into the unemployment system as a W-2'ed teacher.

Either she fucked up her unemployment application and listed you as the "triggering event" that made her eligible for unemployment, or the government fucked up in reviewing her application and assumed that her most recent "unemployment" from you was the triggering event.  Either way, you should be able to submit a written statement and copy of the 1099 to clear things up.  Just be sure that your letter mentions the terms of her employment with you in a way that satisfies the elements for independent contractors:  http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee
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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 12:39:01 PM »
I'm confused.  Businesses pay unemployment?  I thought it was a government-issued check.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2014, 12:57:41 PM »
I'm confused.  Businesses pay unemployment?  I thought it was a government-issued check.
Businesses have to pay into the unemployment fund for W2 employees. She was not employed by Kaos, rather contract labor, by my understanding. It seems like the unemployment office is confused, which is not surprising in the least based on past experience.
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GH2001

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 01:48:14 PM »
I'm confused.  Businesses pay unemployment?  I thought it was a government-issued check.

Serious Clark?
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Ogre

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 02:22:15 PM »
I handle all of our unemployment claims.  We fired a guy about a month ago for refusing to do a routine task that was part of his job while he was out on a delivery.  On top of that he got loud and shouted profanities in front of a customer and the coworker.  His coworker called our dispatcher who send another crew of 2 men out to help with the delivery while this guy sat in the truck.  He refused to talk with his immediate supervisor and the store manager over the phone.

Needless to say he was fired when he got back to the store.  3 days later we received the unemployment claim from the State of Alabama.  I promptly replied and then I received a call from the labor department.  I provided all of the documentation they requested, including previous write-ups for similar behavior and witness testimonies from all parties involved.  Finally they issued a denial of benefits.

Two weeks go by and I receive a letter from the State for a telephone hearing for his appeal of the original ruling.  He is claiming that he "left voluntarily without good cause connected with such work."  I block off an hour and have my ducks in a row ready to shoot this guy down.  The guy no-shows.  I win the appeal.

Yesterday I get another letter from the State.  It's a rescheduling of his appeal for this Monday.  I have already been informed that if he loses this appeal that he can appeal yet again to a higher officer. 

If this guy would put half as much time in to finding a new job or working toward honing a skill that would make him a more marketable employee he'd be well on the road to reemployment.  He'd rather sit at home and collect 99 weeks of unemployment.  I am going to fight tooth and nail to ensure it won't be on our dime.  I have to do this with every termination and it's ridiculous.  I can't imagine what it would be like in a state like California.

Rant over.
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Saniflush

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »
I handle all of our unemployment claims.  We fired a guy about a month ago for refusing to do a routine task that was part of his job while he was out on a delivery.  On top of that he got loud and shouted profanities in front of a customer and the coworker.  His coworker called our dispatcher who send another crew of 2 men out to help with the delivery while this guy sat in the truck.  He refused to talk with his immediate supervisor and the store manager over the phone.

Needless to say he was fired when he got back to the store.  3 days later we received the unemployment claim from the State of Alabama.  I promptly replied and then I received a call from the labor department.  I provided all of the documentation they requested, including previous write-ups for similar behavior and witness testimonies from all parties involved.  Finally they issued a denial of benefits.

Two weeks go by and I receive a letter from the State for a telephone hearing for his appeal of the original ruling.  He is claiming that he "left voluntarily without good cause connected with such work."  I block off an hour and have my ducks in a row ready to shoot this guy down.  The guy no-shows.  I win the appeal.

Yesterday I get another letter from the State.  It's a rescheduling of his appeal for this Monday.  I have already been informed that if he loses this appeal that he can appeal yet again to a higher officer. 

If this guy would put half as much time in to finding a new job or working toward honing a skill that would make him a more marketable employee he'd be well on the road to reemployment.  He'd rather sit at home and collect 99 weeks of unemployment.  I am going to fight tooth and nail to ensure it won't be on our dime. 
Rant over.

Welcome to my world once a week.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2014, 02:42:29 PM »
As one who is unemployed now, I have seen both sides of this. When working at my last company I was able to deflect unemployed claims by offering the guy we wanted to fire a another job in the company and of course with a lot less pay. Most guys are to manly to do this, say fuck it and leave. We win all appeals.

 Now that I am on the unemployed side I will just say you (I) feel like a failure, I have sent well over 100 resumes and only had about 5 interviews and three of those were a waste of time. Of course I thinks its harder right now because its winter and I'm stuck inside on most days, but my house is overly clean. On the bright side (if there is one) with Unemployment-Military retirement and umpiring money financially we have not missed out on anything.

For those of you who have met my wife you now understand why she is the brains and the beauty of the family. If we had to we could live just off her job.

Yes, there are jobs out there, which puts me in a quandary, most of them are paying less than what I make on just unemployment.

But overall for me its  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

Saniflush

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2014, 02:54:33 PM »
Might I suggest a job for your wife?
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Ogre

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2014, 02:58:45 PM »
Might I suggest a job for your wife?

Planting tulips?
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Kaos

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 03:20:51 PM »
As one who is unemployed now, I have seen both sides of this. When working at my last company I was able to deflect unemployed claims by offering the guy we wanted to fire a another job in the company and of course with a lot less pay. Most guys are to manly to do this, say fudge it and leave. We win all appeals.

 Now that I am on the unemployed side I will just say you (I) feel like a failure, I have sent well over 100 resumes and only had about 5 interviews and three of those were a waste of time. Of course I thinks its harder right now because its winter and I'm stuck inside on most days, but my house is overly clean. On the bright side (if there is one) with Unemployment-Military retirement and umpiring money financially we have not missed out on anything.

For those of you who have met my wife you now understand why she is the brains and the beauty of the family. If we had to we could live just off her job.

Yes, there are jobs out there, which puts me in a quandary, most of them are paying less than what I make on just unemployment.

But overall for me its  :facepalm:

But there aren't two sides. 

Would you really claim unemployment from a job if your job was picking up tin cans on the road and turning them in for a nickel each to the scrap yard?  Would you sue the scrapyard for unemployment benefits if they no longer accepted tin cans? 

This chick was never an employee in any way, shape or form.  She set her own hours, could refuse to come in if she wanted to, and could stop reading at any point.  No quotas, no regulations, nothing. I paid her 20 cents for every three-paragraph document she read over. I had people reading thousands per month because they wanted the money.  She'd come in, read 40 or 50 (takes about a minute to read each one) and take off.   Her highest month I think she made $148.  She usually made $70 or $80 a month. 

If I take federal, state, SS and UI out of that, she's gonna bring home $4.  Wouldn't have ever been able to get anybody to do it. 

Would you honestly feel right about claiming unemployment from something like that? 

If she'd been a real employee, if I'd laid her off or anything like that I would gladly agree to it.  I've never denied a claim for anybody before that I can remember, even if their departure was sort of their fault -- or theirs entirely. 

But now I've got the stupid DoL snooping around and looking at everything because this stupid woman thinks she's owed $285 a week for a job she usually made $20 a week or less. 
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dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 04:11:58 PM »
But there aren't two sides

Would you really claim unemployment from a job if your job was picking up tin cans on the road and turning them in for a nickel each to the scrap yard?  Would you sue the scrapyard for unemployment benefits if they no longer accepted tin cans? 

This chick was never an employee in any way, shape or form.  She set her own hours, could refuse to come in if she wanted to, and could stop reading at any point.  No quotas, no regulations, nothing. I paid her 20 cents for every three-paragraph document she read over. I had people reading thousands per month because they wanted the money.  She'd come in, read 40 or 50 (takes about a minute to read each one) and take off.   Her highest month I think she made $148.  She usually made $70 or $80 a month. 

If I take federal, state, SS and UI out of that, she's gonna bring home $4.  Wouldn't have ever been able to get anybody to do it. 

Would you honestly feel right about claiming unemployment from something like that? 

If she'd been a real employee, if I'd laid her off or anything like that I would gladly agree to it.  I've never denied a claim for anybody before that I can remember, even if their departure was sort of their fault -- or theirs entirely. 

But now I've got the stupid DoL snooping around and looking at everything because this stupid woman thinks she's owed $285 a week for a job she usually made $20 a week or less.

In your case right there aren't two sides and no for what she was doing I would not have filed. I didn't file right away after I got laid off (too embarrassed) but everybody told me I had been paying into for ten+ years I should go ahead.


I don't care what the numbers say unemployment is easily around 12%. One of my interviews a guy was sitting besides me and we started talking about the economy and such, found out he had a bachelors degree in accounting and was down to applying for straight low level bookkeeping jobs.

 I should also say I was offered a job.  $9.00 an hour-data entry a 1 hr. and 15 minute drive each way. Figure if I took it would be the first time in history somebody had a job and lost money doing it.     
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

Buzz Killington

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 10:42:41 PM »
I'm confused.  Businesses pay unemployment?  I thought it was a government-issued check.

It is.  Don't listen to these guys...they are just extreme right wingers.  The government is here to take care of us all!
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.

dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2014, 01:05:48 PM »
Was thinking about this last night and I don't understand how she can draw more in unemployment that what she was making. Here in Texas I think you get about 65% of your pay for 26 weeks and then can file for a 14 week federal extension if you need to. I ma not sure where the 99 weeks came from?


Is bama different?
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2014, 02:11:20 PM »
Was thinking about this last night and I don't understand how she can draw more in unemployment that what she was making. Here in Texas I think you get about 65% of your pay for 26 weeks and then can file for a 14 week federal extension if you need to. I ma not sure where the 99 weeks came from?


Is bama different?

Emergency Unemployment Compensation.  Don't know if it's really 99 weeks or if that was hyperbole.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-takes-another-stab-at-extending-unemployment-benefits/
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You meet a man on the Oregon Trail. He tells you his name is Terry. You laugh and tell him: "That's a girl's name!" Terry shoots you. You have died of dissin' Terry.

dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 02:35:41 PM »
Emergency Unemployment Compensation.  Don't know if it's really 99 weeks or if that was hyperbole.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-takes-another-stab-at-extending-unemployment-benefits/

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3164

Less than 6%   14 additional weeks
6 to 7%           28 additional weeks
7 to 9%           37 additional weeks
At least 9%      47 additional weeks
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

GH2001

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 02:54:58 PM »
Emergency Unemployment Compensation.  Don't know if it's really 99 weeks or if that was hyperbole.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-takes-another-stab-at-extending-unemployment-benefits/

Screw the states. The Feds got this.
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dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2014, 03:15:50 PM »
Screw the states. The Feds got this.

So if I get to my additional 14 weeks I guess I am double dipping the fed.


Me starting to like some Obama.  :puke: :puke: :facepalm:
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

Ogre

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2014, 03:16:17 PM »
Two weeks go by and I receive a letter from the State for a telephone hearing for his appeal of the original ruling.  He is claiming that he "left voluntarily without good cause connected with such work."  I block off an hour and have my ducks in a row ready to shoot this guy down.  The guy no-shows.  I win the appeal.

Yesterday I get another letter from the State.  It's a rescheduling of his appeal for this Monday.  I have already been informed that if he loses this appeal that he can appeal yet again to a higher officer. 


We had the rescheduled hearing for his appeal this morning since he no-showed the last hearing. 

He no-showed again.

 #winning
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dallaswareagle

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Re: How screwed up we are
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 03:26:53 PM »
Two weeks go by and I receive a letter from the State for a telephone hearing for his appeal of the original ruling.  He is claiming that he "left voluntarily without good cause connected with such work."  I block off an hour and have my ducks in a row ready to shoot this guy down.  The guy no-shows.  I win the appeal.



From my understanding if you "leave voluntarily" (I quit) or some such you have no right to claim unemployment. At least here in Texas. 
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'