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Why?

WiregrassTiger

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Why?
« on: January 21, 2014, 11:30:33 AM »
If justice could possibly still happen, I would understand. If the boy's name could possibly be cleared, I could understand. How can that happen without any physical evidence or eyewitness testimony?

It looks like a complete waste of taxpayer money unless there is some compelling evidence that isn't brought up in this article.

"Supporters of George Stinney plan to argue Tuesday that there wasn't enough evidence to find him guilty in 1944 of killing " is an impossible argument to win. That ship has sailed. If they want to prove that he was wrongfully convicted, that's another thing but he def was found guilty--regardless of what the death penalty for a 14 yr old seems like for us today.

http://news.yahoo.com/trial-sought-sc-boy-14-executed-1944-172035983.html

SUMTER, S.C. (AP) — A 14-year-old boy executed by South Carolina nearly 70 years ago is finally getting another day in court.

Supporters of George Stinney plan to argue Tuesday that there wasn't enough evidence to find him guilty in 1944 of killing a 7-year-old and an 11-year-old girl. The black teen was found guilty of killing the white girls in a trial that lasted less than a day in the tiny Southern mill town of Alcolu, separated, as most were in those days, by race.

Nearly all the evidence, including a confession that was central to the case against Stinney, has disappeared, along with the transcript of the trial. Lawyers working on behalf of Stinney's family have sworn statements from his relatives accounting for his time the day the girls were killed, from a cellmate saying he never confessed to the crime and from a pathologist disputing the findings of the autopsy done on the victims.

The novel decision whether to give an executed man a new trial will be in the hands of Circuit Judge Carmen Mullen. Experts say it is a longshot. South Carolina law has a high bar for new trials based on evidence that could have been discovered at the time of the trial. Also, the legal system in the state before segregation often found defendants guilty with evidence that would be considered scant today. If Mullen finds in favor of Stinney, it could open the door for hundreds of other appeals.

But the Stinney case is unique in one way. At 14, he's the youngest person executed in the United States in the past 100 years. Even in 1944, there was an outcry over putting someone so young in the electric chair. Newspaper accounts said the straps in the chair didn't fit around his 95-pound body and an electrode was too big for his leg.

Stinney's supporters said racism, common in the Jim Crow era South, meant deputies in Clarendon County did little investigation after they decided Stinney was the prime suspect. They said he was pulled from his parents and interrogated without a lawyer.

School board member George Frierson heard stories about Stinney growing up in the same mill town and has spent a decade fighting to get him exonerated. He swallowed hard as he said he hardly slept before the day he has waited 10 years to see.

"Somebody that didn't kill someone is finally getting his day in court," Frierson said.

Back in 1944, Stinney was likely the only black person in the courtroom during his one-day trial. On Tuesday, the prosecutor arguing against him will be Ernest "Chip" Finney III, the son of South Carolina's first black Chief Justice. Finney said last month he won't preset any evidence against Stinney at the hearing, but if a new trial is granted, he will ask for time to conduct a new investigation.

What that investigation might find is not known. South Carolina did not have a statewide law enforcement unit to help smaller jurisdictions until 1947. Newspaper stories about Stinney's trial offer little clue whether any evidence was introduced beyond the teen's confession and an autopsy report. Some people around Alcolu said bloody clothes were taken from Stinney's home, but never introduced at trial because of his confession. No record of those clothes exists.

Relatives of one of the girls killed, 11-year-old Betty Binnicker, have recently spoke out as well, saying Stinney was known around town as a bully who threatened to fight or kill people who came too close to the grass where he grazed the family cow.

It isn't known if the judge will rule Tuesday, or take time to come to her decision. Stinney's supporters said if the motion for a new trial fails, they will ask the state to pardon him.
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Godfather

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Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 11:37:28 AM »
Dabbie weeps for us all.
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CCTAU

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Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 02:25:05 PM »
I saw this and asked, "Why now?"

it seems that as we move forward, there are those that still want to look back and create dissent in race relations. Many black folks are already conditioned that any kind of atrocity committed against a human being in American history only happened to blacks. Why fuel the fire? Anyone with half a brain knows that our justice system was not the best during the first to mid 20 century. And I know it would just blow some folks' minds to know that most of the atrocities in the justice system were perpetrated against, gasp, white people! There were poor people all over the US that got a raw deal, not just blacks in the south. Hell, there were poor white people in the south that got a raw deal.
So why just stir up more tension? As long as we allow people like this to stir up racial divide, we will not move forward. This is not, and will not be, about justice. It is only about race.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

War Eagle!!!

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Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 02:42:20 PM »
I saw this and asked, "Why now?"

it seems that as we move forward, there are those that still want to look back and create dissent in race relations. Many black folks are already conditioned that any kind of atrocity committed against a human being in American history only happened to blacks. Why fuel the fire? Anyone with half a brain knows that our justice system was not the best during the first to mid 20 century. And I know it would just blow some folks' minds to know that most of the atrocities in the justice system were perpetrated against, gasp, white people! There were poor people all over the US that got a raw deal, not just blacks in the south. Hell, there were poor white people in the south that got a raw deal.
So why just stir up more tension? As long as we allow people like this to stir up racial divide, we will not move forward. This is not, and will not be, about justice. It is only about race.

While I agree with the point that you are making; to try and justify that some whites were treated just as bad as some blacks is ridiculous...
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 02:46:43 PM »
In junior high, I had some black kids beat me up and steal my lunch money.



Those girls were rough.
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CCTAU

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Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 03:18:28 PM »
While I agree with the point that you are making; to try and justify that some whites were treated just as bad as some blacks is ridiculous...

It is not ridiculous. This country is a lot bigger than just the south and the plight of blacks. Did it go on? Of course it did, but all over the country there were people being treated poorly. It may have been for different reasons, but that does not make it any less real. You and those like you have been conditioned that anytime race is involved, it automatically becomes a greater travesty. Tragedy involving a human life is tragedy, no more, no less. There is no racial ownership of it.  To act like there is, is to ignore anyone else who endured such tragedy.

And the only reason to bring this up now is to rile racial tensions.

 

Just where have you been the last 2 years? Has not even the Trayvon Martin incident given you a clue as to the reasons for these types of things. Attention and racial division are all these are for. There is no justice being served or sought after here.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

War Eagle!!!

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Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 03:45:02 PM »
It is not ridiculous. This country is a lot bigger than just the south and the plight of blacks. Did it go on? Of course it did, but all over the country there were people being treated poorly. It may have been for different reasons, but that does not make it any less real. You and those like you have been conditioned that anytime race is involved, it automatically becomes a greater travesty. Tragedy involving a human life is tragedy, no more, no less. There is no racial ownership of it.  To act like there is, is to ignore anyone else who endured such tragedy.

And the only reason to bring this up now is to rile racial tensions.

 

Just where have you been the last 2 years? Has not even the Trayvon Martin incident given you a clue as to the reasons for these types of things. Attention and racial division are all these are for. There is no justice being served or sought after here.

If you knew me or my views, you would think it is funny that you are telling me that...

Dude...I understand where you are coming from...

But I also know that white people weren't treated wrong because they were white, and for you to imply that if someone else was mistreated, then it equates to what ALL black people went through is wrong.

But damn...that shit was a long time ago, it is what it is, and there is no excuses anymore...
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CCTAU

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Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 03:59:52 PM »
If you knew me or my views, you would think it is funny that you are telling me that...

Dude...I understand where you are coming from...

But I also know that white people weren't treated wrong because they were white, and for you to imply that if someone else was mistreated, then it equates to what ALL black people went through is wrong.

But damn...that shit was a long time ago, it is what it is, and there is no excuses anymore...

Exactly. It's time we move on and make sure that justice serves everyone. Every time we bring something like this back up, it creates nothing but anger. Even if the case is reopened, there is no way the decision will be reverses. ALL of the evidence is gone. The only witnesses left are his family. The only logical result will be the same, and that will do nothing but piss off a lot of people who never knew this happened in the first place.

That is why my diatribe had more to do with answering the question "why".
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Kaos

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Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 04:53:20 PM »
Ya'll all be racist.  We want that boy name EXFOLIATED!!
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CCTAU

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Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 05:01:41 PM »
Ya'll all be racist.  We want that boy name EXFOLIATED!!

Leave it be!
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Snaggletiger

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Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 05:11:29 PM »
I know how hard it is to be a woman, especially a black woman.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2014, 05:55:56 PM »
I saw this and asked, "Why now?"

it seems that as we move forward, there are those that still want to look back and create dissent in race relations. Many black folks are already conditioned that any kind of atrocity committed against a human being in American history only happened to blacks. Why fuel the fire? Anyone with half a brain knows that our justice system was not the best during the first to mid 20 century. And I know it would just blow some folks' minds to know that most of the atrocities in the justice system were perpetrated against, gasp, white people! There were poor people all over the US that got a raw deal, not just blacks in the south. Hell, there were poor white people in the south that got a raw deal.
So why just stir up more tension? As long as we allow people like this to stir up racial divide, we will not move forward. This is not, and will not be, about justice. It is only about race.

We have this little thing called a justice system.  If someone has the ability to challenge a conviction from the past or bring a civil suit based on a wrongful conviction from the past, then they have that legal ability regardless of race.  Even if their only reason for challenging the conviction or bringing suit is to play the race card, they still have that ability.  We can't offer a legal remedy for wrongful convictions, but then say, "Nope!  You blacks are playing the race card too often and trying to rub these wrongful convictions in our face...no more legal reviews for you."
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Kaos

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Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2014, 06:06:38 PM »
We have this little thing called a justice system.  If someone has the ability to challenge a conviction from the past or bring a civil suit based on a wrongful conviction from the past, then they have that legal ability regardless of race.  Even if their only reason for challenging the conviction or bringing suit is to play the race card, they still have that ability.  We can't offer a legal remedy for wrongful convictions, but then say, "Nope!  You blacks are playing the race card too often and trying to rub these wrongful convictions in our face...no more legal reviews for you."

In other words "the good old days"
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2014, 06:13:54 PM »
In other words "the good old days"

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Kaos

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Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2014, 08:02:42 PM »
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CCTAU

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Re: Why?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 12:19:28 AM »
We have this little thing called a justice system.  If someone has the ability to challenge a conviction from the past or bring a civil suit based on a wrongful conviction from the past, then they have that legal ability regardless of race.  Even if their only reason for challenging the conviction or bringing suit is to play the race card, they still have that ability.  We can't offer a legal remedy for wrongful convictions, but then say, "Nope!  You blacks are playing the race card too often and trying to rub these wrongful convictions in our face...no more legal reviews for you."

Then maybe the riots will be at your house when this just pisses ignorant people off for no reason.

There is no evidence left therefore this is an will be nothing more than an attempt at race baiting. It's a no win situation and the people pushing it know that.

But whatever. I'm prepared for another assault on whitey by the black panther party. Because that is all this is about!
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Vandy Vol

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Re: Why?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 09:51:21 AM »
Then maybe the riots will be at your house when this just pisses ignorant people off for no reason.

There is no evidence left therefore this is an will be nothing more than an attempt at race baiting. It's a no win situation and the people pushing it know that.

But whatever. I'm prepared for another assault on whitey by the black panther party. Because that is all this is about!

If this is a frivolous request for a new trial, then it will be rejected.  If it is accepted and then later determined to be a frivolous request for a new trial, then appropriate costs will be entered against the defendant's representative(s).

However, considering that there is new testimony, including a pathologist who claims to be able to refute the previous autopsy findings, I don't see how this could only be construed as a racial issue due to there being "no evidence left."  Additionally, there is the fact that the prosecution claimed that evidence existed, but never admitted it at trial; although remaining court records are scant, various witnesses can testify to that, as can news reports.  An appeal/new trial could be warranted on that fact alone.  Based on South Carolina laws, it probably won't, but I don't see this as a trial being requested because of race alone.
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GH2001

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Re: Why?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2014, 09:52:10 AM »
Truth is, white people were in fact treated badly by other white people because of the particular ethnicity they belonged to. Very badly. A shit ton of Italians and Irish were treated like garbage by the aristocratic "mayflower blood" plantation types in charge. They were discriminated against, treated as 2nd class, subhuman and it was all public and "legal".

And no it doesn't justify the treatment of any other group badly.  It was all wrong. And also in the past.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Why?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 09:56:53 AM »
And no it doesn't justify the treatment of any other group badly.  It was all wrong. And also in the past.

It's easy to say that it's all in the past when you haven't been sitting in jail for a crime you didn't commit.  Of the 312 post-conviction exonerations in the U.S. (which are still adding up, BTW), the average served time was 14 years.

Granted, if you've already been executed, then there's nothing that can be done for the defendant.  But I don't know that this doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to bring peace to the remaining family and friends by righting a wrong.  Would you want your father to go down in judicial history as a rapist if you have reason to believe he was wrongly convicted?  If you had the legal ability to challenge his conviction, would you agree with others when they tell you, "Man...it's all in the past.  Just stop trying to stir the pot and wasting taxpayer dollars."
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GH2001

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Re: Why?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
It's easy to say that it's all in the past when you haven't been sitting in jail for a crime you didn't commit.  Of the 312 post-conviction exonerations in the U.S. (which are still adding up, BTW), the average served time was 14 years.

Granted, if you've already been executed, then there's nothing that can be done for the defendant.  But I don't know that this doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to bring peace to the remaining family and friends by righting a wrong.  Would you want your father to go down in judicial history as a rapist if you have reason to believe he was wrongly convicted?  If you had the legal ability to challenge his conviction, would you agree with others when they tell you, "Man...it's all in the past.  Just stop trying to stir the pot and wasting taxpayer dollars."

If everyone is dead from when it happened, then yes I say let it go. There is no way humanity can retroactively vindicate every victim that may or may not have ever existed. It's impossible. That's a huge slippery slope.

It's different if it's a current case and people are alive. And I really don't think this case is for all the right reasons. I can understand with the Medger Evers case because certain accused assailants were still alive. And in that case it worked because of that and new technology.

In this case, nothing will inherently change no matter the outcome.
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