Phillip Marshall: "If you can't stop it, outlaw it"

The Six · « **on:** July 19, 2013, 03:24:22 PM »

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071913aac.html

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Thirty years ago, when the wishbone offense seemed all but unstoppable, I donâ€™t recall anyone suggesting the rules be changed.

Here are a couple of things the complaining coaches didnâ€™t tell you: 1. If the offense substitutes, officials are required to give the defense time to substitute as well. 2. The defense can substitute anyway if players are ready to hit the field as soon as the previous play ends. Thatâ€™s not really what those coaches want. They want to be able to see the personnel the opponent has in the game and substitute accordingly.

Why has this suddenly become an issue? Auburn won a national championship running Gus Malzahnâ€™s hurryup, no-huddle, and heâ€™s back. Texas A&M beat eventual national champion Alabama in Tuscaloosa last season. Oregon has been knocking on the door for almost a decade playing offense at breakneck speed. Hugh Freeze brought Ole Miss back from the bottom of the SEC with a rapid-fire offense last season. Baylor, West Virginia and others are piling up points.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2013, 03:44:23 PM »

Too fat; dr

The Six · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2013, 04:37:47 PM »

Quote from: Snaggletiger on July 19, 2013, 03:44:23 PM

Too fat; dr

Trimmed down for easier digestion.

RWS · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2013, 08:06:30 PM »

I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....

jmar · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2013, 08:47:26 PM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 08:06:30 PM

I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....

Well said. I don't think the HUNH loses it's appeal. Diversity is good for the game and though it might be modified , I think it is here to stay.

djsimp · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2013, 08:54:11 PM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 08:06:30 PM

I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....

So, you agree with Saban trying to force NCAA rules against HUNH?

RWS · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2013, 09:39:58 PM »

Quote from: djsimp on July 19, 2013, 08:54:11 PM

So, you agree with Saban trying to force NCAA rules against HUNH?

Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.

I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.

djsimp · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2013, 09:43:36 PM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 09:39:58 PM

Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.

I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.

I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.

The Prowler · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:36:00 AM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 09:39:58 PM

Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.

I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.

I highlighted the part where injuries happen too. And no, the HUNH doesn't fuckin cause injuries, anyone that says that it does is fuckin retarded and just trying to do whatever they can to put a stop to something that gives them headaches...Football causes injuries (period).
You putting that inbred bammer spin on it doesn't surprise me at all...btw, that's the same approach that Coach Fuhrer is using, the "I just think it should be looked into, does it cause injuries, I don't know...but tired defenders are more liable to be injured, blah, blah, blah." He's not saying it, but he's saying it, type garbage. Before his buddy Mark Emmert leaves the NCAA President's seat, there will be a ruling put in to slow down the HUNH...mark it down.

I know a lot of people will say that it'll never happen, they'll be wrong, a rule will be put in to specifically target the HUNH. It might be a small rule, but it will slow the offenses down. Something like allowing the defenders to substitute after a first down, give them 15 seconds to substitute unless it's under the 2 minute mark in the 2nd and 4th quarters...something, but it will be done, because Herr Wolf said so.

jmar · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:47:13 AM »

Quote from: djsimp on July 19, 2013, 09:43:36 PM

I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.

Agree and the word "safety" is being employed (in this case) as a tool only to conform others to their way.
I love the HUNH and I think it is here to stay. In fact I never want to see us run anything else because if we do it would indicate Auburn has failed.

Kaos · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2013, 08:13:09 AM »

Quote from: jmar on July 20, 2013, 07:47:13 AM

Agree and the word "safety" is being employed (in this case) as a tool only to conform others to their way.
I love the HUNH and I think it is here to stay. In fact I never want to see us run anything else because if we do it would indicate Auburn has failed.

That silly stuff Malzahn runs isn't football. We got to get away from that. He's the devil, people. The devil. Can't be running that devil voodoo at our program.

The Prowler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2013, 08:30:52 AM »

Quote from: djsimp on July 19, 2013, 09:43:36 PM

I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.

Yeah, for their team...but what about the opponent's defense? They'll be on the field longer if that's the case, plus if you throw in HGH, like in uat's case, they'll be bigger and stronger...they'll hit harder, leading to more injuries.

With Coach Fuhrer's stance against the HUNH, stating that it injures the defensive players because they aren't allowed to substitute, why did he run the HUNH multiple times last season, not including under the 2 minute mark? Guess he was meaning to purposely injure their players, since that's his belief and all.

djsimp · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2013, 10:15:00 AM »

Quote from: The Prowler on July 20, 2013, 08:30:52 AM

Yeah, for their team...but what about the opponent's defense? They'll be on the field longer if that's the case, plus if you throw in HGH, like in uat's case, they'll be bigger and stronger...they'll hit harder, leading to more injuries.

With Coach Fuhrer's stance against the HUNH, stating that it injures the defensive players because they aren't allowed to substitute, why did he run the HUNH multiple times last season, not including under the 2 minute mark? Guess he was meaning to purposely injure their players, since that's his belief and all.

My point, I think your's is(?), is that there are many ways to protect ones defense and giving the defense time to substitute is way down the list on the importance level. Just screams out as having a different motive in everyones mind except for the updikes and the piggies.

bottomfeeder · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:20:55 PM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 09:39:58 PM

Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.

I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.

Tell munchkin to stop picking players (picking is for basketball only) then we'll give him a stump to stand on. Otherwiz, fuck Saban in dat mouth with PM's spare tire.

jmar · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:33:28 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 20, 2013, 08:13:09 AM

That silly stuff Malzahn runs isn't football. We got to get away from that. He's the devil, people. The devil. Can't be running that devil voodoo at our program.

I'm voodoo with a lake yall!

The Prowler · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:56:28 PM »

Quote from: RWS on July 19, 2013, 08:06:30 PM

...in one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....

You want the truth? The 2010 loss to Auburn happened because Auburn changed up their signaling. As for the loss against aTm, you stated that the uat players were beatdown tired after the LSU game, right? I agree they were dead legged, but LSU doesn't run the HUNH. So, why were the players tired? Probably because it didn't matter what type of Offense that you go against, stamina is the name of the game.

RWS · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2013, 09:37:54 PM »

Quote from: The Prowler on July 20, 2013, 07:56:28 PM

You want the truth? The 2010 loss to Auburn happened because Auburn changed up their signaling.

Just to expand upon that statement.....

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/how_the_2010_iron_bowl_got_tur.html

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The drawback of running a no-huddle offense is signals can be more easily deciphered. Auburn graduate assistant Rhett Lashlee, who worked closely with offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn, said he's sure Alabama picked up on a few calls.

"We were able to change some things up, but we didn't overhaul like crazy," Lashlee said. "I never felt they knew everything and that's why we were struggling (early in the game). They had a good plan and just executed."

Zachery said Auburn changed the meaning of the signals in the second half. "Teams were reading our signals all year," he said. "So we just made adjustments in the second half. We had more than one play for each signal. That was routine."

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As for the loss against aTm, you stated that the uat players were beatdown tired after the LSU game, right? I agree they were dead legged, but LSU doesn't run the HUNH. So, why were the players tired? Probably because it didn't matter what type of Offense that you go against, stamina is the name of the game.

You can have all the stamina in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel like it's Week 1 after playing LSU. It takes a physical and mental toll. Stamina doesn't cure all that ails you.

The Prowler · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2013, 08:24:59 AM »

Quote from: RWS on July 20, 2013, 09:37:54 PM

Just to expand upon that statement.....

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/how_the_2010_iron_bowl_got_tur.htmlYou can have all the stamina in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel like it's Week 1 after playing LSU. It takes a physical and mental toll. Stamina doesn't cure all that ails you.

Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?

Buzz Killington · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2013, 10:42:44 AM »

Quote from: The Prowler on July 21, 2013, 08:24:59 AM

Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?

Obviously whichever causes them to miss out on the MNC game...

Townhallsavoy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:17:56 AM »

Quote from: The Prowler on July 21, 2013, 08:24:59 AM

Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?

One of the better counterarguments actually.

If anything, if we're talking about which style of offense and defense is more risky and more likely to be frowned upon by the concussion-scaremongers, it's Alabama.

Forget the fullback. How about their running backs? 6'0 250 steroid freaks running full speed down hill looking to plow through people.

In fact, Alabama is known for being the team that's physical. They wear people down. Just listen to commentators during a typical Alabama game. Big, strong, and physical. That's the Alabama way.

Unless it's 100 degrees outside, the worst effect the HUNH is going to have on a defense is fatigue and making them run slowly. They'll gasp for breath and if it's bad enough they'll fall down needing to be taken out.

60 plays of a behemoth slamming his head into you causes concussions, bodily injuries, and physical wear.