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George Wallace's daughter: Dumb

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George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« on: June 10, 2013, 01:09:55 PM »
Quote
http://blog.al.com/tuscaloosa/2013/06/wallaces_daughter_speaks_about.html#incart_river_default

Why did daddy stand in the schoolhouse door?  I really don't know.


How stupid can she be?  I'm not nearly her age.  I worked on Wallace's last campaign in 1982 before I could even vote.  I had the opportunity to spend some time with him on a campaign swing through my county.  We'd do the speech, get in the limo and drive to the next stop, five stops in all that took all day. 

He was very old and very tired by that point, just a shell of the man he was in 1963.  But he enjoyed talking about history, politics and his role in that with people who cared to listen. I did.

He told me then that his stance on segregation and integration was a response to his duty to the will of the people. 

It's convenient to forget, but George Wallace wasn't standing up there by himself while the rest of the state booed him and threw fruit.  He was standing there with the full backing of most of your grandfathers and grandmothers (or great grandfathers depending on your age). 

His job was to protect the wishes of the people who voted him into office.  He did. 

Beyond that he told me that had he not been the one to stand there as the official representative of the people things could have gotten ugly. 

The stand in the door was symbolic.  He knew -- and he said this out of his own mouth -- that he wasn't going to prevent anyone from entering, all he was going to do was prevent anybody from getting killed in the process.

If he stood there, then the angry mob would let him do their talking and not resort to violence.  It was a very tense situation and if he hadn't been there and done that YOUR grandfather or yours or yours or yours might have decided to do something.  Maybe with a bat.  Or a gun.  And then what? 

Yeah, he stuck with it too long probably.  But he believed that people, voting people, had a right to make up their own minds without the interference of the federal government and that elected officials had a duty to express the will of their people. 

I can't believe his daughter could possibly be so stupid and obtuse. 

Frankly, we need a lot more George Wallaces and a lot fewer Barack Obamas.  And that comment has nothing to do with race. 
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 01:25:58 PM »
Quote
But he believed that people, voting people, had a right to make up their own minds without the interference of the federal government and that elected officials had a duty to express the will of their people.

While I agree with your basic premise that the elected serve to express the will of the electorate, you can't just throw up the Ollie North defense when facing an issue that puts you squarely on the wrong side morally.
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 01:27:11 PM »
Quote
He told me then that his stance on segregation and integration was a response to his duty to the will of the people. 

It's convenient to forget, but George Wallace wasn't standing up there by himself while the rest of the state booed him and threw fruit.  He was standing there with the full backing of most of your grandfathers and grandmothers (or great grandfathers depending on your age). 

His job was to protect the wishes of the people who voted him into office.  He did. 

Our government isn't a pure democracy but rather a constitutional republic.  His stand was only representative of his and his voting constituents' desire to oppress a particular minority at a public institution. 

Quote
After all, the practical reason why, when the power is once in the hands of the people, a majority are permitted, and for a long period continue, to rule, is not because they are most likely to be in the right, nor because this seems fairest to the minority, but because they are physically the strongest. But a government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it. Can there not be a government in which majorities do not virtually decide right and wrong, but conscience? - Henry David Thoreau
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 02:04:09 PM »
Pffffttt on both of you.

Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like. 

So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people. 

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT.  Double pfffftttttt. 

Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing. 
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 02:19:34 PM »
Pffffttt on both of you.

Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like. 

So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people. 

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT.  Double pfffftttttt. 

Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing.

How could that be construed as anything other than oppressing people?
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 02:29:38 PM »

Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like. 

Duly noted.  Your views on the Great Depression, Civil War, Industrial Revolution and pretty much everything that pre-dates your birth are now officially null and void.

What a stupid thing to say.

Quote

So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people. 


If they favored segregation, yes.  Being in the majority or related to me doesn't absolve anyone from being immoral and taking a reprehensible stance.

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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 02:51:11 PM »
Pffffttt on both of you.

Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like. 

So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people. 

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT.  Double pfffftttttt. 

Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing.
^^^This. He did what he had to do and I believe that he regretted having to do it. As you noted, he knew that it was symbolic. He was a masterful politician. And at the time, seperate but equal was NOT considered morally wrong or oppressive by most of the voters in this state. It was strongly supported. Years of reflection, propaganda and public relations can change a lot of views.

I personally know people who wish it were still like that. I can't wish that on anyone. I can't imagine having to eat in the back of a restaurant or sit in the back of the bus because of my race but some people will never change their view on that.

At the same time, my view is conflicted because I think that if a private establishment wants to only serve dyslexic, bipolar Mexicans--they should have the right to do so. And let the free-market take care of that. But, that's not something that the free market can readily solve.

And what happened to the spell checker?
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 03:00:42 PM »


At the same time, my view is conflicted because I think that if a private establishment wants to only serve dyslexic, bipolar Mexicans--they should have the right to do so. And let the free-market take care of that. But, that's not something that the free market can readily solve.


Was the University of Alabama a private establishment at the time?

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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 03:01:57 PM »
Was the University of Alabama a private establishment at the time?
To my head, it's always been public. But I gots the googles if you would like me to check.
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 03:08:50 PM »
To my head, it's always been public. But I gots the googles if you would like me to check.

Pretty sure that was rhetorical.  Your "conflict" about a restaurateurs' obligation to serve all takers is a red-herring in a discussion about state-sponsored segregation.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 03:13:38 PM »
Pretty sure that was rhetorical.  Your "conflict" about a restaurateurs' obligation to serve all takers is a red-herring in a discussion about state-sponsored segregation.
I don't think red-herrings are allowed on here and I know he was pointing to that. Anyway, I don't see it as that. The attitude is the same whether it's public or private.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 03:22:44 PM »
Duly noted.  Your views on the Great Depression, Civil War, Industrial Revolution and pretty much everything that pre-dates your birth are now officially null and void.

What a stupid thing to say.

If they favored segregation, yes.  Being in the majority or related to me doesn't absolve anyone from being immoral and taking a reprehensible stance.
This  X 10,000. Obama supporters shall not be absolved for their inequities !
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Vandy Vol

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 05:25:52 PM »
Frankly, we need a lot more George Wallaces and a lot fewer Barack Obamas.  And that comment has nothing to do with race.

I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 05:55:21 PM »
I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.
I'm a Guy Hunt man meself. I think that vaccum cleaner sales experience is more pertinent in public service than being a community orgainizer.
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Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 06:33:40 PM »
I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.

First political candidate I remember seeing.  Brewer got screwed over pretty much. 

It's really easy to sit back today and throw stones at the "morally reprehensible" people of a different age.  When people look back on us 50 years from now they'll laugh at some of the "morally reprehensible" and short-sighted and corrupt things we did.  Your grandchildren will scorn the "morally reprehensible" positions you and your family took -- because that's the way things are today and we accept it without a second thought. 

Bullcrap like The Help and Roots and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter color the way people of today view events of the past.  The entire South was full of red-faced, bacca chawin', white shirt wearing country gumps who went to Klan rallies on the weekend, treated their black help like second class citizens and if they got uppity, why they just whooped 'em. 

Pffffffffffftttttttttttt

Garbage.

Most southern whites didn't own slaves.  Slaves were expensive.  In today's dollar a slave was roughly equivalent to a Mercedes.  How many people you see beating their cars with chains if it doesn't run right?

From TV, who was the biggest racist you can remember?  Archie Bunker. Where'd he live again?   

As far as my views of the Depression, Civil War, Ancient Rome or the forays of Ghengis Khan yes, they would pale in comparison to those of someone who experienced that era.

It's a little like Bo Jackson.  You may have seen him on film and recognize his greatness, but unless you lived through the nine dark years before he arrived at Auburn and were in some of the stadiums when he ran over, through and around entire defenses you cannot fully appreciate just what he meant to Auburn and what a jaw-dropping athlete he was. 

I never saw Jim Thorpe or Red Grange.  I'm sure they were amazing athletes.  I SAW Bo.  I saw him with my own eyes.  There are kids today for whom Bo is nothing more than a Grange or Thorpe.  The want to compare him to Mark Ingram or some lackluster toad like that.  Because they don't know.  They didn't see. 

I saw. 

I'm not that old and I saw what things were like.  I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater.  I saw people get along for the most part.  I saw the generational change where people who were 15-20 years older than me decided that the old ways weren't going to work for them.  And they bucked the system.  The minority did.  The majority was used to the way things were. 

Who was Rosa Parks?  Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no.  Go check out her own museum.  She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.

You seriously think people are better off today?  Back then families cared for families (not like it was on garbage like The Help). Now?  So many of those people who were employed by families are wards of the government, living in government homes and drawing government checks. 

An entire society dependent on benevolent government handouts has been created where just a generation ago most people earned their own keep. 

But it's better now, right?  Because you watched The Help and Minnie ain't got to make no mo' doo doo pies. 

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 06:56:35 PM »

Who was Rosa Parks?  Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no.  Go check out her own museum.  She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 07:07:38 PM »
First political candidate I remember seeing.  Brewer got screwed over pretty much. 

It's really easy to sit back today and throw stones at the "morally reprehensible" people of a different age.  When people look back on us 50 years from now they'll laugh at some of the "morally reprehensible" and short-sighted and corrupt things we did.  Your grandchildren will scorn the "morally reprehensible" positions you and your family took -- because that's the way things are today and we accept it without a second thought. 

Bullcrap like The Help and Roots and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter color the way people of today view events of the past.  The entire South was full of red-faced, bacca chawin', white shirt wearing country gumps who went to Klan rallies on the weekend, treated their black help like second class citizens and if they got uppity, why they just whooped 'em. 

Pffffffffffftttttttttttt

Garbage.

Most southern whites didn't own slaves.  Slaves were expensive.  In today's dollar a slave was roughly equivalent to a Mercedes.  How many people you see beating their cars with chains if it doesn't run right?

From TV, who was the biggest racist you can remember?  Archie Bunker. Where'd he live again?   

As far as my views of the Depression, Civil War, Ancient Rome or the forays of Ghengis Khan yes, they would pale in comparison to those of someone who experienced that era.

It's a little like Bo Jackson.  You may have seen him on film and recognize his greatness, but unless you lived through the nine dark years before he arrived at Auburn and were in some of the stadiums when he ran over, through and around entire defenses you cannot fully appreciate just what he meant to Auburn and what a jaw-dropping athlete he was. 

I never saw Jim Thorpe or Red Grange.  I'm sure they were amazing athletes.  I SAW Bo.  I saw him with my own eyes.  There are kids today for whom Bo is nothing more than a Grange or Thorpe.  The want to compare him to Mark Ingram or some lackluster toad like that.  Because they don't know.  They didn't see. 

I saw. 

I'm not that old and I saw what things were like.  I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater.  I saw people get along for the most part.  I saw the generational change where people who were 15-20 years older than me decided that the old ways weren't going to work for them.  And they bucked the system.  The minority did.  The majority was used to the way things were. 

Who was Rosa Parks?  Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no.  Go check out her own museum.  She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.

You seriously think people are better off today?  Back then families cared for families (not like it was on garbage like The Help). Now?  So many of those people who were employed by families are wards of the government, living in government homes and drawing government checks. 

An entire society dependent on benevolent government handouts has been created where just a generation ago most people earned their own keep. 

But it's better now, right?  Because you watched The Help and Minnie ain't got to make no mo' doo doo pies. 

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Those who have been erroneously educated by a librul government have no idea of how the times went.

Poor old George. He felt so guilty of his acts that as soon as he got a chance, he made Alabama one of the biggest minority friendly states in the union.

Anybody who looks at him and still only thinks of his stance in the doorway is a fool. There was so much more.
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2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

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Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2013, 08:44:18 PM »
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19830209&id=KbslAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EfMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1030,2531533

Absolute unmitigated horse manure and the beginnings of the posthumous deification of Bryant. 

That's the biggest load of cow dung I've ever read.  Completely and totally false, a revision of history intended to speed Bryant on the way to saintdom. 

If an elk crapped on a piece of paper it would have more truth and meaning than that. 
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2013, 08:46:01 PM »
I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater.  I saw people get along for the most part...
 
You seriously think people are better off today? 

Judas...there is no way to discuss this with you.  Really?
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.