Thoughts - 2012

[AUChizad]

Agree again.

The Republicans will never win an election again until they purge the party of the homophobes, the racists, and the willfully ignorant (science don't know shit!), and cast them off to some weird third party of moral ultraconservatives. Instead they've taken the fiscally responsible who are connected with reality of modern society and made them the outcasts that make up the Libertarian party. Never mind that their ideals are far and away more aligned with the vast majority of the American people. I've learned after voting Libertarian in the past two elections that people just simply will not think outside the box enough to vote third party. No matter what. So if we can't bring Libertarianism as a third party into the mainstream, we have to make it into the Republican party. If the Republican party wants votes in a modern society, it's what they have to do to survive. The old folks who can't stand the idea of the brown folk living amongst them, and think that being gay is a disease, and who can't be bothered with all that scientific data hokus pokus, and think that the body has ways of naturally dissolving rape babies are dying out. Or they are at least growing increasingly too frail to get out of their retirement homes and vote. The Republican party has to take a long hard look at itself and adapt or die. Keep rejecting Darwinism, and they'll be another one of its victims.

[CCTAU]

- The Latino vote, how in the world did we not go after the "brown people"?  I know several Latino's, middle class, upper class and lower class.  All of them I know are very socially conservative, predominantly Catholic, very family oriented and in their personal finances are very fiscally conservative.  We screwed up.  Instead of screaming " THEY ARE TAKING OUR JOBS!!!!! DEPORT THEM ALL!!!! MAKE THEM SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!", *we should have said "Hey, we see that you share a lot of our values, we see that you are wanting to work and make a better life for yourself.  Let us help you by making a feasible pathway to citizenship so you can be here legally."  Then they could be paying into the system that they take advantage of.   I laugh at the "They are taking jobs away from American's argument".  I don't many Americans that are willing to go work in the orchards for $7/hour except maybe some broke college kids or high school kids in the summer and most of them would rather work some where indoors.  Instead of leading the charge we allowed the Dems to sweep in, give them amnesty and lock up their votes.  Well played Dems, well played. *

Therein lies the rub. The "Latino" vote for any "Latino" that is here legally and working as a middle class family had no problem with the republican stance. The gimmes that are part of the half-legal families weren't gonna vote right anyway. They were looking for more free shit. And believe me, they are getting it already. They have learned to play the system well as anyone. As a party we did exactly the right thing. The only way to get that part of the vote was to GIVE away something. That goes against what the republican party is in the first place. And Romney did state that there would be a pathway to citizenship. When we become the gimme party, it will be over. It may be already.

The "FREE SHIT" party is in charge now. As someone stated earlier, It's hard to compete with the black santy claws!

[AUTiger1]

Here's the thing though.  None of the social shit matters when the economy is in the shitter.  This election should have been about the economy, and it was for the most part, but damned if abortion and gay marriage wouldn't rear it's ugly head once a week and shift the talk away from the economy for a day or two.   

I just don't care about social issues anymore, even if I do or don't agree with them.  I just don't.  I am numb to them.   You want to smoke pot, I don't care.  You want to have an abortion, I don't care.  You want to live with another man, I don't care.  The moment it infringes on me and my households freedom, then I will raise hell, but if you won't to do those things in privacy, then knock yourself out.

I never said the Republican party had to abandon their social platform, but they do need to re-frame and use some new "wordification" to debate and promote those stances. 

[AUTiger1]

Therein lies the rub. The "Latino" vote for any "Latino" that is here legally and working as a middle class family had no problem with the republican stance. The gimmes that are part of the half-legal families weren't gonna vote right anyway. They were looking for more free shit. And believe me, they are getting it already. They have learned to play the system well as anyone. As a party we did exactly the right thing. The only way to get that part of the vote was to GIVE away something. That goes against what the republican party is in the first place. And Romney did state that there would be a pathway to citizenship. When we become the gimme party, it will be over. It may be already.

The "FREE SHIT" party is in charge now. As someone stated earlier, It's hard to compete with the black santy claws!

So you totally disagreed with Bush's immigration policy that was shot down by the Senate?

[CCTAU]

Agree again.

The Republicans will never win an election again until they purge the party of the homophobes, the racists, and the willfully ignorant (science don't know shit!), and cast them off to some weird third party of moral ultraconservatives. Instead they've taken the fiscally responsible who are connected with reality of modern society and made them the outcasts that make up the Libertarian party. Never mind that their ideals are far and away more aligned with the vast majority of the American people. I've learned after voting Libertarian in the past two elections that people just simply will not think outside the box enough to vote third party. No matter what. So if we can't bring Libertarianism as a third party into the mainstream, we have to make it into the Republican party. If the Republican party wants votes in a modern society, it's what they have to do to survive. The old folks who can't stand the idea of the brown folk living amongst them, and think that being gay is a disease, and who can't be bothered with all that scientific data hokus pokus, and think that the body has ways of naturally dissolving rape babies are dying out. Or they are at least growing increasingly too frail to get out of their retirement homes and vote. The Republican party has to take a long hard look at itself and adapt or die. Keep rejecting Darwinism, and they'll be another one of its victims.

Bullshit. It's God, guns, and country for a reason. Throw any of those things out and you might as well vote democrat. And any ID10T could see that the republican party did not PUSH ANY of the social agendas. They stuck to the economy. The economy is shit and people don't care because all they want is theirs.

And accept Darwinism? Really? That was a deciding factor in the election? If the republicans denounced God, embraced global warming, and believed wholeheartedly in evolution, they would have won?

You have bypassed libertarianism and have move straight to center left as a democrat. 

[AUChizad]

Bullshit. It's God, guns, and country for a reason. Throw any of those things out and you might as well vote democrat. And any ID10T could see that the republican party did not PUSH ANY of the social agendas. They stuck to the economy. The economy is shit and people don't care because all they want is theirs.

And accept Darwinism? Really? That was a deciding factor in the election? If the republicans denounced God, embraced global warming, and believed wholeheartedly in evolution, they would have won?

You have bypassed libertarianism and have move straight to center left as a democrat.

First of all, I was using Darwinism as a metaphor. Adapt or die. I didn't expect you to get that.

Secondly, you obviously don't understand the Libertarian platform on science & religion.

Third: Climate Change. It's a thing. You want to keep denying it (and I'm sure you're not the only one here), then you're going to start being filed with the Holocaust deniers. Same with evolution. Neither requires you to denounce God.

This conspiracy theory paranoia that scientists are trying to kill your God and drain society of religion is a part of the problem being discussed in this thread, IMO.

[AUChizad]

To expound on the climate change thing...I'm expecting more than just CCTAU to be outraged by that part...

It's real. Science has collected enough data now to prove that it's as real as gravity.

The issue then becomes how to deal with it. To me, the difference between how the two parties should deal with it, is while the Democrats are flipping their shit obsessing over their carbon footprint and staying green through over-regulation, limiting transportation or anything that may consume "too much" energy, etc. etc. Republicans should be looking at clean energy alternatives, specifically ones that are cost efficient. While Democrats are trying to make everything but LED lightbulbs (at the risk of kicking that debate up again) and hybrid cars illegal, Republicans should be figuring out ways to make them attractive affordable cost efficient models that the free market drives people to. That's starting to happen naturally already. LED bulbs may be more expensive, but you don't have to change them nearly as often, saving money in the long run. Same with Hybrid cars and saving money on gasoline. Meanwhile, if you prefer the old-fashioned bulbs or a gas-guzzling Hummer, then that's your choice and you're free to do that, at your own financial risk. That, in my mind, should be the conservative approach to these types of issues.

And more to the point, it could even be part of the Republican platform to not give much of a fuck about it, within reason. But to deny it outright is becoming more and more ridiculous every day.

[Godfather]

Agree.  So why should one candidate get all of those votes when 38.6% of the voters didn't vote that way?

Isn't that the same as saying their opinion/voice/vote doesn't matter?  Hello N. Korea

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

[CCTAU]

So you totally disagreed with Bush's immigration policy that was shot down by the Senate?

I didn't like it. I knew that once he granted those 8 million a temporary pass, nothing would happen when the time was up. But the policy was a better start than any proposed yet. We needed to close the borders. And deport the violators. The problem with any policy so far is that none of them had any teeth.

[CCTAU]

To expound on the climate change thing...I'm expecting more than just CCTAU to be outraged by that part...

It's real. Science has collected enough data now to prove that it's as real as gravity.

The issue then becomes how to deal with it. To me, the difference between how the two parties should deal with it, is while the Democrats are flipping their shit obsessing over their carbon footprint and staying green through over-regulation, limiting transportation or anything that may consume "too much" energy, etc. etc. Republicans should be looking at clean energy alternatives, specifically ones that are cost efficient. While Democrats are trying to make everything but LED lightbulbs (at the risk of kicking that debate up again) and hybrid cars illegal, Republicans should be figuring out ways to make them attractive affordable cost efficient models that the free market drives people to. That's starting to happen naturally already. LED bulbs may be more expensive, but you don't have to change them nearly as often, saving money in the long run. Same with Hybrid cars and saving money on gasoline. Meanwhile, if you prefer the old-fashioned bulbs or a gas-guzzling Hummer, then that's your choice and you're free to do that, at your own financial risk. That, in my mind, should be the conservative approach to these types of issues.

And more to the point, it could even be part of the Republican platform to not give much of a fuck about it, within reason. But to deny it outright is becoming more and more ridiculous every day.

Well. You could start by stating whether or not you were referring to global warming or climate change.


Of course we have climate change. There is no evidence that it is due to MAN alone. We do know that an ice age occurred at some time, I'm sure that the aliens and there carbon burning machines contributed to that also.

Does the earth go through changes? Of course. Do we need to shit our pants because of it? NO.

Is it a good idea to use more efficient products? Of course. Should I have my nuts cut off if I choose not to?

Really? Hybrid cars is an argument. The same cars that pollute in the long run about as much as a comparable combustion engine? And not to mention, not one of them is produced at a decent cost without the damned government subsidizing them. 

20 years ago salt was bad for you. Then 10 years after that, it was OK. Then ten years after that, it was bad for you. 

In the 70's we were cooling. Oh shit, we're gonna freeze. 20 years later we are warming. Oh shit, we're toast.

Nobody is denying that it change exists. We are just tired of the bullshit being fed to us without the proof that it is man's fault and not just a natural shift (hard to study data from 1000 years ago). You want to worship the earth, go ahead but don't include me. I will continue to be a good steward of the land, but I will not worship it.

And that is the republican platform. Be a good steward but don't give billions toward fantasy GREEN energy.

[CCTAU]

So you totally disagreed with Bush's immigration policy that was shot down by the Senate?

And now it's the great ONE's turn:

GIVE US OUR AMNESTY, PUTA!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/latino-groups-obama-owe-latinos-election-now-pass-194113601--election.html

[AUTiger1]

I didn't like it. I knew that once he granted those 8 million a temporary pass, nothing would happen when the time was up. But the policy was a better start than any proposed yet. We needed to close the borders. And deport the violators. The problem with any policy so far is that none of them had any teeth.

If you think that nothing would happen when the time was up, then how do you expect to deport the violators?  You can't and won't.  You can't round them up and place them in concentration camps until you verify them and then bus them out. 

And now it's the great ONE's turn:

GIVE US OUR AMNESTY, PUTA!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/latino-groups-obama-owe-latinos-election-now-pass-194113601--election.html

Bush wasn't offering amnesty and was actually making inroads with the Latino vote only to be shot down by the senate. 

From the article:

The heavy pro-Obama Latino vote also sends a message to the Republican Party, which needs to make inroads in the fast-growing Hispanic community to survive. Ana Navarro, a Miami-based Republican political strategist who had warned Republicans to take a softer tone on immigration if they wanted to win the election, wrote on Twitter that gaining only 27 percent of the Latino vote is a "disgrace."

Most Latino voters said in the Latino Decisions poll that the most important issues to them in this election were the economy and jobs. Thirty-five percent of the voters listed immigration reform as their key issue.

"Our party needs to realize that it's too old and too white and too male, and it needs to figure out how to catch up with the demographics of the country before it's too late," Al Cardenas, the head of the American Conservative Union, told Politico. "Our party needs a lot of work to do if we expect to be competitive in the near future."

Ole Al is correct.  If the republicans want to win another election, then they need to figure out how to make inroads with them quickly or we will have Democrats winning in landslides from now on. 

[bottomfeeder]

"Every time Romney made one of his 'let's get the economy going again' speeches extolling the virtues of hard work he terrified the millions of welfare bums and parasites and motivated them more than ever to stand in line for hours to vote for Santa Claus Obama, their 'savior' from having to work for a living. (It's always the low opportunity cost class that has the 'luxury' of spending half a day or more standing in a line). The plunderers now outnumber the plundered and capital is fleeing the country before it's too late," says Thomas DiLorenzo.

[GH2001]

To expound on the climate change thing...I'm expecting more than just CCTAU to be outraged by that part...

It's real. Science has collected enough data now to prove that it's as real as gravity.

The issue then becomes how to deal with it. To me, the difference between how the two parties should deal with it, is while the Democrats are flipping their shit obsessing over their carbon footprint and staying green through over-regulation, limiting transportation or anything that may consume "too much" energy, etc. etc. Republicans should be looking at clean energy alternatives, specifically ones that are cost efficient. While Democrats are trying to make everything but LED lightbulbs (at the risk of kicking that debate up again) and hybrid cars illegal, Republicans should be figuring out ways to make them attractive affordable cost efficient models that the free market drives people to. That's starting to happen naturally already. LED bulbs may be more expensive, but you don't have to change them nearly as often, saving money in the long run. Same with Hybrid cars and saving money on gasoline. Meanwhile, if you prefer the old-fashioned bulbs or a gas-guzzling Hummer, then that's your choice and you're free to do that, at your own financial risk. That, in my mind, should be the conservative approach to these types of issues.

And more to the point, it could even be part of the Republican platform to not give much of a fuck about it, within reason. But to deny it outright is becoming more and more ridiculous every day.

Thinking climate change exists and thinking it exists because of too many F150s and factories, are two different things. Of course it exists. It is and has been very cyclical for centuries, and way before smog or internal combustion. We really don't give mother nature enough credit for how powerful the earths natural forces when we think we as humans with a few cars can totally change the earths environment. There are gases and powers below the earth that scoff at how powerful we think we are.

[GH2001]

If you think that nothing would happen when the time was up, then how do you expect to deport the violators?  You can't and won't.  You can't round them up and place them in concentration camps until you verify them and then bus them out. 


Bush wasn't offering amnesty and was actually making inroads with the Latino vote only to be shot down by the senate. 

From the article:
Ole Al is correct.  If the republicans want to win another election, then they need to figure out how to make inroads with them quickly or we will have Democrats winning in landslides from now on.

This is why I liked newts idea during the GOP primary. Of course everyone but Ron Paul and Herman cain jumped on him for it trying to label it as amnesty when it wasn't. It was a good middle ground that would have appealed to Latinos. But screw it, off with his head.

[CCTAU]

This is why I liked newts idea during the GOP primary. Of course everyone but Ron Paul and Herman cain jumped on him for it trying to label it as amnesty when it wasn't. It was a good middle ground that would have appealed to Latinos. But screw it, off with his head.

The problem with any of this is that everyone wants the votes, but nobody wants to stem the tide.

The republican party just needs to get on the bandwagon and lie like hell. HELL YES. WE'VE SEEN THE LIGHT. AMNESTY FOR ANYONE HERE. And then do what they want. That is what the dems are doing.

Its hard fight against a group of liars who say anything to get elected and then do what they want while nobody holds them to their lies. We want to win by doing the right thing. It's not working. Its time to get slimy! And I'm not sure that will fly.

[GH2001]

The problem with any of this is that everyone wants the votes, but nobody wants to stem the tide.

The republican party just needs to get on the bandwagon and lie like hell. HELL YES. WE'VE SEEN THE LIGHT. AMNESTY FOR ANYONE HERE. And then do what they want. That is what the dems are doing.

Its hard fight against a group of liars who say anything to get elected and then do what they want while nobody holds them to their lies. We want to win by doing the right thing. It's not working. Its time to get slimy! And I'm not sure that will fly.

Newts plan wasn't amnesty. You would believe there are two choices Listening to both dems and the GOP - amnesty and deportation. That's just not true. We've created the industrial age and put men on the moon. We can surely figure out a constructive way to deal with illegal immigration. Theres a nice middle ground we could come up with. But anyone who takes that approach gets scoffed at like newt did.

[CCTAU]

Newts plan wasn't amnesty. You would believe there are two choices Listening to both dems and the GOP - amnesty and deportation. That's just not true. We've created the industrial age and put men on the moon. We can surely figure out a constructive way to deal with illegal immigration. Theres a nice middle ground we could come up with. But anyone who takes that approach gets scoffed at like newt did.

You cannot win with the same plan. We just proved it. Gotta have a better one. If you want the "free shit" crowd's vote, you gotta give them more.

AMNESTY baby! And then DON'T!

[AUTiger1]

Newts plan wasn't amnesty. You would believe there are two choices Listening to both dems and the GOP - amnesty and deportation. That's just not true. We've created the industrial age and put men on the moon. We can surely figure out a constructive way to deal with illegal immigration. Theres a nice middle ground we could come up with. But anyone who takes that approach gets scoffed at like newt did.

They are here and are not going away.  This issue was too much of a political football for each side to punt back and forth so they could play the blame game.  No one wanted to touch it and lets be honest, they still don't want to touch it.  Bush's plan was pretty damn good.  What really pisses me off is shit like this.

Hannity: I've 'evolved' on immigration and support a 'pathway to citizenship'

By MACKENZIE WEINGER |
11/8/12 6:32 PM EST

Sean Hannity said Thursday he has “evolved” on immigration and now supports a “pathway to citizenship.”

Hannity told his radio listeners Thursday afternoon that the United States needs to “get rid of the immigration issue altogether.”

“It’s simple to me to fix it,” Hannity said. “I think you control the border first. You create a pathway for those people that are here — you don’t say you’ve got to go home. And that is a position that I’ve evolved on. Because, you know what, it’s got to be resolved. The majority of people here, if some people have criminal records you can send them home, but if people are here, law-abiding, participating for years, their kids are born here, you know, first secure the border, pathway to citizenship, done.”

“You can’t let the problem continue — it’s got to stop,” the conservative radio host added.

So, you mean to tell me that this same plan that your NeoCon hero was trying to pass was bullshit in 2006, but now it's great?  I'm sure it had nothing to do with losing the Latino vote.  Nah, couldn't have been.   Hear me now and watch it happen tomorrow, many Republican talking heads will now get on this train and have their listeners believing this is the way to go when we could have done it in 06 and this issue wouldn't be an issue today.   

[Townhallsavoy]

They are here and are not going away.  This issue was too much of a political football for each side to punt back and forth so they could play the blame game.  No one wanted to touch it and lets be honest, they still don't want to touch it.  Bush's plan was pretty damn good.  What really pisses me off is shit like this.

So, you mean to tell me that this same plan that your NeoCon hero was trying to pass was bullshit in 2006, but now it's great?  I'm sure it had nothing to do with losing the Latino vote.  Nah, couldn't have been.   Hear me now and watch it happen tomorrow, many Republican talking heads will now get on this train and have their listeners believing this is the way to go when we could have done it in 06 and this issue wouldn't be an issue today.   

What does it matter?

The American people are so stupid that they'll never put two and two together anyway.  Hannity's always had this stance.  He's always been pro-immigration, just like Republicans.  Republicans are for late term abortions, gay marriage, and a weak military.  Or no that's Democrats.  Or Libertarians.  Whatever.  Fuck you. 

Have you ever read Fahrenheit 451?  You should.  Throw 1984 in there as well.