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Honestly....

djsimp

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Honestly....
« on: July 04, 2012, 10:23:07 AM »
....this kind of scares me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-science-higgs-idUSBRE86008K20120704

Sure, its an incredible find but this to me spells danger in the hands of any human.
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bottomfeeder

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 03:40:09 PM »
The anti-log/inverse could prove dangerous, but it could also open the door to a new energy source.
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AUChizad

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 08:08:47 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/shortcuts/2012/jul/04/how-explain-higgs-boson-discovery?CMP=twt_gu

Quote
How to explain Higgs boson discovery
Everyone's talking about the 'God particle' – but what if someone asks you to explain it. Well, it depends if it's an A-level physics student or a religious fundamentalist. Just use our guide

The possible discovery of the Higgs boson at CERN is obviously of tremendous importance to our understanding of the universe, but how does one explain the Higgs boson to a layperson, a child, an idiot? A lot depends on who you're talking to, and what they want to hear. Just use this handy guide to selective explanation:

For people you're trying to impress: "The Higgs boson is an elementary scalar particle first posited in 1962, as a potential byproduct of the mechanism by which a hypothetical, ubiquitous quantum field – the so-called Higgs field – gives mass to elementary particles. More specifically, in the standard model of particle physics, the existence of the Higgs boson explains how spontaneous breaking of electroweak symmetry takes place in nature."

For harassed, sleep-deprived parents: "If the constituent parts of matter were sticky-faced toddlers, then the Higgs field would be like one of those ball pits they have in the children's play area at IKEA. Each coloured plastic ball represents a Higgs boson: collectively they provide the essential drag that stops your toddler/electron falling to the bottom of the universe, where all the snakes and hypodermic needles are."

For English undergraduates: "The Higgs boson (pronounced "boatswain") is a type of subatomic punctuation with a weight somewhere between a tiny semicolon and an invisible comma. Without it the universe would be a meaningless cloud of gibberish – a bit like The Da Vinci Code, if you read that."

For teenagers studying A-level physics: "No, I know it's not an atom. I didn't say it was. Well, I meant a particle. Yes, I do know what electromagnetism is, thank you very much – unified forces, Einstein, blah blah blah, mass unaccounted for, yadda yadda, quarks, Higgs boson, the end. It was a long time ago, and I'm tired. Change the channel – we're missing Come Dine With Me."

For a member of the Taxpayers' Alliance: "Its discovery is a colossal, unprecedented, almost infinite waste of money."

For a child in the back seat of a car: "It's a particle that some scientists have been looking for. Because they knew that without it the universe would be impossible. Because without it, the other particles in the universe wouldn't have mass. Because they would all continue to travel at the speed of light, just like photons do. Because I just said they would, and if you ask 'Why?' one more time we're not stopping at Burger King."

For religious fundamentalists: "There is no Higgs boson."
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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 09:40:11 AM »
Fuck all that science shit.  Just tell me if we can split it and which country of non-white people we're going to throw it at. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Buzz Killington

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 09:46:44 AM »
Fuck all that science shit.  Just tell me if we can split it and which country of non-white people we're going to throw it at.

Fuck YEAH!!! MURICAH!!!
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.

AUChizad

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 10:52:00 AM »
For religious fundamentalists: "There is no Higgs boson."

Should have said "It's really just a Jesus booger."
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Ogre

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 03:08:23 PM »
Should have said "It's really just a Jesus booger."
[/u]

Maybe I'm a simpleton but I don't see how this discovery helps to prove or disprove that there is a God.    Please, someone enlighten me.
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wesfau2

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2012, 03:10:36 PM »
[/u]

Maybe I'm a simpleton but I don't see how this discovery helps to prove or disprove that there is a God.    Please, someone enlighten me.

I don't think anyone is saying that the discovery will do either of those things.  The author was being funny.
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Godfather

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2012, 03:16:27 PM »

Maybe I'm a simpleton but I don't see how this discovery helps to prove or disprove that there is a God.    Please, someone enlighten me.
As a soul-less ginger, does it really matter?
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Ogre

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2012, 03:18:41 PM »
As a soul-less ginger, does it really matter?

I was asking for a friend...
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Saniflush

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 03:25:42 PM »
I was asking for a friend...

WTF ever.  You don't have friends.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Snaggletiger

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 03:31:46 PM »
You do have gingervitis
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Ogre

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 03:38:44 PM »
WTF ever.  You don't have friends.

You're right.  I'm in a glass case of emotion!!!

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djsimp

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 04:47:05 PM »
[/u]

Maybe I'm a simpleton but I don't see how this discovery helps to prove or disprove that there is a God.    Please, someone enlighten me.

I don't think it does either, this is the reason why I didn't start this thread at the University Chapel. It just my lack of trust in humans to be trusted with this kind of knowledge.

I will say however that, imo, this could actually be more proof of God than less.
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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 05:05:58 PM »


I will say however that, imo, this could actually be more proof of God than less.

How so?
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Tiger Wench

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2012, 05:09:09 PM »
I don't think it does either, this is the reason why I didn't start this thread at the University Chapel. It just my lack of trust in humans to be trusted with this kind of knowledge.

I will say however that, imo, this could actually be more proof of God than less.

You are so right, Carl. As complex and mind blowing as all this is, it becomes even more difficult for me to not see some sort of divine hand in it.
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djsimp

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2012, 05:22:40 PM »
How so?

For myself, I believe God is our creator. So when I see something like this, something so small but so complex, it kind of fascinates me. With that said, I can't find it in myself to believe that this "particle" was made by accident; ironically enough a particle that pulled everything else that was supposedly created by accident.......or just floating around with no purpose. I mean, its hard to even grasp the idea of how God would create all that there is we know, and so so much that we have yet to discover. Who's it to say God didn't create this particle for the sole purpose to pull all the other elements in to make the masterpiece. Its like a programmer creates events through .Net and then calls those events to create code.
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djsimp

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2012, 05:29:35 PM »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 05:32:51 PM »
For myself, I believe God is our creator. So when I see something like this, something so small but so complex, it kind of fascinates me. With that said, I can't find it in myself to believe that this "particle" was made by accident; ironically enough a particle that pulled everything else that was supposedly created by accident.......or just floating around with no purpose. I mean, its hard to even grasp the idea of how God would create all that there is we know, and so so much that we have yet to discover. Who's it to say God didn't create this particle for the sole purpose to pull all the other elements in to make the masterpiece. Its like a programmer creates events through .Net and then calls those events to create code.

Not to turn this into a religious discussion, but anything that intelligently creates something so complex must itself be complex.  If one's logic is that X must have been created by Y because X is extraordinarily complex, then Y, as a complex entity, must also have been created by something complex.  This logic becomes an infinite loop with no definitive conclusion.

Similarly, if you assume that the universe has collapsed upon itself and exploded in a big bang an infinite number of times (or if you assume that there is an infinite number of alternate universes), then it's statistically sound to conclude that the Higgs boson would appear in one of the infinite versions of the universe.  But it's still an assumption that never gives you an answer as to how all matter originated.

What the above essentially boils down to for me is that the discovery of the Higgs boson doesn't lend more evidence to God's existence, or vice versa.  The assumptions that believers and scientists have made prior to this discovery still apply, and the existence of the Higgs boson doesn't lend any more credence to either assumption.
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AUChizad

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Re: Honestly....
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 05:52:35 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#.22God_particle.22

Quote
The Higgs boson is often referred to as the "God particle" by the media,[70] after the title of Leon Lederman's popular science book on particle physics, The God Particle: If the Universe Is the Answer, What Is the Question?[71][72] While use of this term may have contributed to increased media interest,[72] many scientists dislike it, since it overstates the particle's importance, not least since its discovery would still leave unanswered questions about the unification of quantum chromodynamics, the electroweak interaction, and gravity, as well as the ultimate origin of the universe.[70][4] Higgs is an atheist, and is displeased that the Higgs particle is nicknamed the "God particle",[73] because in Higgs's view the term "might offend people who are religious".[74]

Lederman said he gave it the nickname "the God particle" because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,"[70][71][75] but jokingly added that a second reason was because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing."[71]

A renaming competition conducted by the science correspondent for the British Guardian newspaper chose the name "the champagne bottle boson" as the best from among their submissions: "The bottom of a champagne bottle is in the shape of the Higgs potential and is often used as an illustration in physics lectures. So it's not an embarrassingly grandiose name, it is memorable, and [it] has some physics connection too."[76]

I don't think it proves or disproves any existence of God either.

I do think maybe (hopefully?) it sheds some light on how some fundamentalists view science. When I say fundamentalists, I mean people that reject science outright, and find it threatening to their religion. Often, an argument for creationism is "It's a theory that's just as valid as evolution or the Big Bang. They're just theories too," as if Scientists are just guessing. Just throwing shit up against a wall to see what sticks. The fact that way back in 1964 something this specific and complex was "theorized" to be in existence, should hopefully highlight why this is a ridiculous notion.
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