SCOTUS upholds Obamacare

[Token]

So if nothing is changing whatsoever, why the outrage? Why does at least trying to fix the problem make Obama a heretic?

Can't say enough that I disagree with the philosophical aspect of the government forcing people to pay for something they don't want, but there's definitely some hyperbole and blind rage coming from opponents.

Obamepublicrat.  I don't like any of them, and I'm outraged because, yet again, trying to fix a problem led to this.  We already have welfare insurance.  They didn't fix shit, the fact that they spent this much time and money on this problem, to come up with this solution?  I'd have a problem if there wasn't a fucking outrage. 

How anyone can defend this pathetic piece of legislation is incomprehensible.  If people are coming down hard on Obama, it's because THIS was his baby.  Fixing America's healthcare was his ticket.  He, along with every idiot who had a hand in this, FAILED!!

[Token]

Furthermore.  Saving my personal " lifetime story", I've been on my own since I was 17.  I've had a full time job since 2 weeks after I graduated high school.  I'm 31 now, and not once between then and now have I spent a day without health/dental insurance.  Not once. 

If people don't have health insurance, it's their own damn fault.  Not the Government's problem.  Not my problem. Not your problem.  THEIR FUCKING PROBLEM. 

[AWK]

Furthermore.  Saving my personal " lifetime story", I've been on my own since I was 17.  I've had a full time job since 2 weeks after I graduated high school.  I'm 31 now, and not once between then and now have I spent a day without health/dental insurance.  Not once. 

If people don't have health insurance, it's their own damn fault.  Not the Government's problem.  Not my problem. Not your problem.  THEIR FUCKING PROBLEM.

Would you say that to a child without insurance and shitty parents?

[Token]

Would you say that to a child without insurance and shitty parents?

I have no problem, at all, taking care of children.  We already do that, and this shitty bill did nothing to correct that problem.  From birth until they finish high school.  But if (either) mom or dad aren't willing to work a job that has an insurance plan, it's not my problem.  Nor is it Uncle Sam's. 

[RWS]

The reason they're forcing all healthy people to have insurance is because it will offset the cost of accepting people with preexisting conditions. Healthy people who don't think they need insurance having insurance will, in theory, balance out the cost of covering chemo, etc. for Joe Cancerpatient.

And actually, before this, if a poor uninsured person needs medical attention, who do you think pays for that? The taxpayers. They don't just let people bleed out and die in the hospital parking lot because they don't have insurance. So I don't see how forcing people to buy into coverage would require us (the already insured) to pay more money in taxes.

Let's get this right.

1. They're forcing everybody without insurance to have it. Just because they don't have insurance doesn't mean they are healthy. Supposedly the number of uninsured ranges somewhere from 20-30 million? So, you're going to add that many people that theoretically you will need to provide health care for. But you're telling me that this system is designed on the wager that the majority of those people are healthy, and won't need to use the system? All the while providing insurance at low cost so everybody can afford it? That's a scary wager. I understand that private health care is somewhat based on the same wager, but the difference is that you're going to pay more. But that is why those private insurance companies are still around.

And, as Token pointed out, those who can't afford insurance now probably won't be able to afford Obamacare either. And as I keep pointing out, everybody will help pay for this one way or another. If you really believe that the average citizen with insurance now will not be affected, you are going to be disappointed down the road.

2. If those "healthy" people aren't using the system, why should they be forced to pay for it?

3. If those that are currently uninsured are healthy and don't need health insurance, then why the fuck does this system even exist? What is the point?

I don't think anybody here will disagree that affordable healthcare for the masses is a great idea. I think where everybody gets hung up is it is obvious that this program will never operate without a deficit, and is going to further strain the budget. If you're going to fix it, then fix it the right way.

[RWS]

So if nothing is changing whatsoever, why the outrage? Why does at least trying to fix the problem make Obama a heretic?

While we are paying now to support some of the uninsured, we're going to have to pay even more when you add tens of millions of people to the system. I don't know how many times I need to say it, but the premium that those people are going to pay isn't going to fully fund the system. And not all of them will even be paying in. The money will have to come from somewhere. Even then, it will still run in the red.

[Token]

I have another question that may have been addressed.  What happens to the people who still refuse to purchase insurance?  Do they get a bill in the mail?  Or does the penalty come from the $10,000 tax refund check they didn't earn?

[Vandy Vol]

I have another question that may have been addressed.  What happens to the people who still refuse to purchase insurance?  Do they get a bill in the mail?  Or does the penalty come from the $10,000 tax refund check they didn't earn?

My understanding is that the I.R.S. will be in charge of enforcing this.  Not because the Court ruled it to be a tax.  I'm relatively certain they intended for the I.R.S. to enforce it all along.

Assuming that it is the I.R.S. that enforces this, they will have some sort of reporting requirement.  In all likelihood, companies which provide health insurance will be required to submit a form for each customer verifying that they are covered by insurance.

If someone over the age of 18 files a return, and the I.R.S. system notices that no health insurance report was filed on their social security number, then they will mail an inquiry.  If no response is received, then they will send an assessment of the amount owed.  If no response is received, then they will send it to collections, who will levy your bank account and garnish your wages.

While in collections, they'll keep any federal refunds you are due and apply it to the balance you owe.  They'll also file to intercept your state refund.

I assume businesses who fail to properly report an individual who does have insurance through them will be fined with a civil penalty.  Those businesses who currently fail to properly report and/or file employment withholding often get hit with civil penalties.  The same collection technique is used:  send notices, wait for response, move to collections, take money.

They are a pretty cost efficient agency.

[RWS]

My understanding is that the I.R.S. will be in charge of enforcing this.  Not because the Court ruled it to be a tax.  I'm relatively certain they intended for the I.R.S. to enforce it all along.

Assuming that it is the I.R.S. that enforces this, they will have some sort of reporting requirement.  In all likelihood, companies which provide health insurance will be required to submit a form for each customer verifying that they are covered by insurance.

If someone over the age of 18 files a return, and the I.R.S. system notices that no health insurance report was filed on their social security number, then they will mail an inquiry.  If no response is received, then they will send an assessment of the amount owed.  If no response is received, then they will send it to collections, who will levy your bank account and garnish your wages.

While in collections, they'll keep any federal refunds you are due and apply it to the balance you owe.  They'll also file to intercept your state refund.

I assume businesses who fail to properly report an individual who does have insurance through them will be fined with a civil penalty.  Those businesses who currently fail to properly report and/or file employment withholding often get hit with civil penalties.  The same collection technique is used:  send notices, wait for response, move to collections, take money.

They are a pretty cost efficient agency.

So, somebody with alot of tax credits could just not pay, and they will take it out of their tax refund as Token suggests? If somebody is getting a refund for what they paid in plus some, and the government is simply taking back some of that plus some, that's not real income being put into the health care system. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Really, it's robbing both. Or am I completely off base here?

[Vandy Vol]

So, somebody with alot of tax credits could just not pay, and they will take it out of their tax refund as Token suggests? If somebody is getting a refund for what they paid in plus some, and the government is simply taking back some of that plus some, that's not real income being put into the health care system. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Really, it's robbing both. Or am I completely off base here?

If you owe a tax debt to the I.R.S., then they will keep any federal refund you are owed and apply it to that debt.  I imagine they would do the same thing with the amount owed for failure to have health insurance.

Any refund is not property of the government's.  If the government gets to keep a refund that they normally wouldn't have gotten in order to satisfy a debt, then money is being made.

Not saying that it will be enough to float the system, but just pointing out that a levied refund is the same thing as income to the government, because the refund wasn't supposed to be theirs to keep initially.

[bottomfeeder]

[ssgaufan]

So what is going to happen with someone like myself?  I have healthcare/dental insurance on my entire family through the Military.  My wife has declined to get insurance through her employer because I already have her covered.  Will they try to charge my wife?

[dallaswareagle]

So what is going to happen with someone like myself?  I have healthcare/dental insurance on my entire family through the Military.  My wife has declined to get insurance through her employer because I already have her covered.  Will they try to charge my wife?

From my understanding (I am retired military and have Tri-care) this should not affect you or your wife as she has coverage. But they are trying to up the fees charged to retired folks and up the deductable that you must now meet. Somewhere, somehow your gonna pay more and if the current administration gets re-elected look to get shafted as democrats on a second term tend to gut the military.   

[RWS]

Somewhere, somehow your gonna pay more

That is the reality. They can say "It won't affect the average person with existing insurance" all that they want, but we all know that the cost will be passed on somewhere. The government is going to make things alot more expensive for the private insurers, and the insurers will pass that cost on to the consumer. The whole thing is nuts. Now that the government is in the insurance business, how is it right that they can and will tax private companies that are basically considered the competition? You're basically penalizing a company for doing well. I thought the whole point of the economy was for businesses to prosper?

[dallaswareagle]

That is the reality. They can say "It won't affect the average person with existing insurance" all that they want, but we all know that the cost will be passed on somewhere. The government is going to make things alot more expensive for the private insurers, and the insurers will pass that cost on to the consumer. The whole thing is nuts. Now that the government is in the insurance business, how is it right that they can and will tax private companies that are basically considered the competition? You're basically penalizing a company for doing well. I thought the whole point of the economy was for businesses Government to prosper?

Got remember whose running things now.

[AUChizad]

Question: What did you like about Romneycare that is different from Obamacare? Besides it being a state vs. federal government program.

[Aubie16]

Question: What did you like about Romneycare that is different from Obamacare? Besides it being a state vs. federal government program.

Romney care isn't any better.

Elect Gary Johnson

[AUChizad]

Romney care isn't any better.

Elect Gary Johnson

This man knows.

[djsimp]

Quick question. Why has not one person spoke about all the little "hidden" bills and laws buried in this Obamacare shit not been spoke of? You know, the ones that have nothing to do with healthcare. I believe the Tea Party have been preaching on this for the last year.

[bottomfeeder]

I stole this:

Just left McDonalds got the new Obama happy meal! Order anything you want and the guy behind you has to pay for it!