When did it become OK for Americans not to work?

[Kaos]

What Ramsey says is stuff you and I already know but many do not know this information as simple as it may sound. I think it's good to have a mainstream guy like him out there for people to hear. People don't have to be in debt and he reminds them of that. Many go down the wrong path (for various reasons) and are very ignorant to the right way to be. Like I said, I don't agree with all of his advice and micro principles but getting the general idea out there of living debt free and happy is a very good thing for the general public. Spending money we don't have is shoved down out throats in marketing (Credit Cards, Automobiles with bells and whistles, entertainment items). It's good to have someone out there warning the public not to fall for all the glitter.

Disagree.  That's not how I saw Ramsey at all.  His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"

Fuck that. 

Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path?  No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way?  Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by?  No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it?  Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for?  No.

People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big. 

His advice is ridiculously extreme.  He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever. 

Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA. 

Fuck Dave Ramsey. 

[Token]

Nope.  But you didn't need Dave Dumbass Ramsey to figure out that you needed to find a balance between what you owe each month and what you bring in.  You're smart enough to do that on your
own.  His financial advice was -- at least in my opinion -- the biggest bunch of pablum ever.  I listened to his schtick for a while.  He had no real insight.  Sometimes what he said was probably helpful.  Sometimes his advice was downright idiotic and dangerous.  Telling people their credit score is irrelevant?  Insisting that the only path to independence is a complete lack of debt? 

He's wrong. 

That idiotic fuck is a sore point with me.  I'm sure he helped some people but he can still suck a dick. 

My extreme dislike for Ramsey has nothing to do with success or the definition thereof, however.  Success is a state of mind.

Well, that I agree with.  And I can't see why anyone would ever pay the guy for his advice.  Especially the envelope thing he talked about for 4 hours.  But he did have a few sticking points that made sense.  Of course, had it been mandatory for me to listen to someone else instead of Ramsey it probably would have been the same concept. 

[Token]

Disagree.  That's not how I saw Ramsey at all.  His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"

Fuck that. 

Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path?  No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way?  Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by?  No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it?  Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for?  No.

People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big. 

His advice is ridiculously extreme.  He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever. 

Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA. 

Fuck Dave Ramsey.

You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard.  Never once said not to go to college or start a business.  Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference? 

[GH2001]

Disagree.  That's not how I saw Ramsey at all.  His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"

Fuck that. 

Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path?  No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way?  Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by?  No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it?  Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for?  No.

People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big. 

His advice is ridiculously extreme.  He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever. 

Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA. 

Fuck Dave Ramsey.

His main audience are those that are in extreme debt. I think his way to be is much better than the condition of most of the people that need help. The media and the gov't (along with marketing depts) have brainwashed society into thinking debt spending is the norm. Sometimes it takes a guy like this (as self righteous and disingenuous as he may sound sometimes) to snap people out of a lifestyle that is taking them down a highway to hell.

BTW - the plan and baby steps are to get them at even footing (out from underneath the debt). Then they can feel free to think big. You can't exactly think big if you are sitting in 500,000 in debt. First things first, crawl before you walk, etc.

[Kaos]

You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard.  Never once said not to go to college or start a business.  Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference?

It's a personal issue with me.  Family member second guessing everything I did, bought, decided and using "Well, Dave Ramsey says..." as the opening. 

So I listened to his show for about a month just to see.  I was absolutely appalled at most of the advice he dispensed. 

"Dave, I owe $150,000 on my home and $25,000 on my car and my husband left me.  I've got two kids. I'm working part time and I'd like to go back to nursing school but I'd have to take out a loan to do it.  What do you think I should do?"

Sell the car, sell the house. Save up until you can buy a car for $1000.  Don't take out a school loan, you don't want to start out your life in debt! Get a full time job on top of the part time job and eat beans.  Call me back when you're debt free and I'll play a horn and go yippee!!

He said ignorant shit like that over and over and over and over.  And over.

Buy a $1000 car?  How stupid.  She'd pay more in repairs a year than she would paying off the one she has.  Don't get a student loan?  Right.  She qualifies for a great full time Waffle House job where she'll make $9 an hour.  Or she can get her nursing degree, get a job that pays $40 or $50k.  Definitely don't want that, Waffle House needs waitresses so Dave can get his hash browns. 

I'll leave it alone now because it is sort of a personal thing with me. 

[Townhallsavoy]

You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard.  Never once said not to go to college or start a business.  Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference?

If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it.  It's why I don't like Ramsey either.

I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt.  I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them.  I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid.  That's absolutely ridiculous. 

[GH2001]

If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it.  It's why I don't like Ramsey either.

I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt.  I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them.  I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid.  That's absolutely ridiculous.

Again, were applying standards here for you, I and Kaos. Most of the people that need his help are in serious serious debt and need extreme changes. For you and I to enjoy life and be limited in our debt, that stuff is not necessary. We are ahead of the 8 ball.

[Townhallsavoy]

It's a personal issue with me.  Family member second guessing everything I did, bought, decided and using "Well, Dave Ramsey says..." as the opening. 

So I listened to his show for about a month just to see.  I was absolutely appalled at most of the advice he dispensed. 

"Dave, I owe $150,000 on my home and $25,000 on my car and my husband left me.  I've got two kids. I'm working part time and I'd like to go back to nursing school but I'd have to take out a loan to do it.  What do you think I should do?"

Sell the car, sell the house. Save up until you can buy a car for $1000.  Don't take out a school loan, you don't want to start out your life in debt! Get a full time job on top of the part time job and eat beans.  Call me back when you're debt free and I'll play a horn and go yippee!!

He said ignorant shit like that over and over and over and over.  And over.

Buy a $1000 car?  How stupid.  She'd pay more in repairs a year than she would paying off the one she has.  Don't get a student loan?  Right.  She qualifies for a great full time Waffle House job where she'll make $9 an hour.  Or she can get her nursing degree, get a job that pays $40 or $50k.  Definitely don't want that, Waffle House needs waitresses so Dave can get his hash browns. 

I'll leave it alone now because it is sort of a personal thing with me.

You're exactly right. 

We almost went the Ramsey route. My wife and I are both teachers, so we thought Ramsey's "save save save no debt no debt no debt!" policy would be good for us.  But the more we thought about it, the more we realized it wasn't the best choice.

We bought a house despite not having a 20% down payment.  My wife went to graduate school and got her master's degree despite having to take out a $12k loan.  We bought two used - but under 40K miles - cars and took on two hefty car payments.  One was a Honda Accord.  The other a Nissan Altima. 

It was tough at first, but by next year, we'll have paid off one of the cars and in two years, the other car along with the student loan.  My wife's pay increase has really helped.  Owning a house has helped with taxes.

Considering that both of these cars are known to be reliable for a long, long time, we fully expect to be in a very good place within the next five-seven years.  We'll hit the 20% mark on our house payments and drop $200/month.  We can sell the cars if we want or drive them until they die which could be ten years from now. 

And we wouldn't have this plan if we didn't make the scary investments.  If we had listened to Ramsey?  We'd still be in that cheap apartment complex with two crappy cars and wishing that we could improve our lives in some way. 

Ramsey says to be patient to the bone, but I think being smart is much more important and much more enjoyable. 

[GH2001]

You're exactly right. 

We almost went the Ramsey route. My wife and I are both teachers, so we thought Ramsey's "save save save no debt no debt no debt!" policy would be good for us.  But the more we thought about it, the more we realized it wasn't the best choice.

We bought a house despite not having a 20% down payment.  My wife went to graduate school and got her master's degree despite having to take out a $12k loan.  We bought two used - but under 40K miles - cars and took on two hefty car payments.  One was a Honda Accord.  The other a Nissan Altima. 

It was tough at first, but by next year, we'll have paid off one of the cars and in two years, the other car along with the student loan.  My wife's pay increase has really helped.  Owning a house has helped with taxes.

Considering that both of these cars are known to be reliable for a long, long time, we fully expect to be in a very good place within the next five-seven years.  We'll hit the 20% mark on our house payments and drop $200/month.  We can sell the cars if we want or drive them until they die which could be ten years from now. 

And we wouldn't have this plan if we didn't make the scary investments.  If we had listened to Ramsey?  We'd still be in that cheap apartment complex with two crappy cars and wishing that we could improve our lives in some way. 

Ramsey says to be patient to the bone, but I think being smart is much more important and much more enjoyable.

What you just told me there is that you are not one of the people that needs to hear what he says. You already knew common sense.

[Token]

If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it.  It's why I don't like Ramsey either.

I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt.  I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them.  I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid.  That's absolutely ridiculous.

I'm starting to think I heard a completely different side of Ramsey.  I didn't hear that I should eat canned foods, eat cheap cereal, or pinch every penney I have.  Otherwise I would have taken a nap during his time.  And he never said not to have nice things.  He just showed how much smarter it was to buy it with cash. 

[Townhallsavoy]

I'm starting to think I heard a completely different side of Ramsey.  I didn't hear that I should eat canned foods, eat cheap cereal, or pinch every penney I have.  Otherwise I would have taken a nap during his time.  And he never said not to have nice things.  He just showed how much smarter it was to buy it with cash.

I skimmed one of his books and listened to his radio show a few times.  He was always adamant about living frugal to the fullest degree.

[Shug Dye]

Back on topic.....I would love to get paid and not work.... lotto. inheritance, rich husband, whatev ....but I would never do it on the government dime. The notion of that offends me. I'm all for people getting a helping hand if they got laid off, or have real disabilities that keep them from working...but any able bodied person, not just men, should be able to support themselves and any family they choose to have. What the fuck is wrong with people?


Besides, sometimes you get a job that allows you to check out youporn at least part of the day.

[GH2001]

Back on topic.....I would love to get paid and not work.... lotto. inheritance, rich husband, whatev ....but I would never do it on the government dime. The notion of that offends me. I'm all for people getting a helping hand if they got laid off, or have real disabilities that keep them from working...but any able bodied person, not just men, should be able to support themselves and any family they choose to have. What the fuck is wrong with people?


Besides, sometimes you get a job that allows you to check out youporn at least part of the day.

Sometimes eh? Who has that job?

[dallaswareagle]

Sometimes eh? Who has that job?

[AUTiger1]

Another hijack, Ramsey sucks.  Yes, the general theme of living within your means and "trying" to keep yourself debt free is awesome, but sometimes you can't do that.  Like K said, working a shitty job making $8/hr, have a car payment, some CC debt?  Whatever you do, don't take out that college loan and go to school at night to better yourself.  <---dumb advice.

The worst one I heard on his show was to this young man calling in.  Said he was tired of paying apartment rent at $600/month when he found a house that would have the same payment that he could fix up as he went along.  Had a car payment, and $3,000 in credit car debt and was worried about his credit card debt keeping him from getting the best interest rates possible.  This was his advice to the guy.  Call the credit card company and tell them that you can't pay the $3,000 but could pay $1,500, then pay off the car as fast as possible or sell it and get one that you can pay cash for (and your $1,000 emergency fund), then go buy the house.   Anyone else see the flaw in that other than myself?  Forget that he might could have worked something out with the mortgage company to roll his CC debt in with the loan.  Do people really take that advice?  Yeah, call the CC company, work something out with them by not paying the full amount of your debt, let it go on your credit score and ruin it, then try and buy a house.