Trayvon

[Snaggletiger]

The truly disturbing thing to me is the U.S. Attorney General vowing to get involved...."If the evidence warranted it".  Now, we already know the evidence warrants it.  The Right Reverend Jessie and Mr. Shahptun said so. 

What the AG should have said is calm the fuck down and let the local authorities do their jobs.  If it's really murder or manslaughter, they'll arrest and prosecute "if the evidence warrants it".  If one damn thing is done simply because of pressure being applied from racist protesters...that would be the real tragedy. 

[JR4AU]

Although I know the "system" isn't 100%, I just can't bring myself to believe they would charge him without enough evidence to convict.  I think it has to be forensics.  If they are going to charge based off the same evidence, when the regular DA wouldn't, it's going to turn into a shit storm if they lose.  And, as I said, Zimmerman will sue the fuck out of the state of Florida.

I would tend to agree.  Based on the evidence that's been made public, I couldn't see a conviction being had, at least not in a county with those demographics.

[CCTAU]

The truly disturbing thing to me is the U.S. Attorney General vowing to get involved...."If the evidence warranted it".  Now, we already know the evidence warrants it.  The Right Reverend Jessie and Mr. Shahptun said so. 

What the AG should have said is calm the fuck down and let the local authorities do their jobs.  If it's really murder or manslaughter, they'll arrest and prosecute "if the evidence warrants it".  If one damn thing is done simply because of pressure being applied from racist protesters...that would be the real tragedy.

Looks like Holder made that call:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-charged-trayvon-martin-death-reports-193845232.html

[Townhallsavoy]

The truly disturbing thing to me is the U.S. Attorney General vowing to get involved...."If the evidence warranted it".  Now, we already know the evidence warrants it.  The Right Reverend Jessie and Mr. Shahptun said so. 

What the AG should have said is calm the fuck down and let the local authorities do their jobs.  If it's really murder or manslaughter, they'll arrest and prosecute "if the evidence warrants it".  If one damn thing is done simply because of pressure being applied from racist protesters...that would be the real tragedy.

Holder also praised Sharpton for his efforts in the Trayvon story. 

[CCTAU]

So there is a poll on the front page of Yahoo. It is the perfect example of how polls are set up to skew the results.

The poll asks:
Is the George Zimmerman charge just?
A. Yes, 2nd-degree murder is right.
B. No, It's too harsh.
C. No, It's too lenient.


Seems fine on the surface. But where is "D. No. This is all bullshit" option?
So it really doesn't matter how you answer this poll. IF you answer at all, you have already agreed that he should be charged.

[Kaos]

I'm organizing a rally. 

We are going to march around the neighborhood wearing cheap bowling shirts, wearing sunglasses and brandishing handguns while we chant "Free Zimmerman, esse"

Who's in?

[AUChizad]

So there is a poll on the front page of Yahoo. It is the perfect example of how polls are set up to skew the results.

The poll asks:
Is the George Zimmerman charge just?
A. Yes, 2nd-degree murder is right.
B. No, It's too harsh.
C. No, It's too lenient.


Seems fine on the surface. But where is "D. No. This is all bullshit" option?
So it really doesn't matter how you answer this poll. IF you answer at all, you have already agreed that he should be charged.

So you think it's all just made up? No murder occurred? Trayvon's just sitting at his house laughing at this whole thing?

Most sane people can at least recognize that shit went down and it's not "all bullshit." The debate is whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon to death via legitimate self-defense, or if he was the provoker that brought the conflict on himself. If you believe the former, then you believe the punishment "is too harsh". If you believe the latter, then you believe "Yes, 2nd degree murder is right." If you buy into Al Sharpton's bullshit, you believe "it's too lenient".

There is no debate over it being "all bullshit". Someone was killed.

It's funny how some of you have shifted your key positions, and yet maintain this facade of objectivity. So before, the law of the land was infallible. If he hadn't been charged, then obviously he was innocent. If they had evidence proving his guilt, then charges would have already been filed.

Now that they have? Oh, the corruption! This whole thing's a sham, and they're just playing to special interests.

[GH2001]

So you think it's all just made up? No murder occurred? Trayvon's just sitting at his house laughing at this whole thing?

Most sane people can at least recognize that shit went down and it's not "all bullshit." The debate is whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon to death via legitimate self-defense, or if he was the provoker that brought the conflict on himself. If you believe the former, then you believe the punishment "is too harsh". If you believe the latter, then you believe "Yes, 2nd degree murder is right." If you buy into Al Sharpton's bullshit, you believe "it's too lenient".

There is no debate over it being "all bullshit". Someone was killed.

It's funny how some of you have shifted your key positions, and yet maintain this facade of objectivity. So before, the law of the land was infallible. If he hadn't been charged, then obviously he was innocent. If they had evidence proving his guilt, then charges would have already been filed.

Now that they have? Oh, the corruption! This whole thing's a sham, and they're just playing to special interests.

I know this.

This special Prosecutor is swinging for the fences here at a nasty Justin Verlander fastball. Its a risk for her but she seems to be fine taking it. We shall see what happens.

[Snaggletiger]

I think the argument is that there are people who truly believe Zimmerman was justified and no charges should have been filed at all based on "Stand Your Ground".  The pole doesn't address that option.  It's merely, he's guilty..to what degree. 

[Kaos]

So you think it's all just made up? No murder occurred? Trayvon's just sitting at his house laughing at this whole thing?

Most sane people can at least recognize that shit went down and it's not "all bullshit." The debate is whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon to death via legitimate self-defense, or if he was the provoker that brought the conflict on himself. If you believe the former, then you believe the punishment "is too harsh". If you believe the latter, then you believe "Yes, 2nd degree murder is right." If you buy into Al Sharpton's bullshit, you believe "it's too lenient".

There is no debate over it being "all bullshit". Someone was killed.

It's funny how some of you have shifted your key positions, and yet maintain this facade of objectivity. So before, the law of the land was infallible. If he hadn't been charged, then obviously he was innocent. If they had evidence proving his guilt, then charges would have already been filed.

Now that they have? Oh, the corruption! This whole thing's a sham, and they're just playing to special interests.

There was no murder. 

Someone died, yes.  But there was no murder. 

There is, however, a witch hunt.  Which is worse than a murder because it is an intentional injustice perpetrated by self-serving fuckernotches. 

But murder?  Wasn't one.  Didn't happen.

[CCTAU]

I think the argument is that there are people who truly believe Zimmerman was justified and no charges should have been filed at all based on "Stand Your Ground".  The pole doesn't address that option.  It's merely, he's guilty..to what degree.

It's hard to get that through to the beta male crowd. They have been trained that if you "feel" it, it must be right.

The bullshit option should have been given. It is as valid as any of the other options. It's all opinion, but at least give the option for ALL opinions. Not just the one you want to see. Libtard poll. No wonder jizzadd got upset.

[GH2001]

There was no murder. 

Someone died, yes.  But there was no murder. 

There is, however, a witch hunt.  Which is worse than a murder because it is an intentional injustice perpetrated by self-serving fuckernotches. 

But murder?  Wasn't one.  Didn't happen.

I agree with you 100% on this.

Just for the record, murder doesn't have to have intent to kill. Thats only first degree which is premeditated/lying in wait. JR can correct me if I am wrong but 2nd degree just requires it be a murder (not planned), such as reactionary or spontaneous (in Zimmerman's case), no intent to actually kill even though that may have been the end result.

[Snaggletiger]

I agree with you 100% on this.

Just for the record, murder doesn't have to have intent to kill. Thats only first degree which is premeditated/lying in wait. JR can correct me if I am wrong but 2nd degree just requires it be a murder (not planned), such as reactionary or spontaneous (in Zimmerman's case), no intent to actually kill even though that may have been the end result.

Has nothing to do with this case but there is also Felony Murder wherein, if someone is killed during the commitment of some other felony, you can be charged with murder.  Guy robs a bank and his gun goes off accidently and kills someone. 

[djsimp]

Commence opening the Pandora's box. This will come back to haunt the justice system in my opinion. People will see riots and rallies of forcing the hand of the justice system and further build upon the medias already large ego.

[AUChizad]

I agree with you 100% on this.

Just for the record, murder doesn't have to have intent to kill. Thats only first degree which is premeditated/lying in wait. JR can correct me if I am wrong but 2nd degree just requires it be a murder (not planned), such as reactionary or spontaneous (in Zimmerman's case), no intent to actually kill even though that may have been the end result.

Exactly.

Given the facts of the case, it takes more blind assumption, or you "feeling it", as CCTAU says to believe this is anything but murder in the 2nd degree. The civil rights activists and most of the media, clamoring for 1st degree murder, are doing so based on assumptions. People that want to believe Zimmerman is a civic hero 100% in the right are doing exactly the same thing.

Once again, I'm painted as the extreme for taking the middle ground, without a hint of irony.

[GH2001]

Exactly.

Given the facts of the case, it takes more blind assumption, or you "feeling it", as CCTAU says to believe this is anything but murder in the 2nd degree. The civil rights activists and most of the media, clamoring for 1st degree murder, are doing so based on assumptions. People that want to believe Zimmerman is a civic hero 100% in the right are doing exactly the same thing.

My gut feeling? IF this gets any traction beyond a GJ, he will somehow get a vol. manslaughter charge/plea, a sort of a meet in the middle kind of deal to keep a race war from breaking out. Its sad this thing has become totally political. The Black Panthers are calling for the extermination of "whitey" (even though Zimmerman is latino) and calling for "cracker blood" in the streets. Unreal. Most of the people on that side do NOT want justice; they simply want to further their cause using this case as a method.

[CCTAU]

Once again, I'm painted as the extreme for taking the middle ground, without a hint of irony.

Bullshit. You have been clamoring for justice for poor little Trayvon since this started.

All the rest of us have been saying is that Trayvon ONLY had the fatal bullet wound (according to reports released) and that Zimmerman had evidence of being attacked. Yet poor little innocent 13 year old Trayvon was shot by the big bad white (hispanic) man just cause he had a sweet tea and some skittles.

If the evidence is so damn flimsy you have to skip a GJ just to get it to court, why go to court?

Because it FEELS like the right thing to do for Trayvon's sweet parents!

[dallaswareagle]

I'm organizing a rally. 

We are going to march around the neighborhood wearing cheap bowling shirts, wearing sunglasses and brandishing handguns while we chant "Free Zimmerman, esse"

Who's in?

Can't-Cause most folks like us work to make a better life for ourselves. We don’t have time to tear up our neighborhoods and simply support somebody based on the color of their skin without getting all the facts. Some people do.

Eventually this country and people will get tired of the double standards and figure out a way to just be with each other.

[AUChizad]

Bullshit. You have been clamoring for justice for poor little Trayvon since this started.

All the rest of us have been saying is that Trayvon ONLY had the fatal bullet wound (according to reports released) and that Zimmerman had evidence of being attacked. Yet poor little innocent 13 year old Trayvon was shot by the big bad white (hispanic) man just cause he had a sweet tea and some skittles.

If the evidence is so damn flimsy you have to skip a GJ just to get it to court, why go to court?

Because it FEELS like the right thing to do for Trayvon's sweet parents!

What are you talking about?

Since the first page of this thread, I've maintained that:
-Zimmerman was following Trayvon suspeciously
-Trayvon took notice, and after unsuccessfully attempting to flee, he attacked Zimmerman
-Caught up in the scuffle, Zimmerman shot Trayvon, killing him.

That's 2nd degree murder.

I'm not saying he went out looking for a black kid to shoot that day. But I'm not saying he is a hero to all either.

Again, it's that middle ground grey area that some here are incapable of seeing.

[GarMan]

What are you talking about?

Since the first page of this thread, I've maintained that:
-Zimmerman was following Trayvon suspeciously
-Trayvon took notice, and after unsuccessfully attempting to flee, he attacked Zimmerman
-Caught up in the scuffle, Zimmerman shot Trayvon, killing him.

That's 2nd degree murder.

I'm not saying he went out looking for a black kid to shoot that day. But I'm not saying he is a hero to all either.

Again, it's that middle ground grey area that some here are incapable of seeing.

Sorry SweetPee...  That's not 2nd degree murder.  How do you make that stretch?  And, if those are the facts according to you, Trayvon would be the confirmed aggressor, and Zimmerman would be legally justified acting in self defense.