Trayvon

[GarMan]

Goddammit, you assholes are forcing me to take a position on this I wouldn't normally with your ridiculous double standards.

What double standards?  Are you kidding me??? 

GarMan, do you think these statements apply to this case? Why or why not? (Hint: I probably will agree). Then remind me again, why it does apply to Martin/Zimmerman.

These statements apply no more and no less to this case.  In this case, we have two thugs looking for trouble, eventually attacking and car-jacking a victim.  Trayvon was walking in the rain acting suspicious, according to Zimmerman, within a gated community, and if you take Zimmerman at his word during the 911 call, Trayvon approached him in his vehicle with his hand in his waistband, which usually suggests that he's packing a firearm or other weapon.  Just stating the obvious for you...  And, race has nothing to do with this case either. 

Does race still have nothing to do with it?  Or it does, but only when it's black guys attacking white guys?

Or, only when it's white guys attacking black guys, of course? 

And you guys will be waiting for all of the evidence to come out before passing judgement on these kids, right?

I mean, , right?

Right...

Have we been able to confirm what the victim was wearing? Let's dig up whatever we can find about this guy to see if he deserved what he got. I heard he skipped class once in 1978. If true, he obviously deserved what was coming to him, right?

Nobody said that Trayvon deserved it because he'd been fucking off over the past year.  Trayvon didn't deserve anything, but when he chose to act like a thug with a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, he found the trouble that his apparent behavior instigated. 

[AUChizad]

These statements apply no more and no less to this case.  In this case, we have two thugs looking for trouble, eventually attacking and car-jacking a victim.  Trayvon was walking in the rain acting suspicious, according to Zimmerman, within a gated community, and if you take Zimmerman at his word during the 911 call, Trayvon approached him in his vehicle with his hand in his waistband, which usually suggests that he's packing a firearm or other weapon.  Just stating the obvious for you...  And, race has nothing to do with this case either. 

LMFAO.

So you're saying these two situations are exactly the same...in that the black guys were looking for trouble and found it.

[JR4AU]

Just finished reading that.  The article did paint it more in the light that she's still investigating and just didn't see the need for a GJ.  If an arrest is warranted, she'll still call for it.  But don't let that stop them from claiming this just shows more bias and racism.

I'd like to know more about this special prosecutor.  This could work either way.  They may feel a Seminole County GJ wouldn't indict, and are looking for PC to issue a warrant.

I don't know FL law.  Here, even if I approved a warrant, the case would still have to be presented to a GJ.   Apparently that's not the case in FL from what I'm reading.

[JR4AU]

LMFAO.

So you're saying these two situations are exactly the same...in that the black guys were looking for trouble and found it.

In the car jacking, the black guys were intentionally committing a crime. 

Zimmerman was doing his "job" as a neighborhood watch captain. 

The cases are not remotely comparable factually.  The fact that the media won't let one story die because it's "white on black", and will hardly mention the other because it's "black on white", that's the difference. 

[GarMan]

LMFAO.

So you're saying these two situations are exactly the same...in that the black guys were looking for trouble and found it.

Not quite...  But, you do have two incidents where people behaved poorly.  In the heat of the situation, better sense would be to assume that Trayvon was armed and up to no good.  Rain...  Acting like he's on drugs or sumpin'...  Hand in his waistband...  Laugh all you want.  Put yourself in that same exact situation, and I'll bet you'd behave more like Zimmerman and less like Trayvon.  That's why I find your reaction to this incident so ridiculous. 

[Snaggletiger]

The Martin/Zimmerman incident appears to be a situation that just plain got out of hand.  Even though Zimmerman was packing, I doubt he had any idea and especially any hope that things would turn out like they did.  At best, he probably wanted to show his huge kahones and have the kid cower and run in the face of the almighty Keeper of the Cul De Sac. 

In the case of the white dude getting jumped....when one guy has a hammer and the other is holding the victim....you knew exactly what you intended to do before it happened.   

[JR4AU]

In the case of the white dude getting jumped....when one guy has a hammer and the other is holding the victim....you knew exactly what you intended to do before it happened.

They could have been covert NCAA operatives and mistaken the old white guy for Uncle Miltie. 

[Token]

I'd like to know more about this special prosecutor.  This could work either way.  They may feel a Seminole County GJ wouldn't indict, and are looking for PC to issue a warrant.

I don't know FL law.  Here, even if I approved a warrant, the case would still have to be presented to a GJ.   Apparently that's not the case in FL from what I'm reading.

The more I read this, the more this looks like the case.  It was originally set for GJ, which it should be.  But like you said, it's starting to seem like they believe the GJ won't indict and want to press the issue anyway.  Likely because of the media pressure. 

Still, if she charges Zimmerman, it will be her ass if she doesn't get a conviction.  It would be interesting to follow if she charges.  It might be the only case that I'm familiar with where law enforcement will be a better witness for the defendant than the state.  Especially since that agency has been roasted for their decision to rule it self defense. 

[CCTAU]

The more I read this, the more this looks like the case.  It was originally set for GJ, which it should be.  But like you said, it's starting to seem like they believe the GJ won't indict and want to press the issue anyway.  Likely because of the media pressure. 

Still, if she charges Zimmerman, it will be her ass if she doesn't get a conviction.  It would be interesting to follow if she charges.  It might be the only case that I'm familiar with where law enforcement will be a better witness for the defendant than the state.  Especially since that agency has been roasted for their decision to rule it self defense.

And she won't get a conviction. This prosecution would not be motivated by truth and justice, but by political maneuvering. The only people that would be happy by this prosecution are the race-baiters who have no interest in the truth or justice.

[JR4AU]

And she won't get a conviction. This prosecution would not be motivated by truth and justice, but by political maneuvering. The only people that would be happy by this prosecution are the race-baiters who have no interest in the truth or justice.

There's really only one prong left to this investigation as I see it, and that is Forensics.   If they back up, or don't contradict Zimmerman's story, then I don't see ever charging him.  Other than that, I can't see what else they're "investigating".

[Token]

There's really only one prong left to this investigation as I see it, and that is Forensics.   If they back up, or don't contradict Zimmerman's story, then I don't see ever charging him.  Other than that, I can't see what else they're "investigating".

Depends on her intentions.  Does she believe the police agency did their job, or is she looking for "new" witnesses. 

[JR4AU]

Depends on her intentions.  Does she believe the police agency did their job, or is she looking for "new" witnesses.

I have wondered if she might be trying to "uncover" witnesses that had yet to come forward.  Would certainly be very suspect IMO, is someone with a meaningful, eye witness account came forward at this time.  I wouldn't put it past some folks to try manufacturing one though.   

[GH2001]

I have wondered if she might be trying to "uncover" witnesses that had yet to come forward.  Would certainly be very suspect IMO, is someone with a meaningful, eye witness account came forward at this time.  I wouldn't put it past some folks to try manufacturing one though.

That could never happen cough cough ~Tawana Brawley~ cough cough.

Read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations

Those first couple of paragraphs sound eerily familiar don't they? Sharpton, GJ, Perception in Media vs Reality, Fake Allegations, etc etc etc.

[Snaggletiger]

Turns out there was an eyewitness account and he captured in on his cellular device.

[JR4AU]

That could never happen cough cough ~Tawana Brawley~ cough cough.

Read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations

Those first couple of paragraphs sound eerily familiar don't they? Sharpton, GJ, Perception in Media vs Reality, Fake Allegations, etc etc etc.

Since we're on teh wiki's, I'll add this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Corey  Trayvon/Zimmerman special prosecutor.

She is the Elected State Atty for Florida's 4th circuit (Nassaau, Duval, and Clay Counties) made up predominantly white Republicans.  26 years a prosecutor, Educated in the state of FL, and a Republican.  As safe as one could feel in his situation, I think Zimmerman can rest easy if he's told the truth. 

[CCTAU]

I saw a young black male with a hoodie on in my neighborhood yesterday. He did not get shot.
I think everyone noticed he was walking a small dog. Nothing says thug like taking the snauser out to piss.

[Vandy Vol]

Put yourself in that same exact situation, and I'll bet you'd behave more like Zimmerman and less like Trayvon. 

I wouldn't.  If a guy approaches my vehicle with his hand in his waist band and I honestly believe (or reasonably assume) that he has a weapon of some sort?  I'm not going to follow him on foot.  I'd call the police and watch from my vehicle, maybe even follow the guy in my vehicle giving me a speedy exit if he brandishes a weapon, but I wouldn't follow him on foot.

Doesn't make what Zimmerman did wrong, but I still wouldn't follow a guy on foot if I thought he might be armed.

[Kaos]

I wouldn't.  If a guy approaches my vehicle with his hand in his waist band and I honestly believe (or reasonably assume) that he has a weapon of some sort?  I'm not going to follow him on foot.  I'd call the police and watch from my vehicle, maybe even follow the guy in my vehicle giving me a speedy exit if he brandishes a weapon, but I wouldn't follow him on foot.

Doesn't make what Zimmerman did wrong, but I still wouldn't follow a guy on foot if I thought he might be armed.

Have I taught you nothing? Must I do everything? 

[GarMan]

I wouldn't.  If a guy approaches my vehicle with his hand in his waist band and I honestly believe (or reasonably assume) that he has a weapon of some sort?  I'm not going to follow him on foot.  I'd call the police and watch from my vehicle, maybe even follow the guy in my vehicle giving me a speedy exit if he brandishes a weapon, but I wouldn't follow him on foot.

Doesn't make what Zimmerman did wrong, but I still wouldn't follow a guy on foot if I thought he might be armed.

Fair enough, but not everybody would agree with that.  At one point, Zimmerman could no longer follow him or watch from his vehicle, which is why I speculate that he left his vehicle in the first place.  With this being a crowded complex, having noticed someone who may be armed and behaving strangely, wouldn't a reasonable person be more proactive in a situation such as this?  I would, and I have in my own neighborhood on several occasions.  As a side...  Thankfully, one of my neighbors took appropriate action when someone tried to steal one of my PWCs.  If he only did as you are suggesting, it would have likely been further vandalized or stolen altogether.  We can't rely on law enforcement all of the time, and that pathetic mindset that suggests it's not your responsibility is completely false if not outright wrong. 

[Vandy Vol]

Fair enough, but not everybody would agree with that.  At one point, Zimmerman could no longer follow him or watch from his vehicle, which is why I speculate that he left his vehicle in the first place.  With this being a crowded complex, having noticed someone who may be armed and behaving strangely, wouldn't a reasonable person be more proactive in a situation such as this?  I would, and I have in my own neighborhood on several occasions.  As a side...  Thankfully, one of my neighbors took appropriate action when someone tried to steal one of my PWCs.  If he only did as you are suggesting, it would have likely been further vandalized or stolen altogether.  We can't rely on law enforcement all of the time, and that pathetic mindset that suggests it's not your responsibility is completely false if not outright wrong.

Well, my view is that it's really not my responsibility.  While it's nice for neighbors to look out for my property, I don't expect them to do so.  It's not their property, and not their responsibility.

Aside from that, I'm not putting my life on the line for my own property much less someone else's.  If a person looks suspicious, sure, I'll call the cops and watch the person.  If the person is walking away, sure, I might try to keep an eye on them and even follow them, so long as I am armed or otherwise do not feel in danger.  If I see that person try to steal something, or look as if they are about to steal or commit a B&E, sure, I would likely address them, especially if I am armed.

But once I see that the person notices me, starts approaching me, and reaches for his waist band?  I'm not going to continue playing Joe Friday just to protect someone else's property.  No one's property is worth putting my life in danger.

I'd prefer to not end up like these people:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-florida-deputy-idUSTRE8251TL20120306

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/police-search-for-robbers-who-killed-man.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-02-10/news/chi-at-least-2-shot-in-noble-square-neighborhood-20120209_1_foil-car-theft-restaurant-shot

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/07/man-who-tried-to-prevent-pumpkin-theft-dies