Holy crap...

Vandy Vol · « **Reply #40 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:53:10 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on March 21, 2012, 09:45:56 PM

I know this will be lost on you, but every single post of yours in this thread sounds exactly like the Finebaum Show, circa February 1, 2002. Exactly.

"They hammerin' us for somethin' that goes on at EVER school, Pawwwl. This some damn BS. They pickin' on us Pawwwwl, 'cause we so damn good."

JR4AU · « **Reply #41 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:58:40 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on March 21, 2012, 09:45:56 PM

I know this will be lost on you, but every single post of yours in this thread sounds exactly like the Finebaum Show, circa February 1, 2002. Exactly.

"They hammerin' us for somethin' that goes on at EVER school, Pawwwl. This some damn BS. They pickin' on us Pawwwwl, 'cause we so damn good."

BOOM! Goes the dynamite.

Kaos · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:15:24 PM »

Quote from: JR4AU on March 21, 2012, 09:58:40 PM

BOOM! Goes the dynamite.

Wouldn't say dynamite. More like a firecracker.

JR4AU · « **Reply #43 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:30:13 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on March 21, 2012, 10:15:24 PM

Wouldn't say dynamite. More like a firecracker.

After I hit send, I thought "pop goes the weasel" would be better.

wreckingball · « **Reply #44 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:51:31 PM »

Quote from: AUChizad on March 21, 2012, 05:53:22 PM

Boo fuckin' hoo.

Get ready for two hand touch in the No Fun League in the near future.

Of those 15 points, the only thing I'll give you as problematic whatsoever is 8/9. Call me naive, but I believe the "cart-off" and "knock-out" shit is analogous to "The money was too much". Yes, there was probably more of a payout for huge hits than small tackles. The "cart-off" and "knock-out" shit, until I see the full context, seems to me to be rhetoric. If they said "rip his head off" would they be charged for attempted murder?

As for the rest of that, it has been said time and time again by at least a handful in every fucking organization in the NFL that that goes on at every single program.

I can tell you for a fact that years before this bountygate shit ever came to light, I was told about this same type of system (where players are made to pay into a pot for mistakes, and gets paid out for positive things) happens in minor league baseball locker rooms for Christ's sake. Not necessarily all on-the-field stuff, but a guy gets fined for stinking up the bathroom, and gets paid out for luring the big-tittied chick to the dugout asking for an autograph. And coaches were involved.

You are naive.

[embed=425,349]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LK379T5gQSA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/embed]

wesfau2 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2012, 09:44:15 AM »

I heard an interesting point, if it's true, made on the radio during my drive to work today:

There are multiple parties/entities suing the NFL for the lingering effects of head trauma/concussions. The thrust of the arguments is that the league did little to ensure the players' safety during their careers on the field. The punishment meted out to the Saints was more a statement on the league's attitude toward player safety, and the mitigating effect of said statement upon any pending damage claims, than a commentary on the Saints' activities.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2012, 09:52:09 AM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on March 22, 2012, 09:44:15 AM

I heard an interesting point, if it's true, made on the radio during my drive to work today:

There are multiple parties/entities suing the NFL for the lingering effects of head trauma/concussions. The thrust of the arguments is that the league did little to ensure the players' safety during their careers on the field. The punishment meted out to the Saints was more a statement on the league's attitude toward player safety, and the mitigating effect of said statement upon any pending damage claims, than a commentary on the Saints' activities.

This makes sense. As Chad alluded to, the NFL seems to be evolving into a league allowing less and less contact to help further player safety. In defending these suits, it can go a long way to be able to show the number of rules changes over the years and now the hard stance against intentional acts and trying to protect the players.

AUChizad · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:09:13 AM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on March 22, 2012, 09:44:15 AM

I heard an interesting point, if it's true, made on the radio during my drive to work today:

There are multiple parties/entities suing the NFL for the lingering effects of head trauma/concussions. The thrust of the arguments is that the league did little to ensure the players' safety during their careers on the field. The punishment meted out to the Saints was more a statement on the league's attitude toward player safety, and the mitigating effect of said statement upon any pending damage claims, than a commentary on the Saints' activities.

This is absolutely what's going on. Bobby Hebert's been trumpeting that since second one of the sanctions.

Every single time you hear Goodell speak on this issue he goes over and above to hammer in that he's all about protecting the players, and no punishment is too harsh for guys trying to injure other players, etc.

Yeah, Gregg Williams is kissing ass. His career is at the mercy of Goodell. The Saints got royally fucked. Of course their official statement is going to be along those lines.

Listening to the players themselves, though, it's exactly like the Cam thing. They're sincere. They insist they never had any kind of "bounty" meant to intentionally hurt any player, and that they are offended by the idea of them trying to ruin careers, and the bullshit detector doesn't go off one bit.

Quote

Saints cornerback Jabari Greer struck back at an NFL report Wednesday that included harsh punishments against Coach Sean Payton, general manager Mickey Loomis and others. The depiction of a rogue Saints defense seeking to injure opponents is false, Greer insisted.

"There's a picture that's being painted of us that we tried to injure our opponents and that we are not men of honor, not men with integrity, but instead men who are willing to do anything for a buck," Greer bristled. "That's not true. We are men of honor and we are men with integrity."

Greer conceded the Saints did have a pay for performance scheme from 2009 to 2011 that paid cash rewards for high impact plays like interceptions and fumble recoveries. Such a scheme runs afoul of the league's salary cap and collective bargaining agreement.

"We're not innocent in this situation," he acknowledged. "But we're not thugs, we're not mercenaries. OK, it was wrong. But to say we went out and tried to deliberately hurt our opponents and end their livelihood? That's not going to stand, I'm not going to stand for that."

Greer is not reacting to a straw man argument. In fact, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's statement and the league's long press release Wednesday level the precise accusation Greer pointedly denies.

"Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries," the statement reads. "Payments were also made for plays on which opposing players were injured."

Goodell said he was particularly disquieted by that finding.

"While I will not address player conduct at this time, I am profoundly troubled by the fact that players - including leaders among the defensive players - embraced this program so enthusiastically and participated with what appears to have been a deliberate lack of concern for the well-being of their fellow players," Goodell is quoted as saying. "While all club personnel are expected to play to win, they must not let that quest for victory so cloud their judgment that they willingly and willfully target their opponents and engage in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players."

Godfather · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:11:21 AM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on March 22, 2012, 09:44:15 AM

I heard an interesting point, if it's true, made on the radio during my drive to work today:

There are multiple parties/entities suing the NFL for the lingering effects of head trauma/concussions. The thrust of the arguments is that the league did little to ensure the players' safety during their careers on the field. The punishment meted out to the Saints was more a statement on the league's attitude toward player safety, and the mitigating effect of said statement upon any pending damage claims, than a commentary on the Saints' activities.

Doug Gottlieb...I like him!

Godfather · « **Reply #49 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:14:04 AM »

Chizad you also need to take the black and gold glasses off. I have no problems with the Saints and do think the punishment was a bit rough. However, I think the crux of the thing with Peyton wasn't the fact that they so much did it, but the cover up and lying afterwards.

War Eagle!!! · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:29:14 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on March 22, 2012, 10:14:04 AM

Chizad you also need to take the black and gold glasses off. I have no problems with the Saints and do think the punishment was a bit rough. However, I think the crux of the thing with Peyton wasn't the fact that they so much did it, but the cover up and lying afterwards.

This is how I feel. The penalty is definitely harsh, especially when you take into consideration that $7.5M is what Payton will be losing. However, could any of us say that if our CEO told us to change something we were doing in our career...for 3 fucking years...and we continually ignored it, that we would not LOSE our jobs? If you look at it like that, the punishment fits the crime...

wesfau2 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:30:59 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on March 22, 2012, 10:14:04 AM

Chizad you also need to take the black and gold glasses off. I have no problems with the Saints and do think the punishment was a bit rough. However, I think the crux of the thing with Peyton wasn't the fact that they so much did it, but the cover up and lying afterwards.

The lying definitely played a role, but...

Quote from: AUChizad on March 22, 2012, 10:09:13 AM

They're sincere. They insist they never had any kind of "bounty" meant to intentionally hurt any player, and that they are offended by the idea of them trying to ruin careers, and the bullshit detector doesn't go off one bit.

If you truly believe the above, then you're functionally retarded, Chad. There were bounties for "cart offs". That is a premium paid for a hit that injures a player so severely that he must be taken from the field of play by artificial means.

If you intend to hit someone and injure them to the point that they cannot walk off the field for recovery then you are taking shots at a guy's career.

AUChizad · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:38:22 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on March 22, 2012, 10:14:04 AM

Chizad you also need to take the black and gold glasses off. I have no problems with the Saints and do think the punishment was a bit rough. However, I think the crux of the thing with Peyton wasn't the fact that they so much did it, but the cover up and lying afterwards.

Look, they probably could have been more forthcoming. Goodell obviously took it personal.

I maintain that when they were asking them about this bountygate shit, that they denied that there was any kind of system to intentionally hurt offensive players on opposing teams, which I genuinely believe just as much as I genuinely believe that Auburn never had diddly shit to do with a pay for play scandal with Cam Newton. They probably figured that since every team in professional sports has a similar system, and the level of shadiness going on there is on par with a waiter not declaring his tips on his taxes to the fedgov, that it wasn't worth mentioning. Obviously a mistake they are paying for way more than I feel it deserves.

I mean, in the history of the NFL no head coach has ever been suspended one game. And they suspend Payton a whole fucking season? For this? Let alone the assistant head coach and the fucking GM for 8 and 6 games respectively. And Gregg Williams, apparently, for good. It's completely unprecedented. The Patriots straight up fucking cheated and got the fine portion of our penalty, which is obviously the smallest part.

I get that the Saints should have been penalized. The fine, and the two 2nd round picks. That's fair. But the punishment does not fit the crime, in spite of hatas hating.

War Eagle!!! · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:48:28 AM »

I take offense to that....wait...what? Hatas? Not haters? nevermind...carry on...

Godfather · « **Reply #54 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:48:51 AM »

Quote

every team in professional sports

A. This is your opinion, you do not know that to be true and as the esteemed counselor from the panhandle pointed out they weren't doing bounties for sacks and pancakes and stuff like that, and yes I am sure many NFL teams do that. They were out to permanently injure players...there is a HUGE difference in that.

B. The bigger problem with this statement Chizad, and a problem I believe with society in general is....

JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT....DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. It isn't a valid defense...it is an argument a teenager has with their parents.

AUJarhead · « **Reply #55 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:50:09 AM »

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/new_orleans_saints_need_quarte.html

Pete Finney has been writing for the TP as long as I can remember.

He's right, Mickey Loomis needs to get this deal with Brees done ASAHFP.

Quote

You can't wait, Saints owner Tom Benson. You've already wasted too much time. Sit down with quarterback Drew Brees. Sign him to a new contract. Right now.

The New Orleans Saints need quarterback Drew Brees in the fold long-term now more than ever.

Make him head coach and general manager of the Saints, at least for the 2012 season, while you try to recover from Bounty-gate.

I stand by what I wrote March 4: "This is not the time you want Drew Brees walking around with a franchise tag, placed there by a franchise that has been disgraced. You want him out there, wearing No. 9, selling the franchise, something he has done, on and off the field, the past six years."

What role should Brees fill?

Benson should hand the football side of his franchise to the face of the franchise.

Considering the circumstances, there has never been a time when one player, one voice, meant more to the immediate future of an NFL franchise.

And I include quarterback Peyton Manning during his heyday with the Indianapolis Colts.

At the moment, they say the Saints and Brees have a $5 million per year difference in discussions over a long-term contract.

So what.

This comes at a time NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended New Orleans' Sean Payton for the 2012 season, in effect, handing the head coach a $6 million fine. Too harsh? I don't think so.

And what did Brees say?

"I am speechless," Brees posted on his Twitter account. "Sean Payton is a great coach and mentor. The best there is. I need to hear an explanation for this punishment."

In so many words, here's Goodell's explanation: He lied to me about his team's pay-for-performance bounty system, and he tried to get other coaches to lie as well. He continued to mislead and misrepresent what was going on in the organization.

That poses the question: Does Benson feel Payton should return as head coach?

I have no idea.

Personally, I'd like to see Payton return. Some say he should be banned forever. I say he deserves to pay a price for sins that will forever haunt him. If he chooses, and he's wanted, I say he should coach on.

Payton lived in a dream world. He told Jay Glazer of Fox Sports he was "stunned," that he had braced himself for a four-game suspension, not a year's suspension, that he thought linebackers coach Joe Vitt would take over as interim head coach while he sat out a short suspension. Goodell KO'd that idea by sidelining Vitt for six games.

No doubt Payton wanted another shot to stay with a quarterback that made him a better coach. And you can be sure he looked at Brees as the best man to carry the torch for someone who made him a better quarterback, a twosome tied at the hip on a journey to the Super Bowl.

With General Manager Mickey Loomis out of the picture for the first eight regular-season games of the 2012 season, head coach/quarterback Brees and his defensive coordinator, Steve Spagnuolo, could deal with the defensive chaos left in the bounty-gate fallout.

How many of the 22 to 27 defensive players the league said was involved in the scheme will return?

What about Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma?

The league still is reviewing the case with the Players Association.

"While I will not address players conduct at this time, I am troubled by the fact players, including leaders among defensive players, embraced this program so enthusiastically and participated with what appears to have been a deliberate lack of concern for the well-being of fellow players," Goodell said.

At a time like this, a disgraced franchise couldn't find anyone more suited to clean up the mess than a guy like Drew Brees.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #56 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:53:50 AM »

I don't have a dog in the fight and don't like or hate the Aint's. I only hate one...now former....NFL player, Hines Ward, for ending Jimmy Brumbaugh's career with a cheap shot...but that's another story. But IMO, if it was shown that the bounties included injuring players and that Aint's personnel lied about it, then they should have been hammered. Apparently they did and they were. But the severity is over the top. Since Wes brought that up about using this "opportunity", for lack of a better term, to bolster their defense against the former players, it looks to me like that's a viable explanation for the nature of the penalties.

Godfather · « **Reply #57 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:55:34 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on March 22, 2012, 10:48:51 AM

B. The bigger problem with this statement Chizad, and a problem I believe with society in general is....

JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT....DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. It isn't a valid defense...it is an argument a teenager has with their parents.

To add to my own quote...Also if everyone in the NFL does do it...Goodell sent a message yesterday....STOP!

AUChizad · « **Reply #58 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:00:12 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on March 22, 2012, 10:48:51 AM

A. This is your opinion, you do not know that to be true and as the esteemed counselor from the panhandle pointed out they weren't doing bounties for sacks and pancakes and stuff like that, and yes I am sure many NFL teams do that. They were out to permanently injure players...there is a HUGE difference in that.

I do know this to be true. The players themselves on just about every team in the leagues has stated as such. Are they lying? Do they have a vested interested in criminalizing themselves to defend the New Orleans Saints? I've heard of these types of pools way before these allegations, and like I said, I've heard of them in other professional sports, at different levels. Trust me, they all do it. As for the intent to harm, everyone involved has denied it flat-out with a sincerity that I believe. Sorry, but I think the media-fueled hysteria has created this boogeyman.

Quote

B. The bigger problem with this statement Chizad, and a problem I believe with society in general is....

JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT....DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. It isn't a valid defense...it is an argument a teenager has with their parents.

Bullshit. This is not a kid getting caught smoking pot.

If literally every single team does it, how the FUCK can you justify arbitrarily punishing one with this extreme.

Every human on Earth takes shits, but we're going to give this guy lethal injection for the dump he just took.

It's asinine. More asinine than making a poop metaphor.

Godfather · « **Reply #59 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:03:13 AM »

Quote from: AUChizad on March 22, 2012, 11:00:12 AM

I do know this to be true. The players themselves on just about every team in the leagues has stated as such. Are they lying? Do they have a vested interested in criminalizing themselves to defend the New Orleans Saints? I've heard of these types of pools way before these allegations, and like I said, I've heard of them in other professional sports, at different levels. Trust me, they all do it. As for the intent to harm, everyone involved has denied it flat-out with a sincerity that I believe. Sorry, but I think the media-fueled hysteria has created this boogeyman.
Bullshit. This is not a kid getting caught smoking pot.

If literally every single team does it, how the FUCK can you justify arbitrarily punishing one with this extreme.

Every human on Earth takes shits, but we're going to give this guy lethal injection for the dump he just took.

It's asinine. More asinine than making a poop metaphor.

Dude, you can't see the forest through your black and gold glasses.