Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana

[AUChizad]

Question.  How is someone tested on a traffic stop for grass?  I'm talking about someone who blazes up at home and then gets in the car.  Let's say the cop just looks at someone, eyes red, acting impaired, decides to test.  Can you test at the scene for marijuana?  Asking because I don't know.  If someone is tested through blood or urine samples, doesn't THC stay in the system for quite a long time? Like weeks?

Yes. There's no equivalent to a breathalizer. But it stays in your urine for up to several months, depending on your tolerance/immune system/metabolism.

And GH, I agree with you, but how did I become your hypothetical pothead? I can count on one...ok maybe two hands the number of times I've smoked.

[AUChizad]

Also, the dangerousness of a stoned person vs. a drunk, reminds me of this song.

Warning: British people trying to rap

[GarMan]

Looks like you've solved the problem.

Really? 

Let's outlaw cookies, so the drug dealers will be selling those to our children instead.

Well, if there's enough of a demand, there's likely a potential profit in it. 

[djsimp]

Umm...  Withdrawal symptoms are not necessarily an indication of addiction, and addiction does not always mean chemical dependency.  You might want to look into that.  Oh BTW, you can also suffer from withdrawal symptoms after long term persistent marijuana use, and that doesn't necessarily mean that there was any sort of addiction to marijuana.

Actually, the withdrawal symptoms are signs of physical dependency...and that goes for all drugs or whatever the foreign ingredient is. The drugs or alcohol trigger the brain to release a chemicals it usually releases in natural instances. You put enough of the foreign in, the brain adjust by not producing its own thus when the use of the false chemical ceases, the body usually suffers from some sort of withdrawal. The psychological part comes in by one having to change habits that included the drug or habit.

[djsimp]

Well, if there's enough of a demand, there's likely a potential profit in it.

The Girl Scouts will be pissed.

[Snaggletiger]

Yes. There's no equivalent to a breathalizer. But it stays in your urine for up to several months, depending on your tolerance/immune system/metabolism.

And GH, I agree with you, but how did I become your hypothetical pothead? I can count on one...ok maybe two hands the number of times I've smoked.

Could I buy some pot from you?

[Vandy Vol]

Question.  How is someone tested on a traffic stop for grass?  I'm talking about someone who blazes up at home and then gets in the car.  Let's say the cop just looks at someone, eyes red, acting impaired, decides to test.  Can you test at the scene for marijuana?  Asking because I don't know.  If someone is tested through blood or urine samples, doesn't THC stay in the system for quite a long time? Like weeks?

Field sobriety test in addition to the officer's observations concerning slurred speech, dilation of eyes, odor of marijuana, etc.

It's no different than when they pull you over and charge you with drunk driving even though you never took a breathalyzer test to see what your actual BAC was; you can still be charged with a DUI based off of the officer's other observations, and his determination that you are too impaired to drive.

[GH2001]

Yes. There's no equivalent to a breathalizer. But it stays in your urine for up to several months, depending on your tolerance/immune system/metabolism.

And GH, I agree with you, but how did I become your hypothetical pothead? I can count on one...ok maybe two hands the number of times I've smoked.

Just an example since you are on the legalization side of the argument. I could have used simp or JR as well. No reason really.

And GarMan, you are dead wrong on the dependency. Some drugs are pysch. and some are physical. Some are both such as Heroin. Alcohol's dependency itself is physical. The reason they might start could be in their head.

[GarMan]

People that drink huge amounts of hard liquor now wear panties? Says the guy that brags about smoking but doesn't inhale.

You can take it sweetheart...  And, if you know of anyone who claims to consistently inhale cigar smoke, they're lying to you.  There's no reason to inhale.  It makes for a miserable experience, and there's no benefit whatsoever.  It's stupid. 

Seriously though, I was a MUCH bigger danger to society in that state than Chad would be if he took a couple of tokes. It is what it is.

How do you compare consuming huge amounts of hard liquor with a couple of tokes from a joint?  This doesn't make any sense to me. 

Again, I personally don't like Pot. I think it fucking reeks and people who smoke it are typically morons. But who the hell am I to tell someone else they can't have something that is generally the same level of danger if not less, than things that are already legal? You are using Prohibition level logic here. All of yours and Tarheel's arguments against have been debunked by others on here - addictive? Of narcotics, cigs and alcohol, its the lesser of the 4. danger? again, no more than those 3. What exactly IS your issue with it?

Well, you say debunked, but it's just a matter of personal opinion.  The vitriol used by the pro-pot crowd has made me numb to the entire issue.  I don't see a logical argument for pot legalization.  I don't see a reasonable plan for how decriminalization could be achieved.  Other than Tarheel, nobody has had a serious review of the regulations and infrastructure that would be necessary to support or enable legalization.  So, I'll ask again...  Why?  What's the purpose?  Where's the benefit?  Give me a tangible reason other than, you wanna new drug, man. 

Don't mistake my cop resource argument with why I think it should be legal in some form. That is more of a side effect, not the reason. Ask any cop on the resource issues in most towns. One less thing to worry about is always a good thing. Any kind of bust no matter how minor will take up resources. The prison thing is more the good side effect to me than the patrol stops. Again, this is a possible good side effect, not the reason I am advocating it happen. 

Well, that's you...  But, many on the pro-pot side believe that the War on Drugs would be far less costly if marijuana were to be decriminalized.  The fact is, we'd really just be shifting the costs from policing it to regulating it.  We'd still have bans on illegal imports.  We'd still have bans on the illegal distribution of it.  We'd have to regulate it's manufacture, processing and distribution.  We'd likely even have to put the FDA in charge of it.  And as for taxes, after you put all of those controls, regulations and new laws in place, the tax revenue would likely be insignificant when compared to the costs necessary to support it.  If I'm wrong, give me a legitimate analysis.  Show me how it could work. 

[GarMan]

Actually, the withdrawal symptoms are signs of physical dependency...and that goes for all drugs or whatever the foreign ingredient is. The drugs or alcohol trigger the brain to release a chemicals it usually releases in natural instances. You put enough of the foreign in, the brain adjust by not producing its own thus when the use of the false chemical ceases, the body usually suffers from some sort of withdrawal. The psychological part comes in by one having to change habits that included the drug or habit.

Pretty much...  Although, not all withdrawal symptoms can be attributed to physical dependency.  Some are psychological...  beta-male stuff... 

[GarMan]

And GarMan, you are dead wrong on the dependency. Some drugs are pysch. and some are physical. Some are both such as Heroin. Alcohol's dependency itself is physical. The reason they might start could be in their head.

Well, the last 5 rehab clinic/center websites that I just pulled up on teh GoogleWebz don't exactly disagree with me.  They seem to recognize both, a psychological and chemical dependency, with alcohol, and they appear to suggest that it's the psychological dependency that's harder to break.  The 12 step program stuff... 

[djsimp]

Well, the last 5 rehab clinic/center websites that I just pulled up on teh GoogleWebz don't exactly disagree with me.  They seem to recognize both, a psychological and chemical dependency, with alcohol, and they appear to suggest that it's the psychological dependency that's harder to break.  The 12 step program stuff...

Again its both, and all depends on how long a person has been hooked on alcohol. Same goes for pot, but pot takes a lot longer to gain a physical dependency on. Ironically, its the drugs that the quacks prescribe you that is the most addictive and physically dependent.

The argument I have with pot being illegal is the fact that it can be just as productive as prescription drugs in many cases and do less harm on ones body. I tend to think that weed as a prescribed medicine throughout all the states is the way to go and not a total, all out, legalization. Maybe one day in a step by step method but not all at once because they're way too many stupid ass people out there.

[Snaggletiger]

Just personal opinion here but I think the level of chemical and/or psychological dependency varies from person to person.  I know AU1 and I have had many conversations about drinking.  I'll admit to going long periods where I'm an every night drinker to a certain extent.  It may be a few beers.  It might be a couple of glasses of wine.  Or I may hammer back some fine burrbin and delicious coke product.  It's as much a habit with me as anything else.  It's routine to finish the work day, go work out, come home and eat, help the kid with homework...whatever, then time to relax and have a few.  Yeah, I realize my liver hates me.  But...having said that...when I make the commitment to stop for a while, I never, ever have had a physical craving for it.  Never any physical problems whatsoever.  But it's far more a situation of when it gets to be about 8:30 or 9:00 and I sit down to turn on a game...I'm going, "What do I do now?  Something's missing.  I'm supposed to be gettin' my buzz on" 

So with me, I really see where alcohol can cause a psychological dependency. Now, meth....I'm not addicted.  I've been doing that for 10 years and I can quit any time I want.

[GH2001]

You can take it sweetheart...  And, if you know of anyone who claims to consistently inhale cigar smoke, they're lying to you.  There's no reason to inhale.  It makes for a miserable experience, and there's no benefit whatsoever.  It's stupid. 
How do you compare consuming huge amounts of hard liquor with a couple of tokes from a joint?  This doesn't make any sense to me. 
Well, you say debunked, but it's just a matter of personal opinion.  The vitriol used by the pro-pot crowd has made me numb to the entire issue.  I don't see a logical argument for pot legalization.  I don't see a reasonable plan for how decriminalization could be achieved.  Other than Tarheel, nobody has had a serious review of the regulations and infrastructure that would be necessary to support or enable legalization.  So, I'll ask again...  Why?  What's the purpose?  Where's the benefit?  Give me a tangible reason other than, you wanna new drug, man. 
Well, that's you...  But, many on the pro-pot side believe that the War on Drugs would be far less costly if marijuana were to be decriminalized.  The fact is, we'd really just be shifting the costs from policing it to regulating it.  We'd still have bans on illegal imports.  We'd still have bans on the illegal distribution of it.  We'd have to regulate it's manufacture, processing and distribution.  We'd likely even have to put the FDA in charge of it.  And as for taxes, after you put all of those controls, regulations and new laws in place, the tax revenue would likely be insignificant when compared to the costs necessary to support it.  If I'm wrong, give me a legitimate analysis.  Show me how it could work.

The tangible reason is actually for you to prove. You are the accuser, so show me burden of proof.

[GH2001]

Just personal opinion here but I think the level of chemical and/or psychological dependency varies from person to person.  I know AU1 and I have had many conversations about drinking.  I'll admit to going long periods where I'm an every night drinker to a certain extent.  It may be a few beers.  It might be a couple of glasses of wine.  Or I may hammer back some fine burrbin and delicious coke product.  It's as much a habit with me as anything else.  It's routine to finish the work day, go work out, come home and eat, help the kid with homework...whatever, then time to relax and have a few.  Yeah, I realize my liver hates me.  But...having said that...when I make the commitment to stop for a while, I never, ever have had a physical craving for it.  Never any physical problems whatsoever.  But it's far more a situation of when it gets to be about 8:30 or 9:00 and I sit down to turn on a game...I'm going, "What do I do now?  Something's missing.  I'm supposed to be gettin' my buzz on" 

So with me, I really see where alcohol can cause a psychological dependency. Now, meth....I'm not addicted.  I've been doing that for 10 years and I can quit any time I want.

You are like that because you are not dependent on it. Same with most people who drink. I do admit its a minority that it turns into an issue for.

[GarMan]

The tangible reason is actually for you to prove. You are the accuser, so show me burden of proof.

Well, if I'm understanding you and others correctly, you're the ones advocating change.  Marijuana is already illegal throughout most of the United States and most civilized countries, in fact.  I don't have to prove anything.  If anybody is serious about decriminalizing it, the pro-pot movement/lobby/drum-circle/whatever will need to do a lot better with their arguments.  I could only imagine that every time they try to organize something, they get too stoned to put together a viable strategy...  The funny thing is, I'm sort of open to the idea, but I haven't seen or heard anything reasonable to justify it.  And, from a pure Libertarian perspective, why not legalize everything?  I could actually go for that if it could be accompanied by abolishing the FDA and all forms of welfare.  How do you like 'em applez?

Here's something interesting that I've been meaning to bring up... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=marijuana-mouth-spray

[GarMan]

The argument I have with pot being illegal is the fact that it can be just as productive as prescription drugs in many cases and do less harm on ones body. I tend to think that weed as a prescribed medicine throughout all the states is the way to go and not a total, all out, legalization. Maybe one day in a step by step method but not all at once because they're way too many stupid ass people out there. 

I'm open to that, but not as fraudulently as done in Kalifornia.  I think there's a rational argument for narcotics and narcotic derivatives in medicine.  Take a look at that Scientific American article that I just posted.  I bet there are a ton of medical ailments that can be treated with raw or processed marijuana, tobacco, cocaine, etc... 

[djsimp]

I'm open to that, but not as fraudulently as done in Kalifornia.  I think there's a rational argument for narcotics and narcotic derivatives in medicine.  Take a look at that Scientific American article that I just posted.  I bet there are a ton of medical ailments that can be treated with raw or processed marijuana, tobacco, cocaine, etc...

That would be more likely to pass in the US anyways, as stated in the article that is. The west coast states are very lenient in prescribing. I have a old friend that tells me all about it. Funny thing is, its grown by the government but thats a whole other argument. If you have a chance, take a look at the youtube clip I posted if you haven't already. Its things like that, that really opens my views up to use of teh moto in medicines.

[AUTiger1]

If you don't think that alcohol can't be a physical dependence then watch someone go through the DTs with your own eyes in front of you. 

Now personally I am in the same boat as Snaggle, for me, it's a habit.  Sometimes it will be a have a drink every night, catch a buzz most of those, to stretches where I won't drink for a month, sometimes two or three.  I haven't got nor do I plan on getting so far that my body has to have it.

[JR4AU]

Well, the last 5 rehab clinic/center websites that I just pulled up on teh GoogleWebz don't exactly disagree with me.  They seem to recognize both, a psychological and chemical dependency, with alcohol, and they appear to suggest that it's the psychological dependency that's harder to break.  The 12 step program stuff...

The psychological dependance may be more difficult to break, but there's definitely a physical dependance too.  So, is your exposure and knowledge of chemical dependance limited to what you can find on the innnerwebz that supports your preconceived notions, or do you have any real life experience dealing with people who are addicted?