"Who Dat" Bounty Games...

[RWS]

Yes. The "3rd party" Goodell hand-picked said he agrees with Goodell...unless he doesn't. And legally does not have the evidence to justify it, so he's going to overturn the ruling...even though it was right in the first place.

That's the NFL PR guy (Greg Aiello)'s spin on Goodell's shill (Tagliabue)'s spin. And you lap it up. So you believe that he had all the evidence to nail them against the fucking wall (i.e. the mythical 500 pages), but just...didn't. Just smeared egg all over the NFL's face for what reason, exactly, in your estimation?

As a few people opined earlier in this thread, just the few pages that some saw was pretty solid.  I agree with it as well.  It's pretty clear what they are talking about.  I think that the NFL has made its point.  Everybody knows what went down.  There simply isn't any point in spending more money and time on it imo.  Having this tag attached to these guys will probably hurt them more than further suspensions.

[noxin]

Doesn't matter that they were cleared.  We all know Cam was paid the Saints cheated

[AUTiger1]

Can you prove it?

Looks like the NFL is having a hard time doing so.

Don't have to, saw it on ESPN.  They cheated.  Bammers of the NFL.

[RWS]

Doesn't matter that they were cleared.  We all know Cam was paid the Saints cheated

They weren't cleared.  That's the thing.

[AUChizad]

They weren't cleared.  That's the thing.

They were.

Their suspensions were "vacated".

Cam was cleared by the NCAA although "his father shopped him around".

Exactly. The. Same. Thing.

[The Six]

It's like that time Admiral Kirk broke all those Starfleet rules and stuff to go rescue Spock's captcha or whatever. Then, on the way back, he saved Earth by going back in time and bringing the 7th Heaven mom and some whales back for repopulation. The found him guilt and and bumped his rank but he still had a job and was reverred and all. It's just like that.

[Townhallsavoy]

They were.

There suspensions were "vacated".

Cam was cleared by the NCAA although "his father shopped him around".

Exactly. The. Same. Thing.

This thread makes me realize why Cam Newton and Auburn will never be vindicated.  In ten years, we'll watch a 30 for 30 episode on how Auburn cheated and got away with it. 

[ssgaufan]

This thread =   

[War Eagle!!!]

This thread =   

[AWK]

Who the fuck are the Saints?

[AUChizad]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/will-smith-tagliabue-got-the-facts-goodell-rushed-to-judgment/

Will Smith: Tagliabue got the facts, Goodell rushed to judgment
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 11, 2012, 5:49 PM EST

Upon learning that he will not be suspended in the Saints bounty case, defensive end Will Smith thanked the man who rescinded his suspension — and ripped the man who originally suspended him.

Smith said he appreciated that former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue took the time to consider the players’ side of the story and said that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell rushed to judgment without waiting for the facts.

“I’m pleased with the ruling of Mr. Tagliabue to vacate my suspension,” Smith said. “I continue to maintain that I did not participate in a pay-to-injure program or facilitate any such program. I appreciate that Mr. Taglaibue did not rush to judgment, taking into consideration all facts presented to him, before ruling– something that was clearly not done by Commissioner Goodell in previous hearings. I am looking forward to putting this all behind me and getting back to the game I love. I want to thank the New Orleans Saints, the NFL Players Association, the fans, my friends and family for their continued support throughout this ordeal.”

Smith and his fellow suspended Saints have said all along that Goodell botched the bounty investigation, and now Smith and his fellow Saints are celebrating a victory handed to them by Goodell’s predecessor.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/vilmas-lawyer-bashes-goodell-for-manufactured-allegations/

Vilma’s lawyer bashes Goodell for “manufactured allegations”
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 11, 2012, 2:55 PM EST

The attorney for Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma says NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s “manufactured allegations” have tarnished Vilma’s reputation.

And attorney Peter Ginsberg says that while former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue did the right thing by lifting Vilma’s suspension, Tagliabue now needs to publicly release all of the testimony he relied on in making his decision in the bounty case.

“Two competing forces have been at play since at least March of this year – Roger Goodell has been trying every conceivable maneuver to avoid real and honest
scrutiny of his manufactured allegations that Jonathan Vilma engaged in a bounty program aimed at opposing players and Jonathan has been fighting to have an open and fair review of those accusations,” Ginsberg said in a statement. “We are obviously relieved and gratified that Jonathan no longer needs to worry about facing an unjustified suspension. On the other hand, Commissioner Tagliabue’s rationalization of Commissioner Goodell’s actions does nothing to rectify the harm done by the baseless allegations lodged against Jonathan. Jonathan has a right and every intention to pursue proving what really occurred and we look forward to returning to a public forum where the true facts can see the light of day. We call upon Commissioner Tagliabue to release the transcripts of the proceedings held before him so that they are available as we go forward. Finally, it is regrettable that the NFL continues unjustifiably to attack the New Orleans Saints, an organization comprised of decent and honest people who continue to stand strong in the face of these baseless attacks.”

The big question as Vilma goes forward with his defamation case is what impact those transcripts will have. Tagliabue has rescinded Vilma’s suspension, but he hasn’t said Vilma did nothing wrong. If Vilma’s defamation case goes to trial, a jury will get to see the same evidence Tagliabue has seen, and a jury will determine whether Goodell defamed Vilma by overstating just what the case was against him.

[Vandy Vol]

Who the fuck are the Saints?

Cheaters.

[AUTiger1]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/will-smith-tagliabue-got-the-facts-goodell-rushed-to-judgment/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/vilmas-lawyer-bashes-goodell-for-manufactured-allegations/

Like someplace called profootballtalk is legit.    Pppppppppppfffffffftttttttt.  Cheaters!

People still watch the IN eff Lolwut after Montana? 

[AUChizad]

What are they hiding? How right they were all along?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/nfl-tagliabue-want-to-prevent-release-of-bounty-hearing-transcript/

NFL, Tagliabue want to prevent release of bounty hearing transcript
Posted by Mike Florio on December 12, 2012, 10:32 AM EST

Last week, it was widely believed that the transcript of the Paul Tagliabue-led bounty hearings would be released not long after his decision was issued.

That belief was fueled in large part by the expectation that Tagliabue would issue a ruling that did something less than wipe out the suspensions, resulting in the players pushing the case back to federal court and necessitating a full study of the testimony by Judge Helen Berrigan.

Unless the players who were determined to have engaged in conduct detrimental to the league opt to obtain a full exoneration (which is possible, but would be pricey), the transcripts will for now remain under wraps.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, both the NFL and Tagliabue are trying to ensure that the testimony never sees the light of day.

One reason is that the testimony from Saints interim head coach Joe Vitt has been described to us as “brutal,” but also compelling and informative.

Coincidentally (or not), one paragraph contained in Tagliabue’s 22-page, single-spaced ruling describes Vitt as not credible.

“Vitt admitted to NFL investigators in 2012 that he ‘fabricated the truth’ when he spoke to an NFL investigator in March 2010 about whether there had been a bounty on [Brett] Favre,” Tagliabue writes.  “[Vitt] later claimed that his admitted fabrication was just ‘stretching the truth’ because he failed to describe for investigators the emotionalism of the defensive team meeting the night before the NFC Championship Game.  As a result of Vitt’s admissions and conflicting testimonies, I find that any attribution made by him cannot be given particular weight.”

It would be nice to examine his full testimony with our own eyes.  Given that the NFL has made this case a matter of public concern, and in light of the fact that the suspensions arise from a desire to ensure public confidence in the game of professional football, the transcripts need to be released.

And I say that knowing that, once they are, I’ll be reading hundreds of pages of questions and answers, scouring through plenty of noting in search of those random, fleeting passages that shed light on the subject.

[AUChizad]

Click link for video.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57558666/demaurice-smith-nfl-bounty-program-never-existed/

DeMaurice Smith: NFL bounty program "never existed"

(CBS News) Professional football's New Orleans Saints have had a season of turmoil. Nine months ago, the team was accused of paying reward money for causing injuries on the field.

But on Tuesday, the suspensions of four players accused of being part of that bounty system were thrown out.

Saints bounty suspensions overturned by former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue

Back in October, National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell removed himself from hearing any appeals in the so-called "Bountygate" scandal, and chose his predecessor, former commissioner Paul Tagliabue, to make the final ruling. For many, the decision was surprising: Tagliabue essentially overruled Goodell and dropped the suspensions of four current and former New Orleans' players.

The NFL alleges that, starting in 2009, under defensive coordinator Greg Williams, the Saints ran a "pay-for-pain" program, which rewarded players for intentionally hurting opposing players. In the NFC Championship game between the Saints and Vikings in 2010, Minnesota quarterback Brett Favre was allegedly a specific target. In March of 2012, New Orleans linebacker Jonathan Vilma was suspended for the entire season. His teammate, defensive end Will Smith, received a lesser punishment, as did Scott Fujita, now with the Browns, and Anthony Hargrove, now a free agent.

Just this past Sunday, Hargrove spoke with James Brown on CBS Sports' "The NFL Today" -- and denied the bounty program ever existed. Brown asked, "There was never any payments offered at all for injuring an opponent?"

Hargrove replied, "Never payment nor discussions ever talking about injuring our opponents or anybody."

But Tagliabue came to a very different conclusion -- affirming the NFL's belief the bounty program was very real. But his ruling seems to take the blame off the players, and put it squarely on the New Orleans' coaches: "Senior Saints' coaches conceived, encouraged and directed the program."

On "CBS This Morning," DeMaurice Smith, NFL Players Association executive director, disagreed with the ruling and said there is no evidence that bounties ever existed. He said, "Having seen nearly 50,000 pages of evidence and nearly 20 hours of testimony, I know that there was no bounty put on players by Saints players."

He also said, "I'm disappointed in the National Football League and certainly in the way they conducted an investigation because I now know having read and seen all of the testimony that there was certainly no evidence that the bounties existed and frankly, I was a prosecutor in [Washington, D.C.] for 10 years. I understand how to do investigations. And the investigation that the league did was sloppy, the investigation that they did was more outcome-focused than frankly process-focused."

Smith called on the NFL to apologize to players. "First and foremost, they should say they're sorry because they've maligned the character of good players," Smith said, and then added, "and if they certainly believe that they are right, the one thing that Roger Goodell could do is simply release the transcripts and we will all know the truth."

Asked if the NFL should apologize to the Saints head coach Sean Payton, who was not permitted to participate this season, Smith said "yes," but acknowledged "there's a difference between where the players were and the coaches are."

"The difference is the players have a union," Smith said. "And at a time when unions are under attack, this is what unions do. We fight. And we believe there are times when our players are wrongly treated, we will fight for their fairness and fight for fundamental fairness."

Payton remains suspended for the entire season while former defensive coordinator Williams remains suspended indefinitely. Vilma intends to continue his defamation lawsuit against Goodell.

For Smith's full interview, watch the video in the player above.

[War Eagle!!!]

Holy. Fuck.

I don't think I have read as much of anything as Chad has posted articles of this...

[AUChizad]

Nails. It.

http://www.saintswin.com/2012/12/chasing-ghosts-of-bountygate.html?spref=tw

Chasing the Ghosts of BountyGate

On Tuesday, Paul Tagliabue inched BountyGate toward its conclusion and provided a worthy context for the events in question.

Tagliabue exonerated the players--vacating their suspensions completely--while at the same time indicting Saints' coaches and the organization for their roles in the farce that is BountyGate.

When you parse the specifics, Tagliabue accused Saints' coaches of administering a pay-for-performance program and one (only one) "alleged bounty," sharply contrasting with Roger Goodell's initial portrayal of an institutionalized pay-to-injure program that routinely targeted opponents for injury.

What it boils down to is Saints' coaches being punished for administering a program largely in theory, not for anything that ever happened on the field. Supporting this assertion, Tagliabue stated "none of the discipline of any player here relates to on-field conduct."

It's a crystal-clear admission that whatever transpired in the locker room for motivational purposes never morphed into malice on the field. This is at the heart of the NFL's misguided quest to use the Saints as a public exhibit--a symbolic pelt--in their transparent, hollow campaign to champion player safety and insulate themselves from future litigation.

By Tagliabue's logic the players are innocent of any on-field transgressions while the coaches are guilty of administering a purportedly malicious program, one that no player ever implemented to the detriment of any opponent's wellbeing for three seasons.

The logic behind this--that the coaches established a program, yet the players never executed it in a manner that would invite discipline--is illustrative of the flimsy foundation that the BountyGate accusations have always rested upon.

What's more is that Tagliabue assented to a league-wide culture that has fostered the "acceptance of pay-for-performance reward programs," one in New Orleans that he said--via its evidence--supports the "realities of NFL team workplaces." More damning to Goodell's and the league's initial allegations is this precedent for handling pay-for-performance programs that reward clean, legal hits:

    "[T]he League has not previously suspended or fined players for some of the activities in which these players participated and has in the recent past imposed only minimal fines on NFL Clubs - - not players - - of a mere $25,000 or less."


Tagliabue is specifically referring to similar programs run in Green Bay and New England in 2007 and 2008 (pg. 17) where the clubs were fined only $25,000. Reflecting Goodell's bias and overreach, Tagliabue asserted that the disparity in sanctions "raises significant issues regarding inconsistent treatment between players and teams."

In this context, the truly egregious and unjust punishments from Roger Goodell are more apparent than ever before. Even his predecessor admits it.

Further, Tagliabue explained that the NFL rules regarding entrenched pay-for-performance systems--which he examined in History of Performance Pools in the NFL (pg. 14)--are not "fully articulated" and that they lack a "concrete set of guidelines or prohibitions."

It's a reflection of the nebulous nature of 1.) the league's position on and 2.) what comprises said programs, and sheds a light on the coaches' denials; perhaps what Goodell accused the coaches of administering (pay-to-injure) wasn't in fact being administered, hence the presumed obfuscation.

No matter, Tagliabue espoused a belief that this program went awry in New Orleans, calling it "deeply misguided." When you consider that no discipline was levied for on-field misconduct, this statement reeks of hyperbole and may be included solely for the benefit of protecting Roger Goodell against further litigation.

Aside from one alleged bounty on Brett Favre, the evidence supporting a "deeply misguided" program is bare and, perhaps, nonexistent. As for the Favre bounty that the NFL was never capable of proving existed, Tagliabue said:

    "Adding to the complexity, there is little evidence of the tone of any talk about a bounty before the Vikings game. Was any bounty pledged serious? Was it inspirational only? Was it typical 'trash talk' that occurs regularly before and during games? The parties presented no clear answers. No witness could confirm whether Vilma had any money in his hands as he spoke; no evidence was presented that $10,000 was available to him for purposes of paying a bounty or otherwise. There was no evidence that Vilma or anyone else paid any money to any player for any bounty-related hit on an opposing player in the Vikings game."


No clear answers. No evidence.

Anthony Hargrove's suspension Tagliabue called "unprecedented and unwarranted." Though Goodell punished Hargrove for making false statements to investigators, Tagliabue said "it remains unclear what exactly Hargrove was asked by investigators regarding the Program."

Think it through.

Goodell suspended Hargrove for lying, but wasn't sure what Hargrove had been asked. Doesn't the accuser require knowledge of the question before he can determine if the accused's answer is a lie? Right, Mary Jo White?

Who's the liar here?

Of Scott Fujita, Tagliabue called his non-participation in the Saints' program "undisputed," a judgment that may powerfully bolster another future lawsuit versus Goodell.

Tagliabue called Goodell's punishment of Will Smith "inappropriate when most or all of the Saints’ defensive unit committed the same or similar acts as those underpinning the discipline of Smith." Those acts? Participating in a pay-for-performance program that even Tagliabue conceded "the league has tolerated."

In full rebuke, Tagliabue chastised Goodell for violating "basic requirements for consistent treatment."

Basic.

Ultimately, Tagliabue fairly and correctly exonerated the players while assigning blame--tenuous as it may be--to the Saints' coaches in order to prevent Goodell from being exposed to the full brunt of Jonathan Vilma's pending defamation lawsuit.

Make no mistake about it: the CBA Appeals' Board overturned Goodell's ruling, Judge Berrigan castigated Goodell for his actions, and then Tagliabue vacated completely the punishments. That's a damning sequence of events for the commissioner, especially in light of the harshness of the penalties. This was a fuck-up of massive proportion.

Had Tagliabue found Goodell's investigation and punishments credible, he certainly would have upheld them. But he didn't. Never mind the spin and rhetoric coming from Greg Aiello and the NFL.

The proof is in the deed.

The fact that the NFL is now so desperately trying to shape these developments, a familiar act that's characterized their Bounty strategy along the way, is an indication that they're unwilling to let the actions speak for themselves.

In the end, it's obvious what happened.

The NFL took one alleged bounty from seasons ago, distorted it to represent a three-year pay-to-injure program, decimated the Saints with sanctions, held them high as a trophy of culture change, and then conducted a PR campaign under the auspices of benevolence and player safety.

The Saints and their fans were the collateral damage. Peripherally, Goodell slapped into line a franchise that dared defy him and exacted retribution on a coach (Payton) he was unable to keep under his terrorizing thumb.

It's a sad chapter for the NFL and, as always, we the fans are as big a loser as anyone in this stupid clusterfuck. What a god damned waste.

At the very least, the players and Saints' fans have been vindicated.

Not all is lost.

[AUTiger1]

Click link for video.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57558666/demaurice-smith-nfl-bounty-program-never-existed/

Wow...just wow.....everyone knows that CBS has a left leaning bias. 

[AUChizad]

Holy. Fuck.

I don't think I have read as much of anything as Chad has posted articles of this...

No one's making you read.

Most of you trolling to troll. If you want to continue making a retarded argument (RWS), I suggest you read what has been posted.

[Ogre]

None of this changes the fact that the Saints cheated.