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"Who Dat" Bounty Games...

Vandy Vol

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #480 on: September 07, 2012, 06:24:14 PM »
You're a tard...

This coming from the guy who said that a judge "ruled" something when she didn't have the authority to make a ruling of any kind.

This is, and always has been, between the NFLPA & the NFL. Coaches have nothing to do with the NFLPA.

And just because the coaches suspensions haven't been overturned yet, doesn't mean that the NFL Coaches Association won't step in after seeing the success of the NFLPA's case. Will that happen? I have no idea.

The point is that the appeals panel did not find anything wrong with (or, at the very least, chose to not make a determination regarding) the investigation itself and whether a bounty system was actually in place.

Rather, they merely decided that Goodell was not the appropriate person to dole out the suspension if no bounty system rewarding injuries was in place.  Instead, Burbank should dole out the suspensions for a mere pay for performance system, assuming that Goodell makes a determination that a bounty system was not in place.

So if the appeals panel found no reason to overturn Goodell's decision that a bounty system was in place, then that doesn't indicate that the coaches or the players should have their suspensions lifted...yet the players had their suspensions lifted, meanwhile the coaches did not.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 06:30:17 PM by Vandy Vol »
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Kaos

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #481 on: September 07, 2012, 06:37:36 PM »
But RWS is pissed because a judge didn't rule!

Obviously means they're really guilty.

Pick an argument and stick with it.

His arguments aren't mine. 

Judge had no authority.  Neither does this panel. 
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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #482 on: September 08, 2012, 07:38:22 AM »
Quote
Many are painting the decision to wipe out the bounty suspensions imposed against Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, Saints defensive end Will Smith, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove as a slam-dunk win for the players.

While it was a victory on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.

Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).

It’s likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions.  Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred — and that there should be significant punishment for it.

“Nothing in today’s decision contradicts any of the facts found in the investigation into this matter, or absolves any player of responsibility for conduct detrimental,” Pash writes.  “Nor does the decision in any way suggest what discipline would be appropriate for conduct that lies within the authority of the Commissioner.  Per the panel’s direction, the Commissioner will promptly reconsider the matter and make a determination of the appropriate discipline consistent with the standards set forth in today’s decision.  All clubs will be advised when that decision is made.”

It would be a surprise if the outcome is anything other than what it already was:  a full season for Vilma, four games for Smith, three games for Fujita, and eight games for Hargrove.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/leagues-internal-memo-suggests-that-suspensions-will-be-re-issued/
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #483 on: September 08, 2012, 09:54:35 AM »
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AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #484 on: September 08, 2012, 10:02:38 AM »
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RWS

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #485 on: September 08, 2012, 11:51:47 AM »
What are you talking about? Read.

A judge did rule that if she had the authority, she would absolutely rule against Goodell.
And that means absolutely dick. Because she didn't have the authority. It doesn't mean a bounty system didn't exist.

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A court of law doesn't have any more authority to rule on a suspension than the FBI does to put Auburn on probation for paying Cam Newton, but I wouldn't expect you to understand either.
That's what we kept trying to tell you a few weeks ago. You're preaching to the choir. When I told you that they were wasting their time taking it to court because they would get smacked down, you said:

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I'm sure they're taking this to court with the full realization that they have no case and will be wasting their own time, money, and further damaging their own reputation...

And they did. The judge can't rule on it. "The judge ruled that if she had the authority".....isn't a ruling. It is a judge simply saying "If I could". But it doesn't mean shit. The arbitration panel isn't legally binding, and is in no way shape or form a legal entity. He offered them a half of a season suspension, and they thumbed their noses at it. If I were him, I would stick with the full season suspension at this point.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #486 on: September 08, 2012, 03:42:49 PM »
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

GH2001

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #488 on: December 11, 2012, 02:56:39 PM »
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WDE

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #489 on: December 11, 2012, 03:02:59 PM »
chizad just came...a whole bunch.
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AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #490 on: December 11, 2012, 03:05:10 PM »
All suspensions vacated.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/nfl-declares-victory-retreats/

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NFL declares victory, retreats
Posted by Mike Florio on December 11, 2012, 2:12 PM EST
Goodell AP

In an earlier item analyzing the ultimate outcome of the bounty suspensions imposed on quartet of players, we pointed out that all parties will declare victory.

The NFL already has.

Appended to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello’s stream of tweetiousness summarizing the ruling from former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue is the league’s statement in response to the ruling.

“We respect Mr. Tagliabue’s decision, which underscores the due process afforded players in NFL disciplinary matters,” Aiello said.  “This matter has now been reviewed by Commissioner Goodell, two CBA grievance arbitrators, the CBA Appeals Panel, and Mr. Tagliabue as Commissioner Goodell’s designated appeals officer.  The decisions have made clear that the Saints operated a bounty program in violation of league rules for three years, that the program endangered player safety, and that the commissioner has the authority under the CBA to impose discipline for those actions as conduct detrimental to the league.  Strong action was taken in this matter to protect player safety and ensure that bounties would be eliminated from football.”

That’s factually correct, but the players had to fight and scratch and claw for due process, overcoming a flawed internal investigation effort that at times seems to be more concerned with P.R. than fairness and eventually forcing fairness only via an aggressive assault mounted by the players and the NFLPA in federal court.

So, yes, the system works.  As long as the players have access to good lawyers who have the intelligence, the creativity, and the will to push back hard against the efforts of the league to do what the league wants to do.

The points contained in the league’s statement were all made at the moment Goodell levied and upheld a variety of suspensions against non-players.  The last six months have been about trying to impose punishment on players who were merely doing what they were told to do and/or what they were never told by anyone they couldn’t do.

Regardless of the specific facts, this case proves that there are real limits to the otherwise seemingly unlimited power of the office of Commissioner.  As a result, the victors aren’t simply the four players who won’t be suspended but all current and future players who now have further protection against unwarranted or unfair discipline from the league office.

If that’s a win for the league, we’d hate to see what a loss looks like.

http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2012/12/11/3755602/tagliabues-specific-ruling-for-each-player-involved-in-bounty-scandal

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Tagliabue's Specific Ruling for Each Player Involved in Bounty Scandal

By Dave Cariello on Dec 11, 1:32p +

Derick E. Hingle-US PRESSWIRE

Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue's findings for each player involved in the bounty scandal.

Our man Albert Breer is all over former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue's appeal rulings today and he's got each of Tagliabue's rulings for each player involved up on his Twitter account.

On Jonathan Vilma:

    "I cannot, however, uphold a multi-game suspension where there is no evidence that a player's speech prior to a game was actually a factor causing misconduct on the playing field and that such misconduct was severe enough in itself to warrant a player suspension or a very substantial fine."

On Anthony Hargrove:

    There is "not sufficient evidence to demonstrate in these unique circumstances" that a suspension is warranted.

On Scott Fujita:

    Participation in "non-injury" pay pool is "typically subject only to club discipline", so no conduct detrimental.

On Will Smith:

    "Selective prosecution of allegations of misconduct and enforcement of discipline relative to Smith cannot be sustained." Enforcement "does not satisfy basic requirements for consistent treatment of player employees." Suspension vacated.

Translation: No evidence of any wrongdoing.

So Goodell hand picked Tagliabue to handle an "appeals" process. The players opposed this selection, but of course, that didn't matter. Even still, Tagliabue had no choice but to rule that Goodell was a piece of fucking shit and that the suspensions were unwarranted.

Yes, he threw the bone of "they did what Goodell accused them of, but..." solely for damage control from inevitable defamation lawsuits to come. If he truly agreed with the accusations, he wouldn't have overturned the ruling.

Notice that the news broke from the NFL's PR man in selected snippets in order to emphasize the parts that they wanted to to save face.

Lots of complaints of "contamination" of the process by the players and coaches. Like not bending over and spreading their cheeks for them? By actually standing up and saying "Wait just a fucking minute, we are being railroaded here" and lawyering up? Sorry that wasn't part of your plan, Roger.

And here is where I may lose some rational people, but I know I've lost 99% of you before the first character was typed anyway, so fuck it. This news was broken on THE FUCKING DAY after the NFL week in which the Saints were officially mathematically eliminated from the Super Bowl. All the Saints player punishments had been served. The Saints are no longer a risk of making history by being the first team to host a Super Bowl which it was hosting, despite not bowing before the almighty GOD-ell. Now that the damage was irreversibly done, let's just put this whole unwinnable PR battle thing behind us.

In that sense, the NFL got what they wanted. In that sense they "won". He got his shill to say he was right all along as he overturned his decision. Mission accomplished.
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AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #491 on: December 11, 2012, 03:06:13 PM »
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/11/former-nfl-commissioner-rescinds-player-punishments-in-bounty-case/?hpt=hp_t3

All player suspensions overturned.
Yeah, obviously it took me a while to put my thoughts down on this.

No real victory here besides vindication for the players. The season was still murdered in cold blood. Goodell got what he wanted.
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RWS

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #492 on: December 11, 2012, 03:06:59 PM »
Wow

Roger Goodell's face, meet egg. Lots of it.
Not really.  They still found that the bounty system was in place, simply got rid of the suspensions.
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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #493 on: December 11, 2012, 03:08:16 PM »
Quote
And here is where I may lose some rational people, but I know I've lost 99% of you before the first character was typed anyway, so fuck it. This news was broken on THE FUCKING DAY after the NFL week in which the Saints were officially mathematically eliminated from the Super Bowl. All the Saints player punishments had been served. The Saints are no longer a risk of making history by being the first team to host a Super Bowl which it was hosting, despite not bowing before the almighty GOD-ell. Now that the damage was irreversibly done, let's just put this whole unwinnable PR battle thing behind us.

In that sense, the NFL got what they wanted. In that sense they "won". He got his shill to say he was right all along as he overturned his decision. Mission accomplished.

I watched the Giants game on Sunday.  There were quite a few egregious penalties against the Saints.  I tried to shake off that the game was in New York, that Goodell was in attendance with some little girl with him, and that the Saints needed this win on national TV to get into the playoffs. 

But after seeing this news come out today, I feel like it was a screw job put on by the league office.  But that's the homer talking in me. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #494 on: December 11, 2012, 03:10:19 PM »
Not really.  They still found that the bounty system was in place, simply got rid of the suspensions.
And this is how the retarded majority of the country (i.e. haters) will interpret the findings.

Again, mission accomplished.
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AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #495 on: December 11, 2012, 03:20:44 PM »
Will be interesting to see if we at least get our 2nd round pick back. I doubt it. That ruling probably won't come until April 28th, when the NFL draft has concluded.
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RWS

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #496 on: December 11, 2012, 04:13:08 PM »
And this is how the retarded majority of the country (i.e. haters) will interpret the findings.

Again, mission accomplished.
I don't give a shit about the NFL, much less the Saints.  You can label me a hater all you want, but there was a bounty system in place.  Those were the findings.  I don't see how that is a retarded interpretation.

Quote
Tagliabue, however, found that three of the players engaged in conduct detrimental to the league. He said they participated in a performance pool that rewarded key plays -- including hard tackles -- that could merit fines. And he stressed that the team's coaches were very much involved.

"Unlike Saints' broad organizational misconduct, player appeals involve sharply focused issues of alleged individual player misconduct in several different aspects," a portion of the ruling released by the NFL said. "My affirmation of Commissioner Goodell's findings could certainly justify the issuance of fines. However, this entire case has been contaminated by the coaches and others in the Saints' organization."

 
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AUChizad

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #497 on: December 11, 2012, 04:21:36 PM »
I don't give a shit about the NFL, much less the Saints.  You can label me a hater all you want, but there was a bounty system in place.  Those were the findings.  I don't see how that is a retarded interpretation.
Yes. The "3rd party" Goodell hand-picked said he agrees with Goodell...unless he doesn't. And legally does not have the evidence to justify it, so he's going to overturn the ruling...even though it was right in the first place.

That's the NFL PR guy (Greg Aiello)'s spin on Goodell's shill (Tagliabue)'s spin. And you lap it up. So you believe that he had all the evidence to nail them against the fucking wall (i.e. the mythical 500 pages), but just...didn't. Just smeared egg all over the NFL's face for what reason, exactly, in your estimation?
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AUTiger1

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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #498 on: December 11, 2012, 04:28:09 PM »
Thread is tl;dr.

Saints cheated, they are the bammers of the NFL.  That is all, carry on.
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Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #499 on: December 11, 2012, 04:49:06 PM »
Thread is tl;dr.

Saints cheated, they are the bammers of the NFL.  That is all, carry on.

Can you prove it?

Looks like the NFL is having a hard time doing so. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole