What jobs?

[Townhallsavoy]

So I'm once again this morning looking at my students wondering what's the point and wondering how the education system failed them so miserably

And the special ed aide that works with me says, "You know, these kids are the factory workers of society."

Which I agree with.  Whether or not that is sad is subjective.  But it's a fact that my students - especially this year - are not going to be advancing any academics. 

The aide then told me about how Alabama - a while ago - was one of the leading producers of clothes (particularly socks) and steel.  Factories were abundant.  Kids that weren't going to be doctors or lawyers could make an honest living working on the line, which some may deem as a tough life; however, it would be a life.

So I'm wondering - what jobs?  We don't really have steel plants anymore.  Unless I'm missing something, we don't have a lot of clothing manufacturers. 

Are there any jobs out there for these type of kids besides the service industry?  I mean, if everyone becomes a mechanic, there won't be a need for mechanics.  If everyone becomes a chef, there won't be a need for restaurants. 

[RWS]

All I can do is hope that kids don't continue to buy into the mindset that somebody should have a good, high paying job waiting for them on a silver platter the second they graduate from high school/college. But don't get me started again on my rant about younger parents ruining todays children.

[GH2001]

Unions have ruined just about every single blue collar industry. If they haven't already they will.

And you can make a great living starting in that kind of job. Do a good job, exceed expectations and move up the ladder. My old man did just that. Started as a laborer in the early mid 70's and when he retired 2 years ago was over the entire workforce for the city for his company. The problem I always saw with most people who do that kind of work is, all I usually see is mediocrity. The attitude, the vision - many just don't want to do any better and are fine with being mediocre. That's why I never wanted to go into anything like that. It sounds egotistical but I thought I was better than that. My dad was the exception, but the people that are the rule are so by much of their own doing.

[Townhallsavoy]

How did unions ruin the blue collar industry?

[AUTiger1]

How did unions ruin the blue collar industry?

Really?  Go ask all those that used to work at Revere/Norandal in tiny Scottsboro, AL how the union helped them.

[Townhallsavoy]

Really?  Go ask all those that used to work at Revere/Norandal in tiny Scottsboro, AL how the union helped them.

Care to fill me in since I've never been to Scottsboro, AL? 

[CCTAU]

Care to fill me in since I've never been to Scottsboro, AL?

Have you ever worked union?

[AUTiger1]

Care to fill me in since I've never been to Scottsboro, AL?

Well, lets see.  The Union stepped in and demanded that they go from making $18-$24 plus a $1, $2 and $3 shift premium.  (Starting wage to Top Out wage) to $20-$26.  They went on strike, the plant gave up.  What they were making was damn good money for a town like Scottsboro.  Atricles in the local papers everyday with quotes from Union leaders about how bad these guys were getting shit on.  Second largest rolling plant in the US and they are only making $18-$24 hours plus shift premiums and all the OT they wanted to work.   

Fast forward one year.  They then decided that it wasn't fair that they had to pay for BCBS insurance out of their paychecks.  It was a burden for them to have to cough up $120/month for single and $180/month for family.  They demanded the plant not make them pay.  Went on strike again.  One week of the plant not making any money at all b/c no product was being produced, and they paid salary for that week and they gave up and paid all workers insurance.  Articles in the paper everyday, "It's unfair, these guys work hard, barely make enough money to make ends meet, and then they have to worry about expensive healthcare....blah, blah, blah"

Now remember, every worker was out there toting the Unions water, towing the union line.  They are getting shit on.  Sorry but $20-$26/hour in North Alabama is a good living.  No, you don't live like royalty, but you can live comfortably on that.

Fast forward another year.  The plant itself is not making as much as it once was and on top of that, there wasn't as much aluminum that was being ordered.  So what did the plant do.  Cut out overtime, quiting doing the little things like catering lunch once a month, quiting renting the pavallion at the park by the lake and having the workers a party.  Things to save money.  Workers pissed, called Union leaders.

Well, the Union demanded that not only do they bring all that back and let them have Overtime, but also demanded another pay raise for everyone.  Now they want $24-$30/hour.   The plant says fuck you, we can't do it and survive, so the Union strikes.  The plant brings in scrub workers, for two months they put out a shitty product and all of it was recalled.  They bring back the Union workers, caved into their demands and the plant was out of business within the next year.


If they hadn't been so greedy and priced themselves out of work, they would all still have jobs instead of no job and lots of them losing everything they had.

[AUTiger1]

Oh yeah, by the end, if you worked 3rd shift, you got a $5 dollar shit premium.

[Townhallsavoy]

Couldn't the workers have gotten out of the union? 

For example, (and to answer CCTAU) I was a member of AEA.  They make a lot of demands for teacher benefits and ensure tenure, so many teachers pay $50 a month to be a member.  I got out because that $50 goes to a lot of things I don't agree with including tenure and many of those benefits. 

So if the workers foresaw the business closure, couldn't they have deunionized and worked for a lower wage just to have a job?

[AUTiger1]

Couldn't the workers have gotten out of the union? 

For example, (and to answer CCTAU) I was a member of AEA.  They make a lot of demands for teacher benefits and ensure tenure, so many teachers pay $50 a month to be a member.  I got out because that $50 goes to a lot of things I don't agree with including tenure and many of those benefits. 

So if the workers foresaw the business closure, couldn't they have deunionized and worked for a lower wage just to have a job?

I don't think it's that easy.  It's a little different than teachers unions.  They get out of the union and they are either gone or made so miserable that they quit.

That was the problem and the answer to your question "How did the union ruin blue collar industry".  I guess if the majority wanted to leave they could have, but are you going to leave someone who is getting you more money, better benefits, and better working conditions?  They dangled it in their faces and they were all loyal to the union.  I had several tell me personally that if it wasn't for the union that their job would suck and they would only be making $24/hour.  Really?  Only $24/hour in a town where gas was $.98 cents a gallon and a 3 BR, brick home in a good neighborhood only cost you about $120K?  GTFO with that shit.  There are people on our contract that have 4 year degrees that barely make that much.  $50K a year in 1996-98 and you are bitching?

[GH2001]

Couldn't the workers have gotten out of the union? 

For example, (and to answer CCTAU) I was a member of AEA.  They make a lot of demands for teacher benefits and ensure tenure, so many teachers pay $50 a month to be a member.  I got out because that $50 goes to a lot of things I don't agree with including tenure and many of those benefits. 

So if the workers foresaw the business closure, couldn't they have deunionized and worked for a lower wage just to have a job?

You are in a right to work state. One of the stipulations of being in a right to work state is that you are NOT required to join a Union if you're job is a union job.

Most states are not. That is what the big fight in SC is about right now with their Governor and the NLRB. Many companies are moving their plants to these states because of this including car companies. Ever notice how foreign car makers stay in the south? They fear demanding unions.

You would shit your pants if you knew what unskilled laborers at GM plants were making with HS diplomas and GEDs, just putting lugnuts on the driverside front wheel all day long. More than the average HS teacher makes.

[CCTAU]

Today's unions are a bastardization of the hind tit theory. They do not care about the product, the company, or  any one individual. It used to be that the union head did the hiring and firing. If you weren't getting the job done, the union guy would tap you on the shoulder and send you home. Now its about squeezing the rich company. You got guys in the union who are the sorriest POS you have ever met. They come to work to do as little as possible. If you try to fire them, you have a union lawsuit. Unions have outlived their worth. They have killed two auto plants here in Atlanta and numerous paper mills throughout the south. The old timers are gone. No more do you here about 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Now it is get all I can, when I can. Many of your stronger companies just look at the union and say, "screw you". They shut the plant down and nobody wins. Do we need the threat of a union? Sure. No company should be able to exploit their workers. But we have many examples to day of STRONG non union shops that get paid well and have stable jobs due to the lack of a union always protecting the stragglers.
Yes. I grew up union, worked union, still have family that does.  But I have no love for union. I liken them to the NAACP. They exist in order to justify their existence.

[GH2001]

Today's unions are a bastardization of the hind tit theory. They do not care about the product, the company, or  any one individual. It used to be that the union head did the hiring and firing. If you weren't getting the job done, the union guy would tap you on the shoulder and send you home. Now its about squeezing the rich company. You got guys in the union who are the sorriest POS you have ever met. They come to work to do as little as possible. If you try to fire them, you have a union lawsuit. Unions have outlived their worth. They have killed two auto plants here in Atlanta and numerous paper mills throughout the south. The old timers are gone. No more do you here about 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Now it is get all I can, when I can. Many of your stronger companies just look at the union and say, "screw you". They shut the plant down and nobody wins. Do we need the threat of a union? Sure. No company should be able to exploit their workers. But we have many examples to day of STRONG non union shops that get paid well and have stable jobs due to the lack of a union always protecting the straggler.
Yes. I grew up union, worked union, still have family that does.  But I have no love for union. I liken them to the NAACP. They exist in order to justify their existence.

Labor laws exist today enough so that workers are not exploited like they were at the turn of the century. We didn't have sufficient laws at that time. We do now. Unions are no longer needed for that reason. You are right, they exist to justify their existence.

[DnATL]

Labor laws exist today enough so that workers are not exploited like they were at the turn of the century. We didn't have sufficient laws at that time. We do now. Unions are no longer needed for that reason. You are right, they exist to justify their existence.

Sani loves the Dept of Labor


And $50/month for AEA, and $2 a month for PEEHIP?  hmmm
(I understand that PEEHIP is more than two bucks now, but it is still pretty low)

I can understand and appreciate the original idea/principal/purpose of labor unions, but just like any socialist/communist system, it corrupts into unsustainable graft and rewards greed based on status instead of production.

[AWK]

Hyundai plant in Montgomery, BMW plant in Vance, etc...

There are factory jobs out there, but most are foreign companies.

Regardless, I have a good friend of mine from High School that never went to college.  He works at the Hyundai plant in Montgomery and makes a great living.  The only detriment, it's hard work and there is no job security. 

[JR4AU]

Hyundai plant in Montgomery, BMW plant in Vance, etc...

There are factory jobs out there, but most are foreign companies.

The Hyundai commercial during the Super Bowl was filmed at the Montgomery plant with the real workers.

[GarMan]

The only detriment, it's hard work and there is no job security.

Job security is just another Utopian ideal...  There's no such thing.  You have a better chance of hooking up with a unicorn.