Coaching vs. Talent, a case for both sides.

[JR4AU]

Bobby Petrino.  I think most think he's a pretty damn good coach.  And, it would seem he is.  I would also seem that he's not won anything at Ark.  Bowl trophies?  Yes.  He's steadily improved too.  Ten and Eleven wins the last two seasons, and a #5 finish this year.  BUT, he's never won the SECW, the SEC, a NC, or even a BCS bowl.  (Talk about cheating tOSU if you want, they played a football team in a BCS game and lost...the tats didn't give them special powers) 

He's 0-4 vs Saban.  He's 1-3 vs Miles, and 2-1 vs Chizik.  3-8 vs his chief rivals who also happen to have higher, much higher average recruiting classes by rankings. 

Arkansas rankings since 2005 are: 24, 27, 31, 36, 16, 49, 24, and have finished 2012 at #32.   

Then look at Richt.  I've gone on record as saying Richt is a good coach.  I'm also on record as saying, he's lost his edge it would appear.  Yeah, they made Atlanta this year, but it still had the feel of a very mediocre year.  They've not done much since their first 5 season in Athens when he was sniffing at a NC, but never could quite pull it off, though he did manage 2 SECCs, but that was so long ago.  A lifetime in the coaching profession.  So, lets compare Richt over the same period of time. 

1-3 vs Florida, 2-2 vs USCe, But he has managed to beat up on UT and AU during their times of transition of late.

Rivals Rankings since 2005: 10, 4, 9, 7, 6, 15, 5, and will finish 2012 around 11th. 

So, it really does take both talent, and coaching.  But it's clear, at least to me, you can lose with talent, but you can't win (championships) without it.  As many have said, of late, Richt has done very little with good talent.  The flip side is, Petrino has done very well with little talent, but when facing teams with decent or great coaches who are also great recruiters, he comes up short.  I see nothing on the horizon to change that either.  And that goes for Richt as well.  Wonder how long Ark. fans will be happy with double digit win seasons and nothing to show for it, or how long UGA fans will watch talented teams under-perform.

[Townhallsavoy]

Good write up. 

But it's clear, at least to me, you can lose with talent, but you can't win (championships) without it.

I agree wholeheartedly.  Which is why it really bums me out to see Auburn miss out on guys like Goldman and Darby.  BCS champs always have that spark.  That special player or two that can completely change the game. 

Auburn had Cam and Fairley in 2010.

Alabama had Richardson in 2011. 

Who will Auburn have in 2012, 2013, and 2014? 

According to the last few recruiting classes, we may need to rely on a diamond in the rough to become our next superstar. 

[Snaggletiger]

Hard to say on the talent level or who might emerge as a true impact player from our last couple of classes.  There are plenty of guys with obvious big time talent who really didn't get a chance to shine this past year, for several reasons.  Very tough for a Bray or Reed or anyone to truly show what they can do when your offensive line is like a row of subway turnstiles and you've got a whiney, no talent little bitch at QB. 

I fully acknowledge that Cam is one of if not the best college player to set foot on a field.  But, please tell me if that statement wouldn't bring a resounding  if he had to play behind this year's line...without Darvin Adams and Terrell Zachary.  You've got to have great players all over the field.  Yes, you have to coach them up as well but you also have to have the stars and moons align to win a championship.  It fell in place for AU in 2010.  Bama doesn't win this year without OSU monkey fucking a game against Iowa State.  They don't win it in 09' either if Cody left titty don't get in the way of a field goal.

[JR4AU]

Good write up. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  Which is why it really bums me out to see Auburn miss out on guys like Goldman and Darby.  BCS champs always have that spark.  That special player or two that can completely change the game. 

Auburn had Cam and Fairley in 2010.

Alabama had Richardson in 2011. 

Who will Auburn have in 2012, 2013, and 2014? 

According to the last few recruiting classes, we may need to rely on a diamond in the rough to become our next superstar.

Richardson and Ewok were not even close to "stars" on the level of Cam or Fairley.  Bammer has been doing it loaded with 4 star talent, that is well coached.  That's what we're working towards, and it's a good plan IMHO.  2010 Auburn Tigers were not devoid of talent.  The addition of Cam, and the maturing of Fairley, which I believed was accomplished through coach Rock, were what put us over the top.  If you look at what Chiz has done since 2009, we're getting there. 

[Snaggletiger]

Richardson and Ewok were not even close to "stars" on the level of Cam or Fairley.  Bammer has been doing it loaded with 4 star talent, that is well coached.  That's what we're working towards, and it's a good plan IMHO.  2010 Auburn Tigers were not devoid of talent.  The addition of Cam, and the maturing of Fairley, which I believed was accomplished through coach Rock, were what put us over the top.  If you look at what Chiz has done since 2009, we're getting there.

I think the 2010 team was actually loaded with far more talent than anyone will ever give Auburn credit for. Along with the offense, the defense had a group of VERY experienced seniors, coached by a blind monkey wearing a tu-tu.   

[Godfather]

I think the 2010 team was actually loaded with far more talent than anyone will ever give Auburn credit for. Along with the offense, the defense had a group of VERY experienced seniors, coached by a blind monkey wearing a tu-tu.

Remind me again why was he wearing the tu-tu?

[Buzz Killington]

Remind me again why was he wearing the tu-tu?

Duh...the Aquaman costume was already taken.

[AWK]

Remind me again why was he wearing the tu-tu?

Because it was like watching a monkey trying fuck a coconut.

[Godfather]

[JR4AU]

I think the 2010 team was actually loaded with far more talent than anyone will ever give Auburn credit for. Along with the offense, the defense had a group of VERY experienced seniors, coached by a blind monkey wearing a tu-tu.

Even without Cam, the offensive side of the ball was loaded with talent.  The shortcoming would have been QB.  That offense could have been VERY effective with even a guy like Todd, but not effective enough to overcome the shortcomings of the defense. 

[Godfather]

Even without Cam, the offensive side of the ball was loaded with talent.  The shortcoming would have been QB.  That offense could have been VERY effective with even a guy like Todd, but not effective enough to overcome the shortcomings of the defense.

Agree and it was essentially the same team the year before.

In fact I could probably make the argument that it might have been better.  Even though Dyer had a good year he wasn't a Ben Tate.

[Godfather]

Good write up. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  Which is why it really bums me out to see Auburn miss out on guys like Goldman and Darby.  BCS champs always have that spark.  That special player or two that can completely change the game.

Auburn had Cam and Fairley in 2010.

Alabama had Richardson in 2011. 

Who will Auburn have in 2012, 2013, and 2014? 

According to the last few recruiting classes, we may need to rely on a diamond in the rough to become our next superstar.

Yeah but Fairley wasn't Fairley until 2010 and summer of 2010 I don't recall anyone saying watch out for Nick Fairley he's gonna be a game changer.  Sparks can develop.

[JR4AU]

Agree and it was essentially the same team the year before.

Close, yes, but I think Dyer would have made a huge difference for Todd.  And though the defense was mediocre, it was much better than the one Todd had, and I think Todd could have won 10 or 11 games in 2010 with Dyer and Fairley as the stars.   

[Godfather]

Close, yes, but I think Dyer would have made a huge difference for Todd.  And though the defense was mediocre, it was much better than the one Todd had, and I think Todd could have won 10 or 11 games in 2010 with Dyer and Fairley as the stars.   

I don't think he would have won quite that many, but I could be wrong.  Sorry I take Ben Tate over Mike Dyer...just sayin

[JR4AU]

I don't think he would have won quite that many, but I could be wrong.  Sorry I take Ben Tate over Mike Dyer...just sayin

Can't disagree on Dyer vs Tate, but I'm talking (speculating) 2010 AU, with Dyer, and 2010 Fairley.  If we'd have had the 2010 defense in 2009, we'd probably have beaten UGA and Bammer.  Again, just speculating though.  No way to know. 

[Godfather]

Can't disagree on Dyer vs Tate, but I'm talking (speculating) 2010 AU, with Dyer, and 2010 Fairley.  If we'd have had the 2010 defense in 2009, we'd probably have beaten UGA and Bammer.  Again, just speculating though.  No way to know. 

Obviously not...but you bring up an interesting thought.  I have been searching through the stats, and we had essentially the same players.  So a year of development for some ...see Nick Fairley and the addition of the superstar...see Cam Newton.  So the sky may not be falling?

Anyway you slice it though Cam Newton was the difference...IMHO.

Put 2010 Cam on the 2009 team and we are in the hunt.

[Godfather]

I can also make an argument that the 2010 defense was better because the 2010 offense was vastly improved and kept the defense off the field.  Lets be realistic the total defense for that team showed up twice.  Against bama and against the Ducks. 

2009 with Cam we beat UK, UGA and bama.  LSU and Ark were wider gap losses but all things being equal I say we win.

Boom 2009 Championship...I'm claiming it.

[Snaggletiger]

Fun to speculate.  Here's what I saw in 2010 and what I've heard from a couple of high school coaches about that defense...and a prime example of that was the Iron Bowl.  That defense was dominated by seniors who had been through the wars. Yes, Fairley was a huge disruptive force, but how many times did we hear the coaches say the kids never panicked, no matter what the situation, no matter how far behind they were.  That comes from leadership and when you think of Coleman, Bynes, Clayton, Stevens etc. these were all guys that had been tested on the biggest stages.

I had two different high school coaches tell me Auburn made no rea l"adjustments" to speak of in the Iron Bowl.  They just said, "Enough is enough....time to line up and blow that fucker up that's in front of me."  That's senior leadership.  Plus, having the knowledge that if you do start taking care of business, you have an offense that WILL get the job done, makes it that much easier to let it all go.

GF, I would argue that in 2010, the only complete defensive games were MSU (The fuckity fuck game), LSU..best effort I've seen in a while...and Oregon.  I don't count Bama because the D got gutted horribly early on.