Why Are Obama's Critics So Dumb?

[Snaggletiger]

Bin Laden went into hiding, presumably tucked way back in the mountains of Afghanistan and other places.  All indications are, he stayed on the run and obviously had an entire network of people helping him hide out.  I don't imagine anyone under Bush or Obama ever stopped looking for him.  He finally ran out of hiding places or came across someone not so loyal to him that was willing to tip off the U.S. as to his whereabouts.  They found him, the options were laid out before the President and he decided on the best one...take the bastard out.  Had they found him under President Bush, I have no doubts he would have chosen the option of taking the bastard out too.  This not a coup for Obama and he did nothing special to track the pig down.  He simply said yes to the greatest fighting unit in the world.  That's what President Obama should be applauded for.  Making the right decision. 

[AUChizad]

Bin Laden went into hiding, presumably tucked way back in the mountains of Afghanistan and other places.  All indications are, he stayed on the run and obviously had an entire network of people helping him hide out.  I don't imagine anyone under Bush or Obama ever stopped looking for him.  He finally ran out of hiding places or came across someone not so loyal to him that was willing to tip off the U.S. as to his whereabouts.  They found him, the options were laid out before the President and he decided on the best one...take the bastard out.  Had they found him under President Bush, I have no doubts he would have chosen the option of taking the bastard out too.  This not a coup for Obama and he did nothing special to track the pig down.  He simply said yes to the greatest fighting unit in the world.  That's what President Obama should be applauded for.  Making the right decision.

In the very least, recognize this.

If he was the "terrorist sympathist" that people, even in this thread, are painting him as, he would not have "made the right decision".

I'm not sitting here trying to say that he was in one of the helicopters or he designed the strategy himself. I'm saying he ordered it. He also did instruct the CIA to reshift focus to killing (not capturing) Bin Laden as priority number one. This is not something that Andrew Sullivan just made up.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029219.php

PLENTY OF CREDIT TO GO AROUND, STARTING AT THE TOP.... The amount of work that went into tracking down and killing Osama bin Laden is pretty extraordinary. It took years, and involved military, law enforcement, and intelligence agency officials, most of whom we'll never know and won't be able to thank.

And while many patriots made this happen, it's President Obama who'll get much of the credit -- and given the circumstances, he'll deserve it. Slate's John Dickerson had a good piece overnight on how Obama's "focused, hands-on pursuit of Osama Bin Laden paid off."

    At approximately 11:30 p.m. Sunday, President Obama announced to the nation that on his orders U.S forces had killed Osama Bin Laden. His reputation for lawyerly inaction may never recover.

    Obama's critics have said that he is a weak leader in general and in particular does not understand what must be done to combat terrorism. "They are very much giving up that center of attention and focus that's required," said former Vice President Dick Cheney in March 2009, in a typical remark. Yet what emerges from the details of Bin Laden's killing (offered, like the heroic accounts of the Bush years, entirely by officials who work for the sitting president) is that from early in his administration Obama was focused on killing Osama Bin Laden and that he was involved in the process throughout.

    In June 2009, Obama directed his CIA director to "provide me within 30 days a detailed operation plan for locating and bringing to justice" Osama Bin Laden. By August 2010 intelligence officials had identified the suspicious compound where Osama lived.

Dickerson's description of the president's efforts as "hands-on" seems especially apt given what we know. It was Obama who instructed the CIA to make targeting bin Laden a top priority, breaking with his predecessor. It was Obama who oversaw five national security meetings to oversee plans for this operation. It was Obama who chose this mission, made final preparations, and gave the order.

There's a difference between talking tough and being tough, just as there's a difference between chest-thumping rhetoric and getting the job done.

[AUChizad]

I am a critic of Obama, I guess I am dumb too.

Obviously, the title of the article is intended to get a rile out of people.

And just for clarity, it's not my title.

Obviously, being critical of the President's policies is perfectly reasonable. I myself am critical of many of them, if we're using the term loosely.

Choosing your own reality to support a bias is what I have a problem with.

[GH2001]

I think they are all full of shit.

But this:

is bullshit...  and Rah Rah fluff.  He had about as much to do with that as I did. 

We just need someone who will stop spending money and handle the fucking deficit problem before our Treasury Bonds/Yields end up like Greece.

AWK gets it.

In the end, this is all that really matters. But then again, most that support this guy don't remotely understand economics and how our debt really works. We will be Greece X 10 if this keeps up.

FWIW - on the little chart GarMan posted, what I think gets lost is their is a 4 year portion that shows a surplus. Yes, that was a Gingrich/Clinton collaboration. Economically, Newt knows what he is doing - love him or hate him personally. The track record of economic success is there.

[AUTiger1]

AWK gets it.

In the end, this is all that really matters. But then again, most that support this guy don't remotely understand economics and how our debt really works. We will be Greece X 10 if this keeps up.

FWIW - on the little chart GarMan posted, what I think gets lost is their is a 4 year portion that shows a surplus. Yes, that was a Gingrich/Clinton collaboration. Economically, Newt knows what he is doing - love him or hate him personally. The track record of economic success is there.

Newt and Trent Lott forced Slick Willies hand in a lot of things he didn't want to get that accomplished.   

Obviously, the title of the article is intended to get a rile out of people.

And just for clarity, it's not my title.

Obviously, being critical of the President's policies is perfectly reasonable. I myself am critical of many of them, if we're using the term loosely.

Choosing your own reality to support a bias is what I have a problem with.

I am not riled with the article.  I just think it's a joke.  Nothing more or nothing less.  I promise you I won't lose sleep over it.

In the very least, recognize this.

If he was the "terrorist sympathist" that people, even in this thread, are painting him as, he would not have "made the right decision".

I'm not sitting here trying to say that he was in one of the helicopters or he designed the strategy himself. I'm saying he ordered it. He also did instruct the CIA to reshift focus to killing (not capturing) Bin Laden as priority number one. This is not something that Andrew Sullivan just made up.

I'm not sitting here saying that he didn't have something to do with it, as in giving the order to the plan he felt was the best according to the intel that he was given.  What I am sitting here saying is this: To say Bush "ignored" Bin Laden is bullshit.   Look, I hate Bush with a passion.  The wrong Bush ran for President in 2000.  It should have been Jeb and I will forever be pissed b/c W ruined his chances.  He was fucking horrible.  He spent way too much money, and never used his veto stamp the way he should have.  Not to mention NCLB bullshit he pushed through.........anywho......I will call bullshit and defend him when someone says something as ignorant as that. 

Do you really believe that Bush just said "Ah, Fuck it, No sense in going after Bin Laden, let the next guy take care of it." and Obama just came in and made it all possible? 

[GH2001]

Obviously, the title of the article is intended to get a rile out of people.

And just for clarity, it's not my title.

Obviously, being critical of the President's policies is perfectly reasonable. I myself am critical of many of them, if we're using the term loosely.

Choosing your own reality to support a bias is what I have a problem with.

How is AUT1 choosing his own reality if his complaints are backed with facts? Its his opinion. He doesn't like the state of the country. I don't blame him. The country is in the shitter right now. THAT is reality.

[GH2001]

Newt and Trent Lott forced Slick Willies hand in a lot of things he didn't want to get that accomplished.   

He knew/knows a lot of dirt on people in DC. Enough that he was able to get things done (some call it blackmail) and thus eventually bring about ethics charges because of it. Dick Morris has went on record saying that Bill's best decision was to have sense enough to go to the middle. He rode with Newt and Trent to the contract with america and the rest is history. 94-2000 were good times.

[AUChizad]

Do you really believe that Bush just said "Ah, Fuck it, No sense in going after Bin Laden, let the next guy take care of it." and Obama just came in and made it all possible?

He shifted focus away making taking out Osama Bin Laden objective #1 in the war. He shifted his focus away from the orchestrators of 9/11 and towards Iraq.

Don't take my word for it, ask Bush himself. I don't know what else to say but watch the video.



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/remarks-president-osama-bin-laden

And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network.
 
Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden.  It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground.  I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan.  And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.

I remember when he gave this address, many here were bitching about his use of the word "I". It's because he did that shit. Unless you truly believe he just made all that shit up, and flat-out lied in an address. Like no one who actually knows shit about the goings-on in the CIA wouldn't call him on it. If you believe that those statements from him are a fabrication, then you fall into the category the article in the OP was directed towards.

[AUChizad]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/06/eveningnews/main5367545.shtml

Then came what many here see as the gravest error of all: Afghans were wary as the U.S. turned its attention to invading Iraq - and they were right. Everything from reconstruction and aid to the fight itself suffered as the U.S. shifted its resources and its focus away from Afghanistan and the commitment it had made to the Afghan people.

Also, Bush failed to "make the right decision" in 2002.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A62618-2002Apr16&notFound=true

The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.

[Vandy Vol]

FWIW - on the little chart GarMan posted, what I think gets lost is their is a 4 year portion that shows a surplus.

Charts.  How them shits work?














DISCLAIMER:  The charts posted above aren't meant to prove or disprove any particular point.  In fact, you'll notice that some of them favor Obama, while others don't.  They are simply meant to show that charts will differ based upon a variety of factors, including how data is grouped, who specific data is attributed to, where the data was obtained from, etc.

[AUTiger1]

He shifted focus away making taking out Osama Bin Laden objective #1 in the war. He shifted his focus away from the orchestrators of 9/11 and towards Iraq.

Don't take my word for it, ask Bush himself. I don't know what else to say but watch the video.



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/remarks-president-osama-bin-laden
I remember when he gave this address, many here were bitching about his use of the word "I". It's because he did that shit. Unless you truly believe he just made all that shit up, and flat-out lied in an address. Like no one who actually knows shit about the goings-on in the CIA wouldn't call him on it. If you believe that those statements from him are a fabrication, then you fall into the category the article in the OP was directed towards.

Goddamn.  I didn't say that Obama didn't have anything to do with it.  I am giving him credit for what he did, but he didn't do it all himself.  Who laid the groundwork?  Who was president when that groundwork was laid?

Also, shifting attention is not the same as ignoring.  To ignore something means you fail to consider it, or you simply disregard something.  Bush did not just simply forget about Bin Laden.  There was shit tons of intelligence work that was being done in Afghanistan and Pakistan while the war in Iraq was being fought.  Now, the shit getting rocky in Iraq did make him shift his focus, but to claim that he just flat out ignored Bin Laden and it was all Obama is bullshit and you know it. You bitch about "us'' "Choosing your own reality to support a bias" and you don't think the author of the article isn't doing the same with a statement like that.  His intentions with that line was to make people believe that Bush just "Fuck it, I don't care about no Bin Laden".  Oh, and  for making me defend Bush.

Once again I will ask:  Do you really believe that Bush just said "Ah, Fuck it, No sense in going after Bin Laden, let the next guy take care of it." and Obama just came in and made it all possible?   Knowing that there were troops on the ground in both Afghanistan and Pakistan and intelligence gathering going on you still believe that?

[AUTiger1]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/06/eveningnews/main5367545.shtml
 


Also, Bush failed to "make the right decision" in 2002.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A62618-2002Apr16&notFound=true

Amazing how in April of 2002 a full one year before we went into Iraq Bush had already said "Fuck it, ignore his ass, I am more interested in other things, oh look at butterfly" and ignored Bin Laden isn't it?   

[Godfather]

 

[AWK]

I posted a video of him flat-out saying it.

And he sure didn't take him out in the eight years we were at war in Afghanistan while he was President.
Yeah there are.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june11/panetta_05-03.html

It's called press talk, fluff, coach speak.  I'm sure had Bush had the chance to kill Osama, he would have said no...  I love how you base an entire argument on a press conference from 2002. 

Regardless, saying that Bush didn't take him out in his eight years and therefore does not deserve credit is just wrong.  I'm sure it was no easy task of tracking him down.  Plus, he laid a lot of the ground work to finally find and kill him, as was stated by Obama.  I'm sure Obama worked at it too, and gave the "order", but anyone could have given the order.  That is the very end of the process.  FDR did not live until the end of WWII, therefore, the victory and all credit goes to Truman.  Truman ordered the dropping of the atomic bombs.  Same logic.   

Granted, I did not agree with a lot of things Bush did as President, I can look at this objectively.  That part of the article was a rah rah piece. Republicans do it too. 

Enjoy this one:

http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/osama-bin-laden-shooting-obama-takes-the-plaudits-did-panetta-take-the-decision/

or

http://patdollard.com/2011/05/obama-hesitated-%E2%80%93-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/

[Vandy Vol]

Enjoy this one:

http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/osama-bin-laden-shooting-obama-takes-the-plaudits-did-panetta-take-the-decision/

This was pointed out when Wench posted this information awhile back, but I'll bring it up again.

The "article" to which this story refers was actually a blog written by a guy with the posting name of "Ulsterman."  A quick search of his previous blogs includes a variety of Obama bashing pieces, including a blog entry which claims that (then Senator) Obama banged a dude in a public restroom, got caught doing so by an intern, and then said intern disappeared after Obama supposedly had him assassinated.

Did Ulsterman speak to an insider?  I don't know.  Was Obama hesitant?  I don't know.  Did Panetta actually call the shots?  I don't know; Panetta has publicly stated otherwise, but maybe it's a cover-up and Panetta was forced to publicly lie.  All I'm saying is be wary of the source of this so-called "article" with "insider" information.

or

http://patdollard.com/2011/05/obama-hesitated-%E2%80%93-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/

This article uses the same wording from the insider that Ulsterman provided, so I'm assuming Ulsterman was also the source of this information.  Again, not saying it did or didn't happen; just saying that the ultimate source appears to be relatively not credible.

Or maybe Obama really is a faggot assassin.  Who knows...

[AWK]

This was pointed out when Wench posted this information awhile back, but I'll bring it up again.

The "article" to which this story refers was actually a blog written by a guy with the posting name of "Ulsterman."  A quick search of his previous blogs includes a variety of Obama bashing pieces, including a blog entry which claims that (then Senator) Obama banged a dude in a public restroom, got caught doing so by an intern, and then said intern disappeared after Obama supposedly had him assassinated.

Did Ulsterman speak to an insider?  I don't know.  Was Obama hesitant?  I don't know.  Did Panetta actually call the shots?  I don't know; Panetta has publicly stated otherwise, but maybe it's a cover-up and Panetta was forced to publicly lie.  All I'm saying is be wary of the source of this so-called "article" with "insider" information.

This article uses the same wording from the insider that Ulsterman provided, so I'm assuming Ulsterman was also the source of this information.  Again, not saying it did or didn't happen; just saying that the ultimate source appears to be relatively not credible.

Or maybe Obama really is a faggot assassin.  Who knows...

Yeah, I know.  Those articles were made half in jest towards Chizad.  Hell, they are probably full of shit.  Still, giving Obama all the credit is dumb.

Regardless, this is the what I talked about earlier that worries me and I want handled ASAP...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/24/markets/thebuzz/index.htm

[AUChizad]

It's called press talk, fluff, coach speak.  I'm sure had Bush had the chance to kill Osama, he would have said no...  I love how you base an entire argument on a press conference from 2002. 

Regardless, saying that Bush didn't take him out in his eight years and therefore does not deserve credit is just wrong.  I'm sure it was no easy task of tracking him down.  Plus, he laid a lot of the ground work to finally find and kill him, as was stated by Obama.  I'm sure Obama worked at it too, and gave the "order", but anyone could have given the order.  That is the very end of the process.  FDR did not live until the end of WWII, therefore, the victory and all credit goes to Truman.  Truman ordered the dropping of the atomic bombs.  Same logic.   

Granted, I did not agree with a lot of things Bush did as President, I can look at this objectively.  That part of the article was a rah rah piece. Republicans do it too.

So let me get this straight: Obama "had about as much to do with (taking out Bin Laden) as (you) did."

People in this thread, including yourself, go on to argue that he wasn't the military mind that devised the plan, nor was he there to actually carry it out, which of course is ridiculous and never once did I imply that he did.

Obama finishes the job that Bush never did, for whatever reason, and Bush is suddenly the military genius that devised the whole thing? Are you serious, Clark?

Also, it is argued that "Bush would have done the same thing, given the chance"

I provide a link from the Washington Post (let me guess, they're a librul shill that doesn't speak the truth like Ulsterman.blogspot.com.  ) that states that CIA and military officials with first hand knowledge claimed they fucked up in Tora Bora.

I think you're playing semantics if you take the authors use of the phrase "Bush's policy of ignoring Bin Laden" as absolutely literal. You're splitting hairs trying to make the author's position that Bush would have just turned around and walked the other way if he had him in his crosshairs, which of course is absurd. Shifting focus, away from Bin Laden (and towards Iraq) is clearly what he meant.

[AWK]

So let me get this straight: Obama "had about as much to do with (taking out Bin Laden) as (you) did."

People in this thread, including yourself, go on to argue that he wasn't the military mind that devised the plan, nor was he there to actually carry it out, which of course is ridiculous and never once did I imply that he did.

Obama finishes the job that Bush never did, for whatever reason, and Bush is suddenly the military genius that devised the whole thing? Are you serious, Clark?

Did Bush send troops into Afghanistan?  Were troops fighting the Taliban?  Who was the leader of the Taliban?  Did they chase Osama out of Afghanistan?  Did they kill leaders of the Taliban?  Did they happen onto any intel while fighting?  Never said he was a mastermind, but he had at least as much to do with finding and killing Osama as Obama. 

You ignore this:  FDR did not live until the end of WWII, therefore, the victory and all credit goes to Truman.  Truman ordered the dropping of the atomic bombs.  Same logic.   

The article does not give credit where credit is due, and that is rah rah bullshit. 

Also, it is argued that "Bush would have done the same thing, given the chance"

I provide a link from the Washington Post (let me guess, they're a librul shill that doesn't speak the truth like Ulsterman.blogspot.com.  ) that states that CIA and military officials with first hand knowledge claimed they fucked up in Tora Bora.

I think you're playing semantics if you take the authors use of the phrase "Bush's policy of ignoring Bin Laden" as absolutely literal. You're splitting hairs trying to make the author's position that Bush would have just turned around and walked the other way if he had him in his crosshairs, which of course is absurd. Shifting focus, away from Bin Laden (and towards Iraq) is clearly what he meant.

You can't argue either way, because we don't know what he would have done nor if he ever had the unequivocal chance.  I personally doubt someone would just say "No.", though

[AUChizad]

Did Bush send troops into Afghanistan?  Were troops fighting the Taliban?  Who was the leader of the Taliban?  Did they chase Osama out of Afghanistan?  Did they kill leaders of the Taliban?  Did they happen onto any intel while fighting?  Never said he was a mastermind, but he had at least as much to do with finding and killing Osama as Obama. 

You ignore this:  FDR did not live until the end of WWII, therefore, the victory and all credit goes to Truman.  Truman ordered the dropping of the atomic bombs.  Same logic.   

The article does not give credit where credit is due, and that is rah rah bullshit. 


You can't argue either way, because we don't know what he would have done nor if he ever had the unequivocal chance.  I personally doubt someone would just say "No.", though

Still missing the point.

I. Am. Not. Saying. Bush. Would. Have. Let. Bin. Laden. Loose. If. He. Was. Given. The Chance.

I don't believe Sullivan was, either. You're all right, that would be an absurd claim. To say that any single US citizen who is NOT a member of Al-Qaeda wouldn't put a bullet in his head, given the chance, is absurd. It's also not the argument.

I'm saying Bush did fail militarily when he had the opportunity to take him out. As cited. So yeah, you can say that Obama was successful where Bush failed in finding and killing Bin Laden. You can say he shifted military focus back to finding and killing Bin Laden.

The whole reason this is even mentioned in the article, and hence why we're discussing it now is because so many on the right fail to recognize it as an accomplishment at all. Bush did all the work, Obama just was in the right place at the right time. And even to acknowledge that he did order Operation Neptune Spear is a contradiction to the rhetoric that he's a pacifist with no balls who secretly wants to destroy America from within, because he's a jihadist himself. That's the kind of barking lunacy the article is disputing.

[AWK]

Still missing the point.

I. Am. Not. Saying. Bush. Would. Have. Let. Bin. Laden. Loose. If. He. Was. Given. The Chance.

I don't believe Sullivan was, either. You're all right, that would be an absurd claim. To say that any single US citizen who is NOT a member of Al-Qaeda wouldn't put a bullet in his head, given the chance, is absurd. It's also not the argument.

I'm saying Bush did fail militarily when he had the opportunity to take him out. As cited. So yeah, you can say that Obama was successful where Bush failed in finding and killing Bin Laden. You can say he shifted military focus back to finding and killing Bin Laden.

The whole reason this is even mentioned in the article, and hence why we're discussing it now is because so many on the right fail to recognize it as an accomplishment at all. Bush did all the work, Obama just was in the right place at the right time. And even to acknowledge that he did order Operation Neptune Spear is a contradiction to the rhetoric that he's a pacifist with no balls who secretly wants to destroy America from within, because he's a jihadist himself. That's the kind of barking lunacy the article is disputing.

Why do you hate America? 

I kid.  What I said in reference to Bush killing him or letting him loose was this...

You can't argue either way, because we don't know what he would have done nor if he ever had the unequivocal chance.  I personally doubt someone would just say "No.", though
Modify message

Like I said, I agree with you in that I think Obama deserves credit... but so does Bush.  Not all one or the other.