Dissappointed

[Snaggletiger]

I'm not so quick to downplay the rating system other than to say I do believe there can definitely be some bias with certain teams and players.  I think if you consistently get highly rated players, you will put yourself in the position to win championships.  You cannot and will not do it without them.  That being said, I'll agree with one thing from above.  It does come down to coaching.  And I think the UGA/MSU analogy above is a prime example.  I honestly don't know and don't care what Meatchicken State's recruiting rankings are, but I know they get good enough talent to compete in the Big 127 and on a top 20 basis.  But on the other side, as we all know, Richt has been pulling in top classes since he's been there.  Whether it's an X's and O's thing or a motivation thing...he sucks in some particular area. 

With the 85 scholarships and overall parity in college football, things will always be somewhat cyclical. But, if your classes are continually made up of 4*-5* guys, you will continually be at the top of the pile with a few Richt type exceptions.  It just takes coaching to make it all come together.   

[JR4AU]

Yes and no.  There are always exceptions to this rule on both sides.

5 stars that are horrible and nobody's that turn out to be great.  That is why I said I think it is bullshit.

IMHO, the 5 stars that bust, do so most often due to attitude, not over estimated talent.  The 2 or 3 star kids, that turn out to be stars?  Combination of several things.  Some is lack of HS coaching, but more often it is being late to mature physically, and then coaching.   There's a reason all the coaches are clamoring for the 4 and 5 star players.  If you could rely on coaching skills to simply create a player, wouldn't it make the recruiting process much easier seek out the kids 2 and 3 star kids that would give their left nut to play at a big time program, and just "coach 'em up"? 

As I said before, it's a subjective system, and the coaches evaluate on the things they can measure at the time they evaluate.  Kids do sometimes bloom late, and some kids do have shitty attitudes, and on both ends, some are simply miss evaluated, but I think they're in the minority by a long shot.

[ssgaufan]

Go ahead, wallow in your sorry that the bammers try to create, or say fuck em, and enjoy what's really going on.  Auburn football is winning, we're not on probation, we're recruiting well, it's all good.  It's not without bumps along the way, but nobody's program is.  Ours bumps are just magnified by the local media, while bammes are swept under the rug or simply ignored.   

I agree with what you're saying, an I'm not wallowing in my own sorrows (I have enough real life problems to wallow in), I guess I was just expecting to keep riding that NC wave through this year in recruiting. 

[Godfather]

IMHO, the 5 stars that bust, do so most often due to attitude, not over estimated talent.  The 2 or 3 star kids, that turn out to be stars?  Combination of several things.  Some is lack of HS coaching, but more often it is being late to mature physically, and then coaching.   There's a reason all the coaches are clamoring for the 4 and 5 star players.  If you could rely on coaching skills to simply create a player, wouldn't it make the recruiting process much easier seek out the kids 2 and 3 star kids that would give their left nut to play at a big time program, and just "coach 'em up"? 

As I said before, it's a subjective system, and the coaches evaluate on the things they can measure at the time they evaluate.  Kids do sometimes bloom late, and some kids do have shitty attitudes, and on both ends, some are simply miss evaluated, but I think they're in the minority by a long shot.

No... I agree with you and Snaggle.

I guess one of my biggest points is what truly differentiates a 4 star from a 5 star or 3 star for that matter?  Yes, of course you need to get the good athletes to be a good team and yes the good athletes are going to be higher ranked.  But is their significant difference between the #1 rated class and say the #20 rated class?

Coaches still recruited prior to Gore's invention of teh ebays, how did they do it back then.  Again my point is too much emphasis is placed on what class you signed.

[JR4AU]

I agree with what you're saying, an I'm not wallowing in my own sorrows (I have enough real life problems to wallow in), I guess I was just expecting to keep riding that NC wave through this year in recruiting.

At least wait until NSD to make that determination, huh?

[Vandy Vol]

Don't get me wrong...all of the negative press has probably affected recruiting, and has probably done so to a significant degree.  But don't blame it all on everyone else and forget about the team's shortcomings this season.

At the beginning of the season, it was predicted by pretty much everyone that this season was going to be shaky at best.  You returned only seven starters, ranking Auburn 120th out of 120 schools.

Build up Utah State however you want, but the majority of the nation didn't look upon that close win favorably, especially as the season opener.  For some wishy-washy recruits, it may have deterred them from Auburn early in the season, or at least cast doubts in their minds.

Blame the shitty defense on Roof, and try your best to explain to everyone that you've got talent and that the defense will be better once a new DC is in, but from non-Auburn fans across the nation who could give a shit who your DC is and what he's doing, the defense looked poor, ending the regular season at 78th in the nation for overall defense, and 99th in the nation for run defense.

Despite having top recruiting classes for years, the QB situation was (and still is) horrendous.  The offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.

Last, but not least, history has shown that steep drop-offs in win-loss records for defending national champs are rare.  Finishing 8-5 is not bad, but only one other defending national champion since 1992 has followed up with that record.

I completely agree that the negative press has played a significant part; all I'm adding is that you shouldn't overlook other negative aspects of the season which have had nothing to do with outside influences.  Some blame has to be given to the generally shitty season coupled with the departure of coaches.

[ssgaufan]

Don't get me wrong...all of the negative press has probably affected recruiting, and has probably done so to a significant degree.  But don't blame it all on everyone else and forget about the team's shortcomings this season.

At the beginning of the season, it was predicted by pretty much everyone that this season was going to be shaky at best.  You returned only seven starters, ranking Auburn 120th out of 120 schools.

Build up Utah State however you want, but the majority of the nation didn't look upon that close win favorably, especially as the season opener.  For some wishy-washy recruits, it may have deterred them from Auburn early in the season, or at least cast doubts in their minds.

Blame the shitty defense on Roof, and try your best to explain to everyone that you've got talent and that the defense will be better once a new DC is in, but from non-Auburn fans across the nation who could give a shit who your DC is and what he's doing, the defense looked poor, ending the regular season at 78th in the nation for overall defense, and 99th in the nation for run defense.

Despite having top recruiting classes for years, the QB situation was (and still is) horrendous.  The offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.

Last, but not least, history has shown that steep drop-offs in win-loss records for defending national champs are rare.  Finishing 8-5 is not bad, but only one other defending national champion since 1992 has followed up with that record.

I completely agree that the negative press has played a significant part; all I'm adding is that you shouldn't overlook other negative aspects of the season which have had nothing to do with outside influences.  Some blame has to be given to the generally shitty season coupled with the departure of coaches.

How did LSU do in their next couple of years after that 5 loss season?

And just who the fuck do you think you are to come on here and talk to us about shitty seasons?

[Snaggletiger]

Don't get me wrong...all of the negative press has probably affected recruiting, and has probably done so to a significant degree.  But don't blame it all on everyone else and forget about the team's shortcomings this season.

At the beginning of the season, it was predicted by pretty much everyone that this season was going to be shaky at best.  You returned only seven starters, ranking Auburn 120th out of 120 schools.

Build up Utah State however you want, but the majority of the nation didn't look upon that close win favorably, especially as the season opener.  For some wishy-washy recruits, it may have deterred them from Auburn early in the season, or at least cast doubts in their minds.

Blame the shitty defense on Roof, and try your best to explain to everyone that you've got talent and that the defense will be better once a new DC is in, but from non-Auburn fans across the nation who could give a shit who your DC is and what he's doing, the defense looked poor, ending the regular season at 78th in the nation for overall defense, and 99th in the nation for run defense.

Despite having top recruiting classes for years, the QB situation was (and still is) horrendous.  The offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.

Last, but not least, history has shown that steep drop-offs in win-loss records for defending national champs are rare.  Finishing 8-5 is not bad, but only one other defending national champion since 1992 has followed up with that record.

I completely agree that the negative press has played a significant part; all I'm adding is that you shouldn't overlook other negative aspects of the season which have had nothing to do with outside influences.  Some blame has to be given to the generally shitty season coupled with the departure of coaches.

Oh yeah?  Well you just shut up, then.

[Buzz Killington]

Build up Utah State however you want, but the majority of the nation didn't look upon that close win favorably, especially as the season opener.  For some wishy-washy recruits, it may have deterred them from Auburn early in the season, or at least cast doubts in their minds.

It was those fucking Samoans. 

[JR4AU]

No... I agree with you and Snaggle.

I guess one of my biggest points is what truly differentiates a 4 star from a 5 star or 3 star for that matter?  Yes, of course you need to get the good athletes to be a player and yes the good athletes are going to be higher ranked.  But is their significant difference between the #1 rated class and say the #20 rated class?

Coaches still recruited prior to the invention of the internet, how did they do it back then.  Again my point is too much emphasis is placed on what class you signed.

Yes, there is, IMHO.  But, like the individual player that either matures late, or has a poor attitude, some classes over achieve, some underachieve.  But at the time of the ranking, with all they have to measure, the top recruiting classes have the most potential.  Some have cited programs like UGA, FSU, etc that they believe have underperformed while recruiting top 5 classes.  It would appear that at times they have underperformed.  I thought maybe Richt was burned out, but he seems to have made a comeback, at least a little.  FSU?  Well, we all know that Bowden was allowing the program to flounder.  Jimbo has only been at it as the actual head guy for 2 seasons.  He may be dealing with some poor attitudes left over from the Bowden days, just as Saybinz did post Shula.  If he's stil 8-5 after 4 years, then I think you can rightly question his ability to be a HC.  Slightly different situation at Florida, but somewhat the same.  Meyer coasted his last year.  They also have a QB that hasn't panned out, and had no real RB to run the system they were wanting to run, then had injuries on top of that.  Give Coach Boom to year 4 to make an evaluation.   

You're far, FAR more likely to find underachieving classes than a  steady stream of #20 classes that wins an SECC, and a NC.  Though Auburn had two classes ranked around #20 on the NC team, the 2007 and 2010 classes carried the team, and were top 5 and top 7 classes.  What we saw in 2011 was the result of two #20 classes, depleted at that, combined with young talent. 

Again, though, I think we're saying pretty much the same thing, but yeah, I believe the rankings are pretty accurate at predicting future performance. 

[AWK]

Don't get me wrong...all of the negative press has probably affected recruiting, and has probably done so to a significant degree.  But don't blame it all on everyone else and forget about the team's shortcomings this season.

At the beginning of the season, it was predicted by pretty much everyone that this season was going to be shaky at best.  You returned only seven starters, ranking Auburn 120th out of 120 schools.

Build up Utah State however you want, but the majority of the nation didn't look upon that close win favorably, especially as the season opener.  For some wishy-washy recruits, it may have deterred them from Auburn early in the season, or at least cast doubts in their minds.

Blame the shitty defense on Roof, and try your best to explain to everyone that you've got talent and that the defense will be better once a new DC is in, but from non-Auburn fans across the nation who could give a shit who your DC is and what he's doing, the defense looked poor, ending the regular season at 78th in the nation for overall defense, and 99th in the nation for run defense.

Despite having top recruiting classes for years, the QB situation was (and still is) horrendous.  The offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.

Last, but not least, history has shown that steep drop-offs in win-loss records for defending national champs are rare.  Finishing 8-5 is not bad, but only one other defending national champion since 1992 has followed up with that record.

I completely agree that the negative press has played a significant part; all I'm adding is that you shouldn't overlook other negative aspects of the season which have had nothing to do with outside influences.  Some blame has to be given to the generally shitty season coupled with the departure of coaches.

That makes no sense. You act like our blaming the defensive coordinator for having a shitty defense is ludicrous.   Then, you insinuate it's bad because we have no talent.  Talent is why we play shitty schemes?  Talent is why we can't tackle?  Talent is why we can't adjust when an offense is targeting an open spot?  Talent is why we play 10 yard buffers off of WR's giving up the short route?  No, that is coaching. 

[Vandy Vol]

How did LSU do in their next couple of years after that 5 loss season?

LSU was the only team since 1992 (prior to Auburn this year) to go 8-5 after their 2007 NC.

As far as LSU's seasons subsequent to the 8-5 season, that's not what is being discussed here.  Unless, of course, you have a flux capacitor and a Delorean which have allowed you to compare Auburn's 2012 and 2013 seasons to LSU's 2009 and 2010 seasons.

Regardless, the point here is that this season has had an effect on your recruiting for this year.  What happens over the next couple of seasons is not only unknown, but isn't really relevant to the issue of current recruits and why they aren't rolling in like some of you want.

And just who the fuck do you think you are to come on here and talk to us about shitty seasons?

Someone who can look at your season with an outsider's perspective like most recruits have.

[Snaggletiger]

As for Roof, no he didn't have 1/3'rd or 41% of the talent he had last year.  Last year was a senior dominated D with one very, very disruptive player.  And they still gave up 30+ points 4 times.  He sucked ballz with or without talent..period. 

[Vandy Vol]

That makes no sense. You act like our blaming the defensive coordinator for having a shitty defense is ludicrous.

No.  What I am saying is that, from a recruit's perspective, they don't really care who your DC was.  What they saw was a shitty defense, and that hurts Auburn in their eyes.  Period.

Blame the defense on whatever you want to blame it on.  Your blame may be rightly placed, or it may be subjectively imposed in an attempt to make yourself feel better about the team and their prospects in the future.  My only point is that a shitty season, regardless of the cause, is going to impact a recruit's opinion on the team.

Additionally, let's not act like the prospect of having a new, yet to be identified DC is some sort of selling point to a recruit.  While getting rid of Roof may alleviate some of your problems, recruits have no idea who this new DC will be or how he will perform.  You're asking recruits to walk into an unknown situation, and that's not exactly a positive.

Then, you insinuate it's bad because we have no talent.

Again, no.  I acknowledged that Auburn had successful recruiting for the past several years.  All I said in regard to talent was that despite having good recruiting classes, the QB situation was horrendous this year, and the team's offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.  The defense also didn't do so hot despite great recruiting.  If you can't agree that the QB situation was horrendous, that the offense floundered, and that the defense did poorly, then there's obviously some rose-tinted bias going on here.

Is it because of a lack of talent?  One would think not, given the level of recruiting in recent years.  But I don't call curling up into the fetal position "talent."  Is it because of coaching?  Maybe...we haven't really seen these players under a new DC and a new OC who have had time to coach them.  But yet again, my only point is that shitty seasons affect recruiting.

Place the blame for that shitty season wherever you like, but recruits still see a shitty season.  Everything can't be blamed on the media when there have been obvious faults elsewhere.

[JR4AU]

No.  What I am saying is that, from a recruit's perspective, they don't really care who your DC was.  What they saw was a shitty defense, and that hurts Auburn in their eyes.  Period.

Blame the defense on whatever you want to blame it on.  Your blame may be rightly placed, or it may be subjectively imposed in an attempt to make yourself feel better about the team and their prospects in the future.  My only point is that a shitty season, regardless of the cause, is going to impact a recruit's opinion on the team.

Additionally, let's not act like the prospect of having a new, yet to be identified DC is some sort of selling point to a recruit.  While getting rid of Roof may alleviate some of your problems, recruits have no idea who this new DC will be or how he will perform.  You're asking recruits to walk into an unknown situation, and that's not exactly a positive.

Again, no.  I acknowledged that Auburn had successful recruiting for the past several years.  All I said in regard to talent was that despite having good recruiting classes, the QB situation was horrendous this year, and the team's offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.  The defense also didn't do so hot despite great recruiting.  If you can't agree that the QB situation was horrendous, that the offense floundered, and that the defense did poorly, then there's obviously some rose-tinted bias going on here.

Is it because of a lack of talent?  One would think not, given the level of recruiting in recent years.  But I don't call curling up into the fetal position "talent."  Is it because of coaching?  Maybe...we haven't really seen these players under a new DC and a new OC who have had time to coach them.  But yet again, my only point is that shitty seasons affect recruiting.

Place the blame for that shitty season wherever you like, but recruits still see a shitty season.  Everything can't be blamed on the media when there have been obvious faults elsewhere.

Do you seriously think you have any insight whatsoever in to what "recruits" (as a whole) or any individual recruits sees and thinks?  Any at all?  You seriously think a recruit just goes to a game on a visit and sees a lackluster performance and says to himself: "yep, they suck, I'm not coming here".  You really think it's that simple a process? 

[dallaswareagle]

This may be a poor example of talent to team but here it goes. A couple of years ago my softball team went out to Steamboat Springs Co to compete in a tournament. We were at best a marginal team but had been together all year and place 7th out of 145 teams. The following year the team as a whole stayed together but when it came time for us to go to the tournament we dropped who we thought were our weak players and picked up some studs. We went 2-2 and had a bad time. 

The first year we just had a much better (team) second year we had much better players but did alot worst.

My point is that I would rather have a bunch of guys that want to be here and gel as a team. That is the coaches job to make that happen.

[AWK]

No.  What I am saying is that, from a recruit's perspective, they don't really care who your DC was. What they saw was a shitty defense, and that hurts Auburn in their eyes.  Period.

Blame the defense on whatever you want to blame it on.  Your blame may be rightly placed, or it may be subjectively imposed in an attempt to make yourself feel better about the team and their prospects in the future.  My only point is that a shitty season, regardless of the cause, is going to impact a recruit's opinion on the team.

Additionally, let's not act like the prospect of having a new, yet to be identified DC is some sort of selling point to a recruit.  While getting rid of Roof may alleviate some of your problems, recruits have no idea who this new DC will be or how he will perform.  You're asking recruits to walk into an unknown situation, and that's not exactly a positive.

Again, no.  I acknowledged that Auburn had successful recruiting for the past several years.  All I said in regard to talent was that despite having good recruiting classes, the QB situation was horrendous this year, and the team's offense finished the regular season ranked 104th in the country.  If you can't agree that the QB situation was horrendous and that the offense floundered, then there's obviously some rose-tinted bias going on here.

Is it because of a lack of talent?  One would think not, given the level of recruiting in recent years.  But I don't call curling up into the fetal position "talent."  Is it because of coaching?  Maybe...we haven't really seen these players under a new DC and a new OC who have had time to coach them.  But yet again, my only point is that shitty seasons affect recruiting.

Place the blame for that shitty season wherever you like, but recruits still see a shitty season.  Everything can't be blamed on the media when there have been obvious faults elsewhere.

1.  That statement is terribly wrong.  Recruits 100% care about who the coordinator is/was and sometimes make their decision based soley on that.  I can't tell you how many recruits said they wanted to come to Auburn because of Malzahn's offense.  I.e. Dyer, Reed, Newton, Blake (transferred from UF), etc... Same thing with defense/Chizik/Rocker/Roof.  I would say that is one of the three main things they consider.  A recruit that did not want to go to Auburn because Roof ran a terrible defense might reconsider. 
    Additionally, recruits go to schools all the time and say, "I chose Auburn because they are hurting on defense and I can play right away."  Happens every year.  If it didn't, how would teams get better?  For example, just off the top of my head, Enrique Florence from last years class.  Therefore, it doesn't "hurt Auburn in their (recruits) eyes. Period", it actually does quite the opposite in some cases. 

2.  Of course its a selling point.   "Hi recruit, you know that shitty defense we had last year, well, It's going to be awesome next year.  We fired Roof, our DC who was the problem.  We are going to hire a new spectacular DC that will make Auburn a defensive powerhouse."  New = better = fresh start =high hopes, generally how it works in a game like College Football. 

3.  No, you didn't. The ONLY thing you said in your first post regarding the defensive talent was, "and try your best to explain to everyone that you've got talent and that the defense will be better once a new DC is in."  That statement insinuates that we don't have talent, no matter what you say after the fact.   

[djsimp]

Hey Vandy, I don't think anyone should be taking an opinion seriously from a gay Commodore especially when it comes to young boys/men.

[Vandy Vol]

Do you seriously think you have any insight whatsoever in to what "recruits" (as a whole) or any individual recruits sees and thinks?  Any at all?  You seriously think a recruit just goes to a game on a visit and sees a lackluster performance and says to himself: "yep, they suck, I'm not coming here".  You really think it's that simple a process?

It wasn't one bad game; it was a statistically bad season.

Aside from that, no, it's not as simple as only looking at the team's performance.  Other factors are considered, yes, but let's not look past the bad season and solely accuse the media for not meeting your expectations in recruiting.

[JR4AU]

It wasn't one bad game; it was a statistically bad season.

Aside from that, no, it's not as simple as only looking at the team's performance.  Other factors are considered, yes, but let's not look past the bad season and solely accuse the media for not meeting your expectations in recruiting.

I'm sorry, did I pass out drunk and wake up on Feb 2?  Your entire line of shit in this thread is full of dumbass.