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2012 Projected starting lineup

The Prowler

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2011, 02:05:14 AM »
Since all we have left of this season is the sequel/prequel to the Clemson game...let's look ahead a little.

Gone will be the starting Turnstiles Tackles, Quindarius Carr at one WR spot, Eltoro Freeman at MLB and Neiko shoes on fire Thorpe at safety.  I believe the long snapper too (sorry snaggle).  I can't think of any Juniors other than possibly Blake and Lutzenkirchen that would be a threat to leave early.  Let's assume, for the moment, that they stick around for their Senior years also.  Who gets the starting nod in your mind going into 2012?

My projection:
OFFENSE
QB - Kyle Frazier (So)
RB - Michael Dyer  (Jr)
HB - Phillip Lutzenkirchen  (Sr)
WR - Emory Blake  (Sr)
WR - Trovon Reed  (rSo)
WR - Travante Stallworth (Sr)
LT - Will Latu (Jr)
LG - Eric Mack (rSo)
C - Reese Dismukes (So)
RG - John Sullen (rSr)
RT - Greg Robinson (rFr)

DEFENSE
DE -  Corey Lemonier (Jr)
DT -  Gabe Wright (So)
NG -  Jeff Whitaker (Jr)
DE -  Craig Sanders (Jr)
WLB -  Jawara White (So)
MLB -  Jake Holland (Jr)
SLB -  Daren Bates (Sr)
CB -  T'Sharvan Bell (Sr)
CB -  Chris Davis (Jr)
FS -  Erique Florence (So)
SS -  Jermaine Whitehead (So)


Again in 2012...the main concerns for the team will be at quarterback, offensive line, linebacker and safety. 

FTFY
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djsimp

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2011, 08:45:24 AM »
FTFY

I would have to think Westerman would be in there considering all the reports of how nasty he is on the OL.
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JR4AU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2011, 09:18:47 AM »
Quote
LT - Will Latu (Jr)
LG - Eric Mack (rSo)
C - Reese Dismukes (So)
RG - John Sullen (rSr)
RT - Greg Robinson (rFr)

And, for the record, I don't think youth is an excuse with this unit, or one like it.  A RFr and a True Fr. are two different animals.  2 Fall camps, an offseason conditioning and workout, and a spring training should make a huge difference.  It's not 4 Sr and a Jr like 2010, but it's a damn sight better than starting 2 true Fr. 
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Godfather

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2011, 10:42:23 AM »
And, for the record, I don't think youth is an excuse with this unit, or one like it.  A RFr and a True Fr. are two different animals.  2 Fall camps, an offseason conditioning and workout, and a spring training should make a huge difference.  It's not 4 Sr and a Jr like 2010, but it's a damn sight better than starting 2 true Fr.
Agree...my point with Kiehl
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CCTAU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2011, 01:43:58 PM »
Agree...my point with Kiehl

Really?
So you are saying that a 2nd yr QB and a 2nd yr OL should be able to be equally effective because they both have a year's worth experience?

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2011, 01:58:50 PM »
Really?
So you are saying that a 2nd yr QB and a 2nd yr OL should be able to be equally effective because they both have a year's worth experience?
No but what I am saying is that by having another year within the system, growing both mentally and physically and learning said system that yes more success is to be expected. I wouldn't expect them to get worse.  Like I said if Kiehl comes out and stinks it up next year...well I guess we'd be... how do you say....fucked!
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JR4AU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2011, 02:15:30 PM »
Really?
So you are saying that a 2nd yr QB and a 2nd yr OL should be able to be equally effective because they both have a year's worth experience?

I don't think he means that.  QB is a harder position to play.  But the year in the system, and off-season will help both. 
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Xanusus

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2011, 03:55:36 PM »
Based on returning talent we *should* do no less than a two loss season. Unfortunately we have a major dud coaching our corners and another guy whose primary position is linebackers coaching our safeties. I honestly don't think Roof is the real problem. Our real problem is Lolley and it's screwing everything up. If we simply fire that guy and get someone in here who knows how to coach fundamentals we'll be ok.

Since it appears Roof is staying I'd like to see him moved from the sidelines to the press box so he can scheme better(Lolley currently does that and we're awful). Then, move Thigpen to linebackers and allow Roof to implement his defense rather than Chizik's. Spend some time with Malzahn in the offseason and stress that we need to put the ball in Dyer's hands minimum 25 times a game. Ask Frazier or Pike whichever one wins the starting job to manage the offense and give them high percentage pass plays to work with..like quick slants, TE release in the flats, and RB out of the backfield dump offs. No more screens for 75% of our passing. We do it too much and teams cheat to it. Our pulling schemes need work also. Our poor OL play is partially a product of this convoluted and ineffective offense we run. We have way too many plays with OL's having to run from one side of the line to the other to make a block so that the play will work and we leave too many outside pass rushers uncovered by design when we only seem to have long developing pass plays that require three fakes before the ball can be thrown.  In short: different offensive philosophy = better OL play. 

IF we can get some real coaching for our DB's we'll be fine may even return to the defenses of old. Our main issue on defense the past three years has been our terrible scheme compounded with the inability of our Dbacks. Run defense has been good for the most part until they finally cave in games after our DB's are giving up pass after pass.

If we can fix the offensive play calling and get a competent Db coach we'll be fine maybe even back in the title game.
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djsimp

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2011, 04:08:30 PM »
Based on returning talent we *should* do no less than a two loss season. Unfortunately we have a major dud coaching our corners and another guy whose primary position is linebackers coaching our safeties. I honestly don't think Roof is the real problem. Our real problem is Lolley and it's screwing everything up. If we simply fire that guy and get someone in here who knows how to coach fundamentals we'll be ok.

Since it appears Roof is staying I'd like to see him moved from the sidelines to the press box so he can scheme better(Lolley currently does that and we're awful). Then, move Thigpen to linebackers and allow Roof to implement his defense rather than Chizik's. Spend some time with Malzahn in the offseason and stress that we need to put the ball in Dyer's hands minimum 25 times a game. Ask Frazier or Pike whichever one wins the starting job to manage the offense and give them high percentage pass plays to work with..like quick slants, TE release in the flats, and RB out of the backfield dump offs. No more screens for 75% of our passing. We do it too much and teams cheat to it. Our pulling schemes need work also. Our poor OL play is partially a product of this convoluted and ineffective offense we run. We have way too many plays with OL's having to run from one side of the line to the other to make a block so that the play will work and we leave too many outside pass rushers uncovered by design when we only seem to have long developing pass plays that require three fakes before the ball can be thrown.  In short: different offensive philosophy = better OL play. 

IF we can get some real coaching for our DB's we'll be fine may even return to the defenses of old. Our main issue on defense the past three years has been our terrible scheme compounded with the inability of our Dbacks. Run defense has been good for the most part until they finally cave in games after our DB's are giving up pass after pass.

If we can fix the offensive play calling and get a competent Db coach we'll be fine maybe even back in the title game.

I think you've put a lot of thought into this and really I can't disagree with any of this except that I am not has high on Roof as you seem to be.
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Xanusus

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2011, 04:29:02 PM »
I'm not high on Roof. I'd rather have someone else as coordinator. I just don't think he's the primary reason for our terribad defense.
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JR4AU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2011, 04:41:48 PM »
Based on returning talent we *should* do no less than a two loss season. Unfortunately we have a major dud coaching our corners and another guy whose primary position is linebackers coaching our safeties. I honestly don't think Roof is the real problem. Our real problem is Lolley and it's screwing everything up. If we simply fire that guy and get someone in here who knows how to coach fundamentals we'll be ok.

Lolly is the same guy that was coaching DBs from 2000-2003 in which Auburn's pass defense was ranked 41st, 53rd, 26th, and 23rd nationally.  His history absent Roof, is pretty solid.  Since Roof: 57th, 108th, 48th.  His worst work is under Roof.  That 48th rank this season is doesn't reflect the fact that we're 85 in passing efficiency defense.  I've met Lolley, and seen him give a clinic.  I  have no clue what he's like on the field, but he comes across as knowing what he's doing.   

Since it appears Roof is staying I'd like to see him moved from the sidelines to the press box so he can scheme better(Lolley currently does that and we're awful). Then, move Thigpen to linebackers and allow Roof to implement his defense rather than Chizik's.

I'm going to be clear here, I don't know what scheme we run defensively other than a standard "4-3 Over" scheme.  It's schematically sound.  I know we run the standard coverages: Man, Cov 2, Cov 3, Combo.  Beyond that, I don't know details.  What is it about scheme that you see that you think is flawed?

Spend some time with Malzahn in the offseason and stress that we need to put the ball in Dyer's hands minimum 25 times a game.

I can agree with that, but also understand why it didn't happen this year. 

Ask Frazier or Pike whichever one wins the starting job to manage the offense and give them high percentage pass plays to work with..like quick slants, TE release in the flats, and RB out of the backfield dump offs. No more screens for 75% of our passing. We do it too much and teams cheat to it.

The numerous screens were a direct reflection of our inability to go down the field with the ball.  Malzahn has a few quicks in his plan, but not many.  It doesn't fit what he does.  An offense can't do everything at this level.  They have to spend practice time wisely, and choose a few things that compliment each other, and get good at them.  Quicks means installing different protections, and working the routes.  It takes time away from other things, and there are short routes, and RB flares built in to almost every pass concept he uses.  They can't be thrown from the fetal position on the ground. 

Our pulling schemes need work also. Our poor OL play is partially a product of this convoluted and ineffective offense we run.

Convoluted?  Ineffective this season, yes.  What's convoluted about it?

We have way too many plays with OL's having to run from one side of the line to the other to make a block so that the play will work

Not even sure what you're talking about here.   Malzahn has only a few base runs.  Power, Counter, Buck, and Zone.  HS teams run this stuff.  Nothing complicated about it.

 
and we leave too many outside pass rushers uncovered by design when we only seem to have long developing pass plays that require three fakes before the ball can be thrown.  In short: different offensive philosophy = better OL play. 

Backs also play a part in pass protection as does the QB.  The OL can only block 5.  Back picks up #6.  Who that is is dependant upon scheme, and I don't know the pass pro schemes he uses.  Seems to me the back is usually responsible for blitzers off the edge, though at times, they pulled uncovered Guards too, which I'm guessing was a dual read.  The OL was horrible this year.  Teams could easily overload them if they wanted to, and did late in the season.  That's all anybody figured out about us.  The philosophy is "Run to set up the Play Action Pass."  Dye said it yesterday...same thing I've been saying, "The OL play would have been helped by a QB that was a threat to throw the ball."  Nothing wrong with the philosophy IMHO, unless you don't have the players (or mature/seasoned players) to run it, and of course, a QB that can and will make the throws. 



IF we can get some real coaching for our DB's we'll be fine may even return to the defenses of old. Our main issue on defense the past three years has been our terrible scheme compounded with the inability of our Dbacks. Run defense has been good for the most part until they finally cave in games after our DB's are giving up pass after pass.

If we can fix the offensive play calling and get a competent Db coach we'll be fine maybe even back in the title game.

The DBs have been horrid.  It may be Lolley, don't know.  I do know this, under Roof, it's the worst defensive effort in the history of Auburn football, and that includes a year that produced a Lombardi Winner.  That's like having Cam on Defense, and still being mediocre.

You'd be surprised how much better the offense play calling will seem, when we have a competent QB, but I know you are convinced it's about scheme, not players. 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 04:46:39 PM by JR4AU »
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Snaggletiger

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2011, 04:52:05 PM »
Roof has to go along with most of the coaches on that side of the ball.  3 years of the worst defense in Auburn history and it ain't gonna' get better as long as these guys are coached the same way.  The "Tackling" has been a joke since day one of this staffs arrival.  Guys lowering their heads and going airborn for the big hit.  You either tackle right, or get your ass off the field.  That's coaching.  The corners make the same mistakes over and over and over.  "If you let this man get inside of you down on the goal line one more time, you get your ass off the field".  That's coaching.  The safeties have gotten over to help in time 3 times in 4,845 pass attempts over the last 3 years.  That's coaching.  They continue to run a defense that stresses containment (And they don't contain) and that defense has now given up 34 or more points 7 times this year and 30 or more 18 times in the 39 games this staff has coached. 

This group is very young this year.  Yep.  Got it.  But they had Coleman, Blanc, Fairley, Goggans, Bynes, Stevens, Ethridge and on and on the previous two years....and they made the same mistakes and sucked equally as bad.  The difference in last year and this was simply leadership.  Period.  Not coaching.  Not adjustments.  Just a huge group of seniors who eventually looked at each other during games and said, "I'm tired of sucking.  I'm gonna' whip that mother fucker in front of me from here on out."  If Lolley isn't teaching proper technique, it's Roof's job to recognize that shit and see that it gets fixed.  If Pelton.....oh hell, you get the idea.  Nothing short of a new defensive staff with a nasty attitude will do.     
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JR4AU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2011, 04:55:48 PM »
Roof has to go along with most of the coaches on that side of the ball.  3 years of the worst defense in Auburn history and it ain't gonna' get better as long as these guys are coached the same way.  The "Tackling" has been a joke since day one of this staffs arrival.  Guys lowering their heads and going airborn for the big hit.  You either tackle right, or get your ass off the field.  That's coaching.  The corners make the same mistakes over and over and over.  "If you let this man get inside of you down on the goal line one more time, you get your ass off the field".  That's coaching.  The safeties have gotten over to help in time 3 times in 4,845 pass attempts over the last 3 years.  That's coaching.  They continue to run a defense that stresses containment (And they don't contain) and that defense has now given up 34 or more points 7 times this year and 30 or more 18 times in the 39 games this staff has coached. 

This group is very young this year.  Yep.  Got it.  But they had Coleman, Blanc, Fairley, Goggans, Bynes, Stevens, Ethridge and on and on the previous two years....and they made the same mistakes and sucked equally as bad.  The difference in last year and this was simply leadership.  Period.  Not coaching.  Not adjustments.  Just a huge group of seniors who eventually looked at each other during games and said, "I'm tired of sucking.  I'm gonna' whip that mother fucker in front of me from here on out."  If Lolley isn't teaching proper technique, it's Roof's job to recognize that shit and see that it gets fixed.  If Pelton.....oh hell, you get the idea.  Nothing short of a new defensive staff with a nasty attitude will do.   

It would be my preference to to simply clean house on the defensive side of the ball.  Defense, IMHO, is, after getting lined up correctly, and knowing your job, much about attitude and "desire" to be good on defense.  A killer instinct, and we haven't had that under Roof.   An established DC, that is known to be aggressive, IE Coach Boom like, and some young fire pissing ACs.
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AUTiger1

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2011, 05:08:28 PM »
Roof has to go along with most of the coaches on that side of the ball.  3 years of the worst defense in Auburn history and it ain't gonna' get better as long as these guys are coached the same way.  The "Tackling" has been a joke since day one of this staffs arrival.  Guys lowering their heads and going airborn for the big hit.  You either tackle right, or get your ass off the field.  That's coaching.  The corners make the same mistakes over and over and over.  "If you let this man get inside of you down on the goal line one more time, you get your ass off the field".  That's coaching.  The safeties have gotten over to help in time 3 times in 4,845 pass attempts over the last 3 years.  That's coaching.  They continue to run a defense that stresses containment (And they don't contain) and that defense has now given up 34 or more points 7 times this year and 30 or more 18 times in the 39 games this staff has coached. 

This group is very young this year.  Yep.  Got it.  But they had Coleman, Blanc, Fairley, Goggans, Bynes, Stevens, Ethridge and on and on the previous two years....and they made the same mistakes and sucked equally as bad.  The difference in last year and this was simply leadership.  Period.  Not coaching.  Not adjustments.  Just a huge group of seniors who eventually looked at each other during games and said, "I'm tired of sucking.  I'm gonna' whip that mother fucker in front of me from here on out."  If Lolley isn't teaching proper technique, it's Roof's job to recognize that shit and see that it gets fixed.  If Pelton.....oh hell, you get the idea.  Nothing short of a new defensive staff with a nasty attitude will do.   

Agree, it's year #3 and the only improvement we saw was on the line last year.  Fairley finally became who we thought he would be.  I credit that to Rocker for lighting a fire under his ass.  Blanc, Clayton, Carter, Goggans, Eguaue and Ford played solid ball.  Solid players and a bad mother fucker on your line can and will work.   Washington was the only one of our DB's last year that was consistently worth a shit.  Did he get beat a couple of times and miss an assignment a few times, yes, did it make him look bad, yes.  For the most part he was a decent CB.  Bynes played solid ball at LB, he was smart but didn't have any speed.  Other than that, no one has really played good solid football on the Defensive side of the ball for us in 3 years.

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Snaggletiger

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2011, 05:23:29 PM »
Agree, it's year #3 and the only improvement we saw was on the line last year.  Fairley finally became who we thought he would be.  I credit that to Rocker for lighting a fire under his ass.  Blanc, Clayton, Carter, Goggans, Eguaue and Ford played solid ball.  Solid players and a bad mother fucker on your line can and will work.   Washington was the only one of our DB's last year that was consistently worth a shit.  Did he get beat a couple of times and miss an assignment a few times, yes, did it make him look bad, yes.  For the most part he was a decent CB.  Bynes played solid ball at LB, he was smart but didn't have any speed.  Other than that, no one has really played good solid football on the Defensive side of the ball for us in 3 years.

I will give crebit where crebit be due.  This defense played at a high level in 3 games in 2010.  Otherwise, they pretty much sucked and did just enough to allow our bad azz offense to score more points.  MSU, LSU and Oregon (They're just so fast) 
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JR4AU

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2011, 05:30:59 PM »
I will give crebit credick where crebit credick be due.  This defense played at a high level in 3 games in 2010.  Otherwise, they pretty much sucked and did just enough to allow our bad azz offense to score more points.  MSU, LSU and Oregon (They're just so fast)

FTFY
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Snaggletiger

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2011, 05:32:38 PM »
FTFY

You have goot credick, bat credick oh no credick at all
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AUTiger1

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2011, 05:34:31 PM »
I will give crebit where crebit be due.  This defense played at a high level in 3 games in 2010.  Otherwise, they pretty much sucked and did just enough to allow our bad azz offense to score more points.  MSU, LSU and Oregon (They're just so fast)

I thought the front 4 played good solid ball and we got solid play from MLB........everywhere else, yeah not so much.   We were 14th in Rush Defense at the end of the year last year giving up 117 ypg on the ground.  Pass D we were 110th giving up over 265ypg.  That sucks.
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Xanusus

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2011, 05:43:34 PM »
Lolly is the same guy that was coaching DBs from 2000-2003 in which Auburn's pass defense was ranked 41st, 53rd, 26th, and 23rd nationally.  His history absent Roof, is pretty solid.  Since Roof: 57th, 108th, 48th.  His worst work is under Roof.  That 48th rank this season is doesn't reflect the fact that we're 85 in passing efficiency defense.  I've met Lolley, and seen him give a clinic.  I  have no clue what he's like on the field, but he comes across as knowing what he's doing.

And as soon as he left in 2003 our pass defense improved and remained in the top 15's and 20's until he returned. Lolley has never coached anywhere but high school and Auburn. That should tell you something.

I'm going to be clear here, I don't know what scheme we run defensively other than a standard "4-3 Over" scheme.  It's schematically sound.  I know we run the standard coverages: Man, Cov 2, Cov 3, Combo.  Beyond that, I don't know details.  What is it about scheme that you see that you think is flawed?

No, it's not schematically sound. Ours isn't at least. We run a 4-3 Tampa 2. Four down linemen. 3 lb's. 2 corners and 2 safeties splitting centerfield *supposed to be* 12 yards off the line. Our safeties line up 15 yards deep. Corners are supposed to play press man and jam at the line. It's called the Tampa 2 due to the two safeties who are responsible for the two back halves of coverage and because the middle lb is responsible for the middle deep zone while the two safeties are supposed to help the corners on their respective halves of the field. Corners jam receivers on the line and pass off to their man to safeties at 12 yards. Our alignment back there is horrendous.  Sometimes we have safeties too deep. Sometimes inexplicably we have CORNERS! 7-12 yards off the ball. It wasn't until game 4 when our LB finally knew what his responsibility was on that Holland pick. I'm not going to get into a book about what's wrong but most of it concerns our corner play and safeties being aligned too far back. Our corners don't know how to jam or are not lined up TO jam. They put our safeties in bad coverage circumstances(see the LSU TD's).  Enough of the explanation. Here is all you need to see. http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=7119168&categoryid=2378529

I'm done explaining. Don't feel like really getting into this with you since it's obvious you wanted a fight over this.








 


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djsimp

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Re: 2012 Projected starting lineup
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2011, 05:45:31 PM »
I would also like to add along with some possible coaching changes is having some LB's bigger and badder...or gooder. Man would I love to see Sanders and Owens playing that position. I know this has already been brought up but I just wanted to re-iferate.
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